was Finland part of the Axis

[fokker-scourge]

correct me if i wrong but i think finland may of been a unoficcial Ally iwth Hitler


thay fought agenst the soviets for a brief time and used german weapons


i dont know if thay were facist but thier planes had blue Swaticas on the wing

sorry i dont know much but anyone eles see this?

[pastradamus]

Originally posted by fokker-[email protected] 9 2005, 03:37 PM
correct me if i wrong but i think finland may of been a unoficcial Ally iwth Hitler


thay fought agenst the soviets for a brief time and used german weapons


i dont know if thay were facist but thier planes had blue Swaticas on the wing

sorry i dont know much but anyone eles see this?
My knowledge of it is that they were not an ally of hitler. but because they fought the USSR they are labelled axis. The germans supplied them with weapons but I believe this was an indirect was of fighting communism

[The Grapes of Wrath]

Yea, you are right, they were. They were affiliated with the Germans during that time and their army was greatly influenced by the German army.

The Finns fought 2 wars with the Soviets during the course of the Second World War. This was the "Winter War", the "Continuation War." These were greatly supported by German advisors, and German weapons. It was good policy for the Germans to have the Finns tie down Soviet forces north of Leningrad, and there was even the possibility of the Finns coming down and surrounding the city wholly, cutting off all supply to the civlians and defenders.

The last war, the "Lapland War" was fougth between Germans and Finns.

Here is a link: Here (http://hkkk.fi/~yrjola/war/finland/summary.html)

This explains better than I, although, it is greatly pro-Finland, and sugarcoats Germany's role in my opinion.

TGOW

[Severian]

There's no "unofficial" about it, Finland was part of the Axis, and of the German-led invasion of the USSR. They call it the "Continuation War" as if it wasn't part of WWII. After the war, some Finns tried to prosecute Mannerheim, who was head of state during the war, for war crimes.

Why do you think there was fighting with German troops in Finnish Lapland when Finland made peace with the USSR? Because there had been German troops in Finland as part of their alliance against the USSR, that's why!

Not a fascist state, no. And during the "Winter War", it was the USSR who was a semi-ally of Germany (Stalin-Hitler pact), and Finland who received aid from the Allies IIRC.

[timbaly]

A few weeks ago I was reading a book on military aircraft of WWII and I notced the swastika on the Finnish planes just as fokker-scourge said. I'm curious to kno if anyone here knows whether it was the Finnish or German government's idea. If I'm not mistaken the planes were not German and only Finns piloted them, so perhaps the Finns weren't forced into it.

[Smirnov]

First of all, about the Finnish swastica. It has no any attitude to Nazi and the faschist Germany. The biue Swastica was the symbol of one of the Prussian noblemen, who, after Finland got independence from Russia after the Great October Socialist Revolution, donated 3 (or more, I can't say exactly) of his planes to the new independent republic. And finns in the gratitude to this man left his symbol and made it the sumbol of their army.
Now, about the Finnish participation in WW2. Of course Finland was THE OFFICIAL ALLY OF GERMANY AND ONE OF THE AXIS COUNTRIES. In fact, it was Stalin who forced Finland to be in the Axis because of the Winter War, in which USSR was the agressor. Why did Stalin began this war? Leningrad, the second biggest city of the USSR and the city of Lenin and Revolution, was too close to the Finnish border and it worried Stalin. So, he asked finns to exchange territories - finns give SU land nar the Leningrad, Stalin gives finns part of Korelia. Finns refused adn Stalin decided to take this land by forse. Thats why finns attacked USSR in 1941 - they wanted to give back their lands. They participated in the Leningrad Blockade, and then Red Army defeated German troops in the region, they joined Allie's. According to the memoires of Soviet people, who lived on the territory, occupied by the finns, even Germans weren't so cruel and bloody.

[timbaly]

Did this Prussian nobleman donate armed war planes?

[Red Rebel]

The Finnish-German relationship was co-belligerant.

Finland in World War II (http://hkkk.fi/~yrjola/war/finland/summary.html)

[Scars]

The Finns were fighting the Soviets, nothing more. They bought weapons and accepted weapons...to fight the Soviets. In fact, if you actually icked upa book, you'd find that towards the end of the war a agreement was reached with Stalin which basically said 'Ok, we'll leave Finland on the condition you go kick the Germans out of Finland' and the Finns did just that. The Finns fought the Soviets, Nazi Germany was just willing to give them stuff to do it with.

Oh and as for the Swastika, the Finns were using that since before WWI. It's not even the same type of swastika.

[Reds]

Hungry and Croatia were part of the Axis also but croatia only was to get indpendance from Yugoslavia.

[Scars]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 11:20 PM
Hungry and Croatia were part of the Axis also but croatia only was to get indpendance from Yugoslavia.
No, Croatia had a hardline fascist leadership who were installed by the Nazis. In return for their servitude and soldiers (there were 2 divisions of Croatians in the Wehrmacht, plus volunteers in the Waffen-SS) they were granted an independent state.

[fernando]

Finland was part of the Axis for a very short moment, but they did receive support from Nazi Germany against the invading (and in my opinion) imperialist Soviet Union. I know this will sound bad in the ear of many of you socialists, but remember that the Soviet superpower was no better than its capitalist counterpart, well maybe a little bit better, but still they invaded countries and tried to take territory/power.

[CrazyModerate]

The SOviet Union made a deal with Germany upon which both the Germans and the Soviets would be allowed to act aggressively as long as they did not attack eachother.

Finland being forced into alliance with Germany was ironically partially Germany's fault.

Out of Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, and Finland, at the time Finland was the most free and democratic, and was simply trying to defend itself.

[Andy Bowden]

I read the invasion of Finland was one of the reasons the Schachtmanites left the USA-SWP. Where do people stand on the winter war? Was it Soviet aggression, or a just defence against fascsim?

[Led Zeppelin]

Was it Soviet aggression, or a just defence against fascsim?


Defence against fascism:


Knowing that war with Germany was inevitable, the Soviet government was extremely worried about Leningrad's security, as it was only 32 kilometres from the Finnish border. On October 14, 1939, Stalin and Molotov sent a memorandum to the Finnish government about the problem of the defence of Leningrad. The Soviet Union wished to be able to `block the access to the Gulf of Finland'. It asked of Finland that it be ceded by lease the Port of Hanko and four islands. To ensure the defence of Finland, it asked for part of the ithmus of Karelia belonging to Finland. In exchange, the Soviet Union would offer to Finland part of Soviet Karelia, twice the size.

Encouraged by Germany, Finland refused. On November 30, 1939, the the Soviet Union declared war on Finland. A few days later, Hitler gave instructions for the coming war with the Soviet Union. Here is one passage:

'On the flanks of our operation we can count on active intervention from Romania and Finland in the war against the Soviet Union.'

Britain and France, worried about not getting caught up in this `strange war', charged headlong into a real war against the Bolshevik menace! In three months, Britain, France, the U.S. and fascist Italy sent 700 planes, 1,500 canons and 6,000 machine guns to Finland, `victim of aggression'.

The French General Weygand went to Syria and Turkey to prepare an attack against the Soviet Union from the South. The French Chief of Staffs prepared to bomb the Baku oilfields. At the same time, General Serrigny cried out:

'In fact, Baku, with its annual oil production of 23 million tons, dominates the situation. If we succeed in conquering the Caucasus, or if these refineries were simply set alight by our air force, the monster would collapse exhausted.'

Even though no shot had been fired against the Hitlerites, despite the fact that they were in a state of war, the French government regrouped an expeditionary force of 50,000 men to fight the Reds! Chamberlain declared that Britain would send 100,000 soldiers.

But these troops were unable to reach Finland before the Red Army defeated the Finnish army: a peace accord was signed on March 14, 1939.

Sources: Petite encyclopédie politique du monde (Rio de Janeiro: Éditions Chanteclair, 1943), p. 136.Falsificateurs de l'Histoire (Brussels: Éditions ABS, 1948), p. 118. Pavel Zhiline, Ambitions et méprises du Troisième Reich, (Moscow: Éditions du Progrès, 1972), p. 74. Jacobsen, op. cit. , vol. 1, p. 118.

The Germano-Soviet Pact (http://www.plp.org/books/Stalin/node131.html#SECTION001210000000000000000)

[Zingu]

Co-belligerant; Finland in the Continuation war did not make any major advances past territory lost to the Soviet Union in the Winter War. Finland refused to help seal off the encirclement of Leningrad because of this.

Bear in mind, even Finnish Communists fought against the Russians; my own great-grandfather; who was a Communist, tried to emigrate in to the USSR in the 1930s was actually arrested and sent to a forced labor camp; he managed to get out and escape back to Finland. Later on, with his nephews (also Communists) volunteered to fight in the Winter War and Continuation war, all three lost their lives in 1944.

It was the Russians who came first to offer peace actually, even if the war continued, Finland could have retreated to the Lake region next to Karelia, which would be a natural defense point, since of the many bottlenecks that the lake region made.

The Russians couldn't advance through nothern Finland effectively at all; it being completely woodland, masses of infantry made little progress, while the Finns and Lapps fought with small unit patrols, snipers and guerillas. The Russians were stupid enough to deploy field trajectory guns and tanks, which were virtually useless in woodlands. The Russian leadership were inspired by the German Blitzkrieg and attempted in Finland; which failed miserably.

The Blue Swastika was a Nordic symbol of good luck; the Finnish Air Force was small; but elite, on average; 25 Russians planes were shot down for every Finnish plane.

Again, the Russians were the ones who offered the peace settlement in 1944, after the Finnish Army mounted a heroic defense at the Ithmus and drove back a major Russian offensive in the Spring of 1944.

Finland was the only country to pay back all of its war debts.

"Nobody respects a country with a poor army, but everyone respects a country with a good army. I raise my toast to the Finnish army."
-Stalin

[Led Zeppelin]

Again, the Russians were the ones who offered the peace settlement in 1944, after the Finnish Army mounted a heroic defense at the Ithmus and drove back a major Russian offensive in the Spring of 1944.

Yes, they offered the peace settlement after they got what they wanted, the goal was never to take over Finland, fact is, the red army crushed the pathetic Finnish army with relative ease, although they did last longer than expected.

I sense a bit of (false) nationalism on your part.

[Guerrilla22]

Finland's government was reformed socialist, pretty much the same is it is today. They were not fascist, however they did side with the Nazis and allow Nazi troops on to their soil.

[norwegian commie]

finnland was part of the axis...
people with suvere damages were sendt to germany,
they recieved weapons and supplies from germany.
they were considered allies of germany.

Lots of norwegian nazis went to finnland to defend it from the commies...

[Edelweiss]

The biue Swastica was the symbol of one of the Prussian noblemen

Source please! I have never heard about the swastika being a Prussian symbol before, and I highly doubt that this is true.

[Scars]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 01:19 PM

The biue Swastica was the symbol of one of the Prussian noblemen

Source please! I have never heard about the swastika being a Prussian symbol before, and I highly doubt that this is true.
The Swastika has been used by many cultures for centuries prior to the NSDAP taking it over in teh 1920s. It WAS used by the Finnish army, but it was a different type to the NSDAP one and had been used since well before teh NSDAP even existed. It probably was used in Prussia, asthe Swastika was a Germanic rune used by the Goths and other Germanic peoples hundreds of years before the NSDAP existed.

[Janus]

Several nations helped out the Finns in their war and volunteers came from more. The war was also important because it led to Hitler's decision to invade the Soviet Union. Hitler had previously belived that the Red Army was extremly formidable but he gained the erroneous belief that the USSR would be a pushover. Just one of the many factors that led to his downfall.