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Organic Revolution
6th July 2005, 22:08
Chicago, July 3 -- It was bad enough listening to George Bush’s latest speech, when he tried to perk up his polling numbers by wrapping the Iraq invasion in the flag ("This Fourth of July, I ask you to find a way to thank the men and women defending our freedom by flying the flag...").
What really made me vomit was listening to an NPR gabfest yesterday afternoon as liberal commentators competed with each other to see who could whine the loudest about being SO MISUNDERSTOOD about patriotism. They complained that conservatives were unfairly labeling them as unpatriotic for questioning George Bush's war. "We're as Patriotic as the next guy," they whimpered.

Sorry, Mr. & Ms. Liberal, but I'm unsympathetic to your plight. On a moral level, the notion that human beings born on one side of an invisible line of the map are inherently superior to those on the other side is not only absurd, it's chauvinistic. Your national chauvinism (the impolite term for patriotism) is the root ideological justification for this war which you claim to oppose. Patriotism, the blinkered notion that one nation is intrinsically better than all of the others, lends credence to the notion that the United States, alone among the world's nations, has the right to threaten and invade other countries with its huge military machine, wield disproportionate power in the United Nations and its Security Council, pollute and consume a wildly disproportionate share of the world's resources, etc., etc.

It is ironic that many who claim to oppose American domination of the world are, by their endorsement of patriotism, oblivious to the one form of chauvinism which is most directly in sync with that domination. Are we going to be a movement which is about promoting human liberty or are we not?

EVERY nation has its citizens, past and present, who fought honorably for the rights, livelihoods and dignity of their fellow humans (usually with direct opposition by their "own" governments). EVERY nation has its citizens whose avarice and brutality should appall all but the most misanthropic among us (most often supported by those governments). It is utterly illogical to propose that the path to greater human freedom will be won by all the saints and rogues who happen to live in the same territorial entity combining against similar mixtures in other territorial entities.

To my patriotic liberal friends who say they oppose racism, I say that by endorsing patriotism, you are endorsing a form of racism, the notion that Americans are somehow deserving of special treatment in the world. If you truly want to break the stranglehold that rightwing ideologues have on the political debate in this country, you will not do so by adapting to that most loathsome aspect of their ideologies—chauvinism. National chauvinism is no more pretty than sexist chauvinism, anti-gay chauvinism, or other forms of racist chauvinism.

National chauvinism finds repeated expression within our anti-war movement, to the detriment of the movement as a whole. Liberal organizations are fixated on the 1,700+ American deaths in the conflict, while mentioning merely as an afterthought (if at all), the 100,000+ Iraqi civilians who have died thanks to the American invasion. It is precisely this racism, this devaluing of Iraqi lives versus American lives, that gave us Abu Ghraib. Around the world, military machines have long known that the key to training new soldiers is to first get them to dehumanize "the enemy," call them racist terms, and thus make it "okay" to kill and brutalize them. This is how you get otherwise decent young men and women to commit unspeakable acts on their fellow human beings. For any section of the peace movement to implicitly endorse this racist dehumanization is nothing short of disgraceful.

The peace movement in the United States will not advance by soft-peddling its opposition to national chauvinism, or worse, mimicking that chauvinism, any more than our movement "advanced" when then-President Clinton pandered to the right at every step, paving the way for the "Republican Revolution." As a small section of a worldwide anti-war movement, we are hardly deserving of solidarity from our sisters and brothers abroad if we refuse to cut our apron strings to the government which has so many of them under its heel.

No, I'm not proud to be an American. An accident of birth, it's like being proud of being right- or left-handed. Some 100,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed by Americans and their allies. Some 1 million-plus Iraqis died thanks to American-inspired sanctions before the war. Probably 30,000 to 50,000 Iraqi military personnel were killed by the U.S. and its allies during the invasion, according to a pair of U.S. generals. Especially in light of the Downing Street memo, those 30,000 to 50,000 Iraqis have got a far better claim to having died defending their country than did the 1,700+ killed on the U.S. side of the war.

So no, on this 4th of July I will not pledge allegiance to the flag and the country for which it stands, because like all countries around the world, it is divided by class, with race, sex, sexual orientation and other nasty divisions thrown in for good measure, with liberty and justice for some. I instead pledge allegiance to the human race and the globe on which we all must live. If forced to align with any nation, I align myself with those nations which are fighting to be freed from the domination of the U.S. and other bullies around the globe.

bolshevik butcher
6th July 2005, 22:15
Yeh why are americans in paticular so obsessed with patrionism, i mean the librea ones? That's what annoyed me about farenheight 9/11, moore spent the entire film criticizing american chauvanism and then the basic message was look im patriotic as well at the end. It's the same in his books, he criticizes american patrionism and then calls himself a patriot, why?

Commie Rat
7th July 2005, 07:15
*clap,clap*
very nice, would make a good speech

Anarchist Freedom
7th July 2005, 07:22
Americans are just nationalistic in nature its just how they are.

anomaly
7th July 2005, 07:46
"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel."---I forget who said that, but nevertheless it's a wonderful quote.

Organic Revolution
7th July 2005, 08:09
Originally posted by Anarchist [email protected] 7 2005, 12:22 AM
Americans are just nationalistic in nature its just how they are.
not true.. they are trained from day one to be like that

anomaly
7th July 2005, 08:24
Originally posted by rise up+Jul 7 2005, 07:09 AM--> (rise up @ Jul 7 2005, 07:09 AM)
Anarchist [email protected] 7 2005, 12:22 AM
Americans are just nationalistic in nature its just how they are.
not true.. they are trained from day one to be like that [/b]
Such generalizations, comrade! I'm an American, and yet I feel no sense of patriotism. But, yes, most Americans are 'trained' in many ways to 'love' their country. The media does this through a series of guilt trips, really ("You don't love America?! So you spit in the face of all the current and former members of the armed serivces who fought for you?!).

bolshevik butcher
7th July 2005, 12:14
Originally posted by Commie [email protected] 7 2005, 06:15 AM
*clap,clap*
very nice, would make a good speech
thankyou comerade :D

Bannockburn
7th July 2005, 14:01
That was a good essay. Have you guys ever read Tocqueville's Democracy in America? Well if you haven't, perhaps you should. He argued that there is two kinds of patriotism. The first, Patriotism of instinct is that kind of sentimental feeling associated by the flag. Individuals who make arguments by propping up great American deeds, and American exceptionalism. People who look to the past to justify and give them meaning today.

The second kind of Patriotism is that of reflection. The patriotism where individuals pursue goals to benefit their entire society through laws and other social changes. Today, American is currently jumping on number one, rather than two. If you read anything the fore-fathers wrote, like Jefferson and Paine – their goal was the advancement of reason and rights. They don't care about Bar-B-Ques, or fireworks.

See the Democrats are stupid in a way. Bush wraps himself in the flag all the time and when they critique him, he runs and complains that they are un-American. Whatever that means. I'm going to tell you guys something and I want you all to listen up good. I'm going to tell you a sign of the highest totalitarian goal of a political ideal. That if you criticize the belief, the conviction and the policy of the state, that you are criticizing the people, the culture, society and the country. Identifying state policy with the people. That is the essence of American patriotism, and that's the essence of totalitarianism. Now the problem with this, is the Democrats can not make this distinction, because once they do, they implicitly affirm that the state, the policy, and the politicians are not society, and thus not identifying themselves with the people. As a result, they have to fall in line with the republicans.

bolshevik butcher
7th July 2005, 17:11
That's the problem with the democrats, they seem to be like the republicans with a human face. Like new labour in britain are really just the tories with a human face.

Non-Sectarian Bastard!
7th July 2005, 19:54
Lovely thread enjoyed the piece of "rise up" and Banock.


Americans are just nationalistic in nature its just how they are.

Did you even read his post? I would kick your ass if you said that in front of me.

Anarchist Freedom
7th July 2005, 21:42
Ok not all americans are blubbering patriotic fools. Its just how a majority of americans are raised.

lucky71777
8th July 2005, 21:18
"So no, on this 4th of July I will not pledge allegiance to the flag and the country for which it stands, because like all countries around the world, it is divided by class, with race, sex, sexual orientation and other nasty divisions thrown in for good measure, with liberty and justice for some. I instead pledge allegiance to the human race and the globe on which we all must live. If forced to align with any nation, I align myself with those nations which are fighting to be freed from the domination of the U.S. and other bullies around the globe. "

I totally agree- great essay!

cubalibra
9th July 2005, 03:27
Great essay. As a fellow American embarassed about my homeland, I totally agre. One thing we can hang our hat on is George Bush Jr. will be the cause of America's downfall. The blueprint to take down America was already set by Ho Chi Minh during the Vietnam War. Guerilla warfare will always prevail in the end.

themaskedavenger
9th July 2005, 08:43
NOt much to say. This needs to be spoken on National TV, so the Americans can hear the opinion. I applaud your essay, wish i could write something similar to that.

Elect Marx
9th July 2005, 09:39
Originally posted by Anarchist [email protected] 7 2005, 12:22 AM
Americans are just nationalistic in nature its just how they are.
This is a nationalist statement! You are effectively praising other nations by demeaning people of the US in a seemingly social Darwinist context. So this is prejudicial as well!

What if I said: "Iraqis are born bigots?"


I suggest you apologize.

Andy Bowden
10th July 2005, 15:49
Real patriots constantly question and test their govt - those who mindlessly obey them are robots not "patriots".

Purple
10th July 2005, 18:18
A very good text.

The common impression I have perceived from relatives and friends from the US, is that the president(this one awell as the previous) is always "right", and everybody else is "wrong and in pursue of unjustice". It seems like its this whole Pride thing, that says that it is totally unaccepable for the president to be wrong.

Organic Revolution
10th July 2005, 19:34
thank you to everyone who liked it.

but yeah... americans arent nationalistic in nature, zach. you really shouldnt make such gross generalizations.

Paul R
12th July 2005, 16:13
Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 7 2005, 04:11 PM
That's the problem with the democrats, they seem to be like the republicans with a human face. Like new labour in britain are really just the tories with a human face.
*appluse*

best description of New Labour I've ever heard

Anarchist Freedom
12th July 2005, 16:41
Originally posted by 313C7 iVi4RX+Jul 9 2005, 04:39 AM--> (313C7 iVi4RX @ Jul 9 2005, 04:39 AM)
Anarchist [email protected] 7 2005, 12:22 AM
Americans are just nationalistic in nature its just how they are.
This is a nationalist statement! You are effectively praising other nations by demeaning people of the US in a seemingly social Darwinist context. So this is prejudicial as well!

What if I said: "Iraqis are born bigots?"


I suggest you apologize. [/b]
OK im sorry what I was trying to say is that from birth our children are trained. That is all.

Elect Marx
14th July 2005, 00:19
Originally posted by Anarchist Freedom+Jul 12 2005, 09:41 AM--> (Anarchist Freedom @ Jul 12 2005, 09:41 AM)
Originally posted by 313C7 [email protected] 9 2005, 04:39 AM

Anarchist [email protected] 7 2005, 12:22 AM
Americans are just nationalistic in nature its just how they are.
This is a nationalist statement! You are effectively praising other nations by demeaning people of the US in a seemingly social Darwinist context. So this is prejudicial as well!

What if I said: "Iraqis are born bigots?"


I suggest you apologize.
OK im sorry what I was trying to say is that from birth our children are trained. That is all. [/b]
Good; I wanted that cleared up.

I figured you didn't mean it the way it looked but then again; that is all we have to go on and thus the serious need to post carefully, with much consideration on such matters (esp. when you feel strongly).

Xian
14th July 2005, 00:29
Here Here. Great essay!

http://www.escapeartist.com/efam/52/fuckusa.web.jpg