Not quite a Cuban opinion but...

[chaval]

my dear comrades, a while ago i saw a post in which someone asked for a cuban's opinion on che/castro/cuba etc. although I am not Cuban myself (mexican actually) i was there recently in october and was able to converse very much with the locals in Havana since i already speak the language. what i saw in the country was great poverty, and terrible third world conditions, whehter the country is like this due to the system, the blockade or a bit of both is debatable but cuba is no paradise. most peeople that i talked to were not very happy about how things were, especially the ones who still remember the days before '59. we (father and i) stayed with a cuban family who worked a bedandbreakfast type place and before we left he told us of the hardships and the injustices he has had to endure- sadly a reucurring problem in latin america that i am too familiar with. In my opinion Castro has strayed from the dreams that he and his revolutionaries envisioned when they left Mexico on the Granma. our host was not the only one to complain: others through implications or just straightforward comments made it clear that not all was right in their homeland (including educated and skilled people) only once did i hear the greatness of Castro's contemporary world be declared. it seems those who had absolutely nothing got something out of the revolution yet those who had something got pushed down. in Cuba's defense, i believe that thanks to the communist system, a society of hardworking, humble, generous and incredible compassionate people has been formed. as a student majoring in economics, i believe that the culture can be preserved while creating a different economic system that allows for growth, private ownership, investment , and opportunities to better the life of all those taht live because belive me, they need to improve (a pseudo lenin NEPs maybe?). i can definately say though that there is much hope in this island.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 06:00 PM
others through implications or just straightforward comments made it clear that not all was right in their homeland (including educated and skilled people)
Obviously. The question is: did any Cubans share this opinion of yours:


In my opinion Castro has strayed from the dreams that he and his revolutionaries envisioned when they left Mexico on the Granma.

Or did anyone say the opposite?

You mention talking with the self-employed people running your bed & breakfast, also "educated and skilled people", possibly professionals - did you talk with any workers?

[chaval]

i did talk with a few workers, although they didn't really have anything to say about cuba. i did hear one person praise the system. i was in a very old doctor's pharmasy that had been preserved as a sort of museum/attraction. a black woman in late twenties gave us a tour of the place. afterwards another cuban came up to her and started talking about the poeple who used to own the place back before the revolution. he then said that his dad used to know the owner and that he was very racist. the black woman replied by saying that that had all changed thanks to the revolution. apart from that episode no one else praised the system. most of the other workers i talked to only approached us in order to try to sell us cigars, honestly it is the most ridiculous thing to walk down a street and have about five people (jineteros- they can be very pushy) try to sell you cigars. if so many workers are spending there time trying to sell cigars they steal from the factories to tourists for some good money they must not make very much in the first place. for lots of pictures go to www.interam.com/cuba the only thing i was unable to photograph were the cigar factories; you werent allowed to take pictures in there, probably cause those places looked kind of like miniature sweat shops.

[Severian]

What makes you say the jineteros were workers? I had the impression most of the people trying to do business with tourists in the street were people who did that for a living.

[chaval]

hmmm a good point, im sure that a lot do taht sort of thing for a living, but i know some of them worked in the cigar factories. when i went to buy some i was taken in to a housing building where about 6 men were gathered. they brought out a box with cigars and tried to sell them. i overheard one of the men telling another man to go to work since he hadn't gone in a few days. i guess stuff like that led me to believe that just working off the tourists isnt enough. is it even allowed?

[codyvo]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 10:29 PM
you werent allowed to take pictures in there, probably cause those places looked kind of like miniature sweat shops.
I think the reason that pictures weren't allowed is because of the high risk of spies. That is why you don't see any pictures of the recent hurricane damage, because they don't let them have cameras, also, the US media doesn't want you to feel bad for the Cubans.

[Severian]

Their business probably isn't legal. But the police don't arrest people for not having legit jobs or not going to work as far as I know.

[codyvo]

Also, I have heard from an old man that lived in Cuba pre and post revolution, that the majority of the people praise Castro, and even the people that come to america still love Castro personally, they are just unsaitisfied with the living conditions.

[Red Robe Majere]

One of the reasons why it was in poverty was because they get hit with almost every hurricane. I mean America cant keep up with the damage with all the resources america has. imagine what it would be like for an island like Cuba.

[lennonist-leninist]

Originally posted by Red Robe [email protected] 10 2005, 02:50 AM
One of the reasons why it was in poverty was because they get hit with almost every hurricane. I mean America cant keep up with the damage with all the resources america has. imagine what it would be like for an island like Cuba.
The hurricans might be playing a part in the poverty. But there is also a embargo on all cuban products in america. I think this plays a major part in the means of cubas poverty, but im shore many things play a role in cubas poverty line.

[*REVOLUCIÓN*]

I think too that it´s because of the embargo.
The economy of cuba collapsed with the Sovjet
union.
I think the embargo is kind of childish.

P.S chaval, did you go to Santiago de Cuba ?
I´ve been there and it was wonderful.

[chaval]

no i wish i'd gotten to see more, i was only in havana and also we went out to a neraby town but crap i forget the name. its a beautiful place and amazing topography. but ive got a picture of che with his daughter standing in the same place i went to ...it was pretty sweet

[Che1990]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 12:00 AM
It seems those who had absolutely nothing got something out of the revolution yet those who had something got pushed down.
Therefore creating a relatively classless society (i.e. socialism)

If this resulted in poverty, they need to sort it out. But imagine you are Castro; 79 years old, USA breathing down your neck, trying to run a socialist nation effectively...etc.

It can't be easy for the poor guy.

[*REVOLUCIÓN*]

What do you think will happen when Fidel dies ?
Could the us attack then ?

[chaval]

who knows, lets hope the US stays out. theyde turn it into a puerto rico. cuba needs to stay independant and not rely on the US

[Bugalu Shrimp]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 12:00 AM
what i saw in the country was great poverty, and terrible third world conditions,
I have also visited Cuba & Mexico and whilst in Mexico I did see some opulent and grand houses and obviously wealthy people. In other areas I noticed that conditions were worse than the most squalid parts of Havana or Santiago dc.

In Cuba whilst what many of us consider essential items are to them dreamt of luxuries - they face this challenge as a community on the whole united in the daily struggle.


In comparing Mexico with Cuba we notice stark contrasts in class gulf, race relations, education, infant mortality and scientific, athletic and cultural achievment. What both countries have in common are the many would-be emigree's but even in this area Cuba measures very favourably against the poor of Mexico who flee in their thousands not from dictatorship or percieved lack of freedoms but of economic despair.

[Deutsche Ideologie]

Cuba is a welfare moderate Socialist state. It is not Communist or Socialist.

This is why Cuba is not doing as well as it should.

Also it cannot trade with the US.

[Big Boss]

What do you think will happen when Fidel dies ?
Could the us attack then ?

I don't know. If they do, I think countries like Venezuela will come to the aid. If it happens it will not surprise me at all. It will show one more time that the USA goverment is imperialistic, something that has been proven before.


Also it cannot trade with the US.

The US does not want to trade with Cuba at all and does not want other countries to do so. That's the reason for the total trade embargo in the first place.


In comparing Mexico with Cuba we notice stark contrasts in class gulf, race relations, education, infant mortality and scientific, athletic and cultural achievment. What both countries have in common are the many would-be emigree's but even in this area Cuba measures very favourably against the poor of Mexico who flee in their thousands not from dictatorship or percieved lack of freedoms but of economic despair.

That is a good point comrade. This happens in most of the latinamerican countries and is why the imigration problem has increased throughout the years. A lot of the economic despair has to do with corrupted goverments.


i wish i'd gotten to see more

Maybe that's the reason why you did'nt get a general opinion about the Cuban goverment and the reason for their economic problems.


Cuba is a welfare moderate Socialist state. It is not Communist or Socialist.

Can you show some proof of this?

[Deutsche Ideologie]

My only proof is my knowledge of Communism. Cuba is not a Communist state, it is welfare moderate socialist.



"Cuba: Socialist or Revisionist?"
by Andrei Andreiovich Mazenov

In 1959, a popular uprising led by Fidel Castro toppled the Batista dictatorship and is backers, the American imperialist lackeys within Havana. Gangsters and pimps were run out of the country, U.S. holdings and the nation's old businesses were nationalized. When the Americans tried reinvade Cuba AGAIN in 1961, they were crushed outrightly through the sheer force of the Cuban masses, and when the American government has tried to hold Cuba down with its embargo and it various military and political actions against them, the Cuban people have resisted with upmost strength. Because of this, as well as the fact that the Cuban people enjoy wonderful social services and living standards as compared to the rest of the "third world", as well as the fact that most of the nation's industries are under state ownership and the Communist Party of Cuba is in power, it is easy to think that Cuba is a socialist nation. However, when we look deeper into the facts, such an assumption could be seen as rather questionable.

Soon after the Cuban Revolution, the Communist Party of Cuba decided not to dismantle the one-crop sugar economy or carry out a thoroughgoing agrarian revolution in the countryside. They broke key ties to the U.S., but did not break capitalist economic relations characteristic of colonialism. Instead, Castro moved Cuba into a new relationship of dependence--with a new foreign imperialist master, the Soviet Union (which had restored capitalism in the mid-1950s- see my post about the USSR from 1956 to 1991). As the Maoists predicted at the time, this non-revolutionary road had many negative consequences for the Cuban people and for the revolutionary movements of Latin America. Without the thoroughgoing revolutionary transformation of agriculture, Cuban "socialism" basically came to mean doing a better job at running the same old plantations! In fact, Cuba never succeeded in developing socialism- instead of seeing socialism as building up an economy to serve social needs, they only saw the development of profitable forces in order to step up their trade with the USSR in 1963- which laid the ground for the Cuban economy to be driven by profit rather than social need- thus laying the groundwork for a capitalist system.

This was all rooted in Cuba's inability to break free of its dependency on sugar cane. From 1963-1970, the Cuban government attempted to run the economy by direct command from top officials to achieve increased sugar production- something which created an unequal development of productive forces (in other words, most of the country's money was going into sugar production and very little was going into growing other crops and building up other industries that could have been used to help better the people's lives). Cuba worked for "Russian" goals- i.e. accumulating surplus in the most profitable sectors of the economy rather than in an all-around way, based on balanced and simultaneous development of agriculture, light industry, and heavy industry. Castro subordinated everything to sugar production, and by 1965 the Socialist Republic of Cuba was a fully state-capitalist nation that was imperialized by the USSR.

In 1965, to better trade with the USSR, Cuba adopted the same economic calculus formulated by the Soviet revisionists during the Kosygin Reforms of 1965. Basically, this form of economic theory formulates economic plans by weighing possible profit and loss, as well as simulating free markets and applying market-capitalist criteria at every level, while maintaing state ownership over the most basic means of production. An interesting thing to note is that while all of these theories were immediately and completely implemented in Cuba, they were not fully implemented in the Soviet Union until Gorbachev's perestroika- so, in a sense, the Cubans had perestroika before the Soviets did!

At the First Congress of the Communist Party of Cuba in 1975, it was declared that "The peso should control all economic activity." This declared that accumulating capital was the sole purpose of the nation's economy- admitting, basically, that they were no longer socialist! The Worker's Councils in Cuban workplaces are largely inactive and forgotten; as one of Cuba's economic planning board leaders said to one researcher in the late 1980's, "We do not discuss balance of payments problems with factory workers." In 1980 the Cuban government gave their managers the right to hire and fire freely as well as determine the basic modes of production within the factories, workplaces, etc. The managers pays became far higher than the workers with far less work on their part- something that points to the rise of a new bourgeoisie within the state and party, something which Mao Tse-Tung observed when capitalism was restored by Khrushchev and other counterrevolutionaries within the CPSU in the USSR in 1956.

Some argue that without producing sugar cane for the Soviet Union and other Eastern Bloc nations that Cuba would have collapsed economically a long time ago, but the sugar industry itself (which was originally built up intending to get more money to build the nation) is the driving factor in Cuba's economic disasters; it has only brought them increased dependency (be it with the USSR or with Western Europe). 1/3 of Cuba's economy is devoted to the sugar cane industry- and 75% of arable land is devoted to cane (while arable land is decreasing due to soil exhaustion). Imagine if the Cubans had instead tried to carry out land reform and used more land for livestock and growing a rich variety of other foods which they have shown to be very capable of growing! Imagine how much better off the Cuban people would be and how much closer they might be to self-sufficiency! What prevents Cuba from developing socialism isn't a lack of natural resources, but the simple fact that it continues to allow commodity relations, capital, and profit to determine their economy- and because of this, Cuba is dependant on importing and exporting most of what it produces, trapping it as a victim of imperialism.

"Imperialism?! What do you mean by imperialism?!" you may say. It's true- Cuba's sugar is useless without imperialist trade transforming it into capital to produce more sugar (instead of that money going to help develop other industries and overall boost Cuba's economy). Castro did not achieve economic independence or national liberation; if Cuba had burned their canefields, distributed the land to the masses, and built of industry and agriculture in an all-around even way that served the needs of the people, it would have achieved national liberation and socialism. Unfortunately, it did not, and from 1959-1991 Cuba was dependent on Soviet social-imperialism and today is dependent on Western Europe and many other parts of the world into keep up these imperialist production relations.

Many people argue that nevertheless the Cuban goverment has brought forth a better life for the people with its amazing welfare state and social services. Well, that's all fine and good, but social services does not a socialist system make! Sweden is much like Cuba, but nobody's under the delusion that Sweden is a worker's state. Cuba does have a high life expectancy of 73, one of the best health care systems in the world, the lowest infant mortality rate in Latin America, and a literacy rate of 99-100%. And yet...

The Cuban people have a rather high suicide rate (21.7 per 100,000 deaths) and their average diet is, nutritionally, very poor (thanks to the lack of agrarian land reform). Because of this diet, the Cubans have trouble with many health problems such as heart disease, cancer, obesity, etc.- things that the United States has a big problem with! Most Cuban families live in the same home or village they did when Batista was in power- something that shows how little social transformation has occurred in Cuba since 1959. And personally, I find it rather suspicious that Cuba ha the same percentage of its population in prison as the U.S. (30,000 out of 10.36 million), and sometimes that figure is higher! The Soviet Union's prison population was never that high during the genuinely-socialist Stalin administration. Not to mention the fact that the government encourages private construction and private ownership of housing, something that Castro seems to have learned a bit from good ol' Maggie Thatcher...

Going back to the question of imperialism in Cuba, some people say that Soviet aid is not necessarily social-imperialism. Well, that's true- the People's Republic of China was aided by the Soviet Union during the 1950's, but always used that aid in an all-around way that eventually allowed them to become self-sufficient. Soviet aid to Cuba took 3 forms: aid for particular projects, subsidies in the form of favorable prices for import and export commodities, and balance of payments loans to cover the difference between was Cuba exports and its import needs. Soviet developmental aid was always the smallest component of Soviet aid, amounting to $883.5 million in 1986. It is true, as some argue, that the Soviet Union paid Cuba far above the world market price, but less that 20% of the world's sugar was (and still is) sold at that price! The U.S. does the exact same thing to places like the Philippines and Haiti, but certainly not out of benevolence or in order to help those nation's economies! Long-term above-market contract-price contract arrangements are advantageous because they secure an assured quality and quantity of sugar at an assured time, which is of great importance for the continuous operation of vast markets. Even the Cuban Central Bank itself admitted that "Soviet aid to Cuba conceals Soviet extraction of Cuban surplus value"- something that blatantly admits that this ain't simply trade between two socialist nations!

The USSR's loans to cover Cuba's negative balance of trade ($5 billion) were on unequal terms and were on the exact terms of America's old loans during the Batista era. Even the Soviet-Cuban oil trade was imperialistic too: Cuba imported more oil than it needed, but used all of it for re-exporting at world market prices to Europe, Africa, Asia, etc. so that it could pay off its debts to the USSR. It paid for the oil by selling 3/4 of its sugar to the USSR- which meant that 56.25% of Cuba's economic output went to the USSR instead of its own people! This uneven trade relation still continues today, with the former Soviet republics and Western European/E.U. nations continuing to do the exact same thing to Cuba- in fact, Cuba gets most of its oil that it uses not from its own oil wells or from the former USSR; it has to import from other Latin American nations such as Venezuela because of the vampiric imperialist relations it has trapped itself in. In 1988 alone, Cuba's debt to U.S.-bloc Western European nations such as the U.K., France, (West) Germany, etc. reached $5.7 billion. Cuba's oil and non-Soviet sugar sales were (and still are) based on the U.S. dollar and the North American/European Union market despite the U.S. embargo- something that has made the Cuban economy basically dependent on capitalist nations and allowed it accumulate one of the highest debts in the "Third World". This only has resulting in extending the reproduction of dependent relations, and has moved the "Socialist" Republic of Cuba farther and farther away from genuine socialism.

Since the fall of the Eastern Bloc nations, Cuba has decided to make tourism account for 40% of its present export earning. This means more mooney is going into the profitable (notice that rather capitalist word coming back in again?) tourist industry rather than going to serve the needs of the Cuban masses. Even prostitution, the exploitation and sexual objectification of women, is allowed by the Cuban government in some tourist areas. What kind of socialist nation is that?! Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, and Mao all clearly stated that the purpose of production under socialism should be to serve the people at ALL TIMES and do EVERYTHING for them, instead of basing the economy on profit and "supply/demand" bourgeois economics. If the law of value determines what gets produced and how, capitalist exploitation will be reproduced. Social inequalities will be considered too costly to overcome and social inequality, economic injustice, and political oppression will stay in place. This is why Cuba has never become genuinely socialist and it is why it depended on the social-imperialist/state-capitalist Soviet Union to bail it out all the time from 1959 to 1991.

Castro constantly praised Gorbachev and adapted Cuba's economy to his policies; if the Soviet-Cuban trade partnership were simply a socialist trade partnership, Cuba wouldn't have had to change its economy alongside the USSR's in order to survive! Cuba's entire army was for decades dependent on the USSR and aided in the Soviet invasions of Eriteria and Angola. Many people defend Cuba's resignation to social-imperialism saying that without it that the USA would have invaded them again and this time succeeded. But after the Bay of Pigs incident, the USA was rather demoralized in terms of Cuba, and it was too busy protecting its interests in Vietnam, the Dominican Republic, and many of its other Cold War disputes; thus it is doubtable whether the USA would have crushed Cuba or not. That is beside the point, however- even is Cuba WAS crushed, it wouldn't have made it wrong to have tried, since the USSR and China were also overthrown and they certainly weren't wrong for trying to developing socialism (also, keep in mind that the level of "living standards" should always be subordinate to the goal of advancing toward communism; in other words, it is better to go without if the only way to obtain certain desired goods is by falling back on capitalist strategies or by becoming a new exploiter state)!

If the Cuban masses are to truly attain national liberation, build socialism, and pave the way to communism, they must grasp Marxism-Leninism-Maoism as their ideology and build a New Democratic Revolution with a protracted People's War. They must overthrow the old revisionists and pro-social-imperialist lackeys within the old government and establish a new, TRUE Socialist Republic of Cuba guided by the revolutionary science of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism. This is the only way they can achieve liberation, and this is what we must uphold for them.

[Clarksist]

^Interesting, yet biased article.

I have heard MANY times that the people alive pre-revolution are are very much for Castro, and those alive only post-revolution dislike Castro.

Frankly, Fidel isn't giving his people free elections, or true socialism. So why should we support this guy?

[cult.45]

USA technicaly shouldn't attack Cuba after Fidel dies, as part of the Cuban Missile Crisis negotiations. But as we all know, USA has a tendency to just tear up contracts when it's convenient.

[Le Libérer]

chaval, thanks for the link to your Cuba Pics. I understand what you are saying about the proverty of Cuba, but the pics are beautiful. Sure the buildings are weather worn, but it really adds to the beauty and the spirit of Cuba. Much like New Orleans was before it was hit by the hurricane. I always felt the old architecture of the worn down old homes in the 9th ward were as beautiful as the mansions the garden district.