What's wrong with Opium?

[KickMcCann]

I don't get it. What is wrong with Opium? I know Marx said that religion is the opium of the masses, and other people have compared other things to opium, making it seem negative. I've never tried opium and I don't intend to, but if someone else wants to do it, so what? I realize opium is an analogy for a pleasurable thing when used in the above context, so what's wrong with pleasure? Life is hard, find some pleasure, as long as you don't hurt anyone else.

[LeninCCCP]

It is very addictive and fucks you up, it ends up killing you in the end because its never as good as the first time.

[ratm545]

my friend just tried opium a couple weeks ago, nothing's happened to him, he hasn't done it again or tried to beat his first high, being addicted is a mental state

[Dhul Fiqar]

Well, there's nothing inherently wrong about opium, it's a naturally occurring substance.

The problem is that if humans consume it they feel an incredibly euphoric high, and we've never been good at resisting quick and easy pleasure. The reason Marx used the analogy, in my oppinion, is that it pacifies and essentially breaks your spirit to be constantly seeking short-term pleasure. Once you get used to opium you can't imagine life without it, yet it's thwarting your long term goals by keeping you passive and preoccupied.

That being said, I don't think it was a complete indictment of opium OR religion. Read the complete quote below and you'll see that even though both destroy you and those around you in the long term, opium and religion at least make life bearable for a short time. To me that's not "all bad"

--- G. Raven

[redstar2000]

It's really great to see someone use a whole quote from Marx instead of just a fragment. Thanks!

Have we humans "never been good at resisting quick and easy pleasure"? Wouldn't it at least be fairer to say that SOME humans have never been good at resisting quick and easy pleasure?

Then, is "quick and easy pleasure" somehow inferior to "slow and difficult pleasure", whatever that might be?

Can opium "fuck you up"? It sure can! So can alcohol, cocaine, and reckless driving! In fact, it's really hard to think of ANY human activity that, when carried to extreme excess or when carried out in a totally inappropriate context, won't result in getting you "fucked up" and probably dead as well.

But try to be clear about the real causes, instead of just blaming the inanimate object. Opium will, normally, cause neither death nor injury; if you smoke a whole lot and then go for a drive...well, I sure ain't riding with you.

Of course, opium and its derivitives (morphine and heroin) are addicitive...after a few weeks, you will feel pretty lousy if you don't have your daily dose. (By the way, how bad is withdrawal? Like a really nasty case of the flu.) If "addiction" bothers you as an IDEA, then you really need to stay away from a lot of things: not just opium, but tobacco, coffee, colas, teas, weed, cocaine in all its forms, central nervous system stimulents and depressants, and probably a fair number of prescription medicines. Withdrawal symptoms from some of these substances are less severe than from others...but it's been widely reported that at least some people have had considerable difficulty quitting EACH of them.

Speaking personally, I don't think there is anything "wrong" about ANY "quick and easy pleasure" enjoyed in moderation and in appropriate circumstances, nor do I think there is any RELIABLE evidence to show that any of the pleasurable drugs are physically harmful when enjoyed in moderation. If you become "addicted", so what? We're all "addicted" to oxygen, water, and food...without them we'll die and fairly quickly. Does that mean we should get really OBSESSIVE about it? Walk around all day pissing and moaning: oh, I'm a junkie! I just don't see the SENSE in that approach to life.

Frankly, I would rather the whole world be addicted to opium and atheism than the other way around. Religion (in the Middle East, for one place) kills more people in a week right now than all the people who've ever died from "drug addiction".

[Black Jesus]

It is very addictive and fucks you up, it ends up killing you in the end because its never as good as the first time.

I think your take on opium is a bit over exaggerated. Yes, it is addicting but no it doesn't end up killing you because "its never as good as the first time." I have tried opium in moderation on numerous occasions and felt no need to use it any further. However, I still believe that it can be harmful if abused.


being addicted is a mental state

While some addictions may be just mental (i. e. marijuana or cocaine), opiates are mentally as well as physically addicting.

[Black Jesus]

It is very addictive and fucks you up, it ends up killing you in the end because its never as good as the first time.

I think your take on opium is a bit over exaggerated. Yes, it is addicting but no it doesn't end up killing you because "its never as good as the first time." I have tried opium in moderation on numerous occasions and felt no need to use it any further. However, I still believe that it can be harmful if abused.


being addicted is a mental state

While some addictions may be just mental (i. e. marijuana or cocaine), opiates are mentally as well as physically addicting.

[LeninCCCP]

I know its over exxagerated ive been told this many times so i believe it i guess, and i just wanted to say that poison oak is naturally occuring but you souldnt rub it all over yourself...just a thought.

[redstar2000]

But, LeninCCCP, suppose it felt REALLY GOOD to rub poison oak all over your skin...as long as you didn't do it all the time, would it be so bad? Your skin would heal up after each use, and so on. It's a weird example, I know, but I think the principle still applies. No small pleasures should be avoided just because they might have undesirable consequences; life has an undesirable consequence...namely, death.

Small pleasures should be avoided for only ONE reason; to YOU they are NOT pleasurable.

[trebboR]

There's nothing wrong with small pleasures. I smoke weed every weekend. But am I dead or fucked up? Am I adicted? No. I just like smoking al little weed, get relaxed with my friends, go to a bar, chat a little with more friends, drink a few beers, chat some more. Then I go home again and I go to my bed. Nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, my older brother, he smokes so much weed (about 4 joints a day) that he thinks he cannot sleep anymore without being high. Offcourse that ain't true. But he just thinks he sleeps better when being high (that is true, but you can offcourse sleep without it too). Now that's fucked up. I've seen people that I know gettin fucked up from LSD, XTC, Cocaine, and shit like that. But I don't do that, I did XTC once and that was only one time and no more. I'm not a junkie, I just enjoy a quick and small pleasure by smoking weed and I ain't fucked up.
Conclusion: drugs ain't bad, as long as you know what you do, don't take it too often and keep your fricking hands away from chemical shit like cocaine and heroine.

[Black Jesus]

rugs ain't bad, as long as you know what you do, don't take it too often and keep your fricking hands away from chemical shit like cocaine and heroine.

This has got to be the one thing I absolutely hate that people say about drugs. The "Drugs A, B, and C are fine, but Drugs X, Y, and Z are horrible and make you a junkie," attitude. Almost all drugs can be used safely and effectively if the user practices moderation and knowledgeable about the substance he/she is using.

Another point that sticks out at me is when people say something advocating "natural drugs," and how they are the only truly safe ones. Well for you information, cocaine is a naturally occuring alkaloid derived from the coca plant, and heroin while made synthetically today, is still derived from the morphine in the papaver somniferum (poppy) plant. All drugs whether natural or synthetic are based on a chemical that reacts with the brain. For marijuana it would be the THC as well as other cannabinoids in the buds which cause the high, but regardless of that fact, these chemicals can still be made synthetically. Also, there are many very unsafe "natural" drugs such as the Datura plant which can easily lead to death without proper use.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that all drugs, naturally occuring or synthetically made, can be used safely if the user has the knowledge and skills to do so. Perhaps if the government focused more on harm reduction and education, people in the United States (and the world) would not have such a negative view of mind altering substances.

[Palmares]

Using drugs for pleasure is foolish, but not necessarily wrong. If you wish to use it, by all means do it. One can make their own choices, nevertheless I believe drugs produce a fantasy world, in the sense that it creates fake pleasure. It does not bring happiness, it does not bring love, but can cause contrary feelings. It is not a matter of right or wrong, simply of opinion.

"There is only one reason why men become addicted to drugs, they are weak men. Only strong men are cured, and they cure themselves."
--Martin H. Fischer

[Panamarisen]

Too many drugs ("natural" or not) are so GOOD they become a problem at the end. And that´s why we all got to be careful about them. Specially because then they may avoid ower will power...
Besides, we all have to understand that EACH ONE OF US is a different individual. It means that what´s good for you, what´s OK for you doesn´t mean it´s good or OK for me (as the System wants all of us to believe).
We all got to care for the other one, and at the same time, in the same way, care for ourselves.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Cobra]

Drugs make people feel happy when they should feel depressed. If all exploited people used drugs to escape the suffering that capitalist bring to them, how do yu think any progress could be made?

Sure, they could just take their "happy pills" and imagine "everything is okay. They dont mind being taken adventage of by the the capitalist. The capitalist give them happy pills."

Drugs are one of the many vices that plague mankind. Many girls become prostitutes because their pimps give them drugs, the same drugs that they are adicted too. The Capitalist are often our pimps, and we comrades, are their prostitutes. Drugs must be completely abolished! They are nothing more than a capitalist weapon used to create exploitation!

Could you imagine Che hiding in a corner smoking drugs while his comrades are being shot? Of course not! A true revolutionary does not use drugs!

[Menshevik]

There is no such thing as using opium in moderation. After smoking opium all you can do is lie down and pass out. It's not as if you can smoke some and go for a ride. Opium was like a plague in the 19th century. People would smoke opium to either take a lift from reality or, more commonly, to act as a pain killer. Europeans knowingly dumped opium on the Chinese because they knew it was incredibly addictive and they could make a killing. Of course, after years of an opium addiction, you will ultimately overdose and fall into a permanent coma. There is nothing fun and innocent about opium. And besides, why would someone smoke opium when they can do heroine mroe easily and get the desired affect?

[Guardia Bolivariano]

Even do people might love getting high opium only makes some good for people that have a terminla illness and need something to kill the pain.But opium kills your brain and purchasing It helps the most dangerous capitalist the ones that kill for money.

[honest intellectual]

Quote: from Cthenthar on 1:03 am on Oct. 29, 2002
nevertheless I believe drugs produce a fantasy world, in the sense that it creates fake pleasure. What is 'fake pleasure'? Pleasure exissts only as your perception of it, therefore if something feels pleasurable, it is pleasurable. There is no 'real' or 'fake'

[genniva]

Drugs take you away from the reality. If you want to make this reality, here, better for all of us, you should stay away from the false paradise of both opium and religion, as the pleasure you experinece is only inside your head.

Revolution must be accomplished in this reality, the objective reality, and in order to achieve that, you need to stay at least sober enough to perceive and understand your surroundings.

Yes, I've tried drugs you've never heard of, and yes, I do believe in . . . umm a higher power. But yet, I'd say, opium (religion) makes you, as an individual, feel better -- while actual social changes would make most of the people sharing this reality with you feel better.

That's what the quote meant, I suppose.

[Panamarisen]

"Reality" as we usually understand it is the perception of the outside world through our senses. What´s not perceived through them doesn´t mean that it is something different from reality.
Drugs -counting with the differences among them- lead you to another PERCEPTION of reality, kind of say, another point of view...
Obviously, when we are dealing with the everyday outside world, we should not be under the effects of drugs.

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[el nino doro]

Quote: from Panamarisen on 5:07 pm on Oct. 30, 2002
"Obviously, when we are dealing with the everyday outside world, we should not be under the effects of drugs.

What about for ppl that take drugs for depression, anxiety, ADD, and other disorders? Depending on the severity of their disorder, they might need the drugs to even go out in public.

Also, what is the scoop on salvia. I've heard that it is a "safer" alternative to weed, whatever that means, but i was wondering if anybody was knowledgable about the stuff.

[che4rev]

The problem with modern psudoliberal thought is that controling every little element of peoples lives is nither liberal nor practical. The anti-drug movement is the most right wing, big brother idea- I cannot believe I am hearing its verses parrotted on a board like this.

He said that Religion is the opium of the masses because the capatalists used it to pacify the people.

[Dhul Fiqar]

Drugs are good, 'mmmkay? :biggrin:

[trebboR]

Quote: from Black Jesus on 1:14 am on Oct. 29, 2002[brThis has got to be the one thing I absolutely hate that people say about drugs. The "Drugs A, B, and C are fine, but Drugs X, Y, and Z are horrible and make you a junkie," attitude. Almost all drugs can be used safely and effectively if the user practices moderation and knowledgeable about the substance he/she is using.

Another point that sticks out at me is when people say something advocating "natural drugs," and how they are the only truly safe ones. Well for you information, cocaine is a naturally occuring alkaloid derived from the coca plant, and heroin while made synthetically today, is still derived from the morphine in the papaver somniferum (poppy) plant. All drugs whether natural or synthetic are based on a chemical that reacts with the brain. For marijuana it would be the THC as well as other cannabinoids in the buds which cause the high, but regardless of that fact, these chemicals can still be made synthetically. Also, there are many very unsafe "natural" drugs such as the Datura plant which can easily lead to death without proper use.

I guess the point I am trying to make is that all drugs, naturally occuring or synthetically made, can be used safely if the user has the knowledge and skills to do so. Perhaps if the government focused more on harm reduction and education, people in the United States (and the world) would not have such a negative view of mind altering substances.

BJ,

you say almost every drugs can be used safely as long as you know whats in it. Well knowing whats in it only gives you the confort off knowing that you won't die of it while taking it. But let's take XTC and weed as two kinds of drugs. I took 'em both. I've experienced both of them. With weed, I can smoke as much as I want of it, yesterday, when I went ou, I smoked about 6 joints with friends of mine. If I take 7 XTC pills on an evening, I die. THe morning after (which is right now), I'm fine, I function normally, I can shit on an chair, drink coffe, read the news paper or do what ever I want. If I took XTC yesterday evening, I would be broke right now, couldn't use my muscles correctly, I would be sitting on the bank like a zombie doing nothing, I would think back about yesterday night which was so heavenly (yesterday was great, but nothing beets XTC) but now it ain't heavenly. The day after is fucked up, your hands shake, your cold, you don't wanna eat, you don't want to socialise, you just want to sit on an couch and wait till the day is over. YOu ain't got that with weed. Weed doesn't fuck up your muscles, nerves that much as XTC does. That is the difference between them too, weed makes you feel great and when it's over you feel normal again, when you take XTC you feel heavenly, but when it's over you feel even more fucked up then ebfore and you want to take it again. That is the big difference between drugs. Because you feel fucked up after XTC, you want to take more. Weed (and other soft drugs) don't do that.