Pope John Paul II supporting workers cause

[Iepilei]

I was reading in a book over the past and present Popes for a research project I had to do, and I came across something on Pope John Paul II. In it he mentioned he fully supported the workers cause, however, he doesn't agree with Marxism as we tend to support the full-scale seperation of church and state.

Of course, being the freaking Pope, he'd sort of be against such a concept. But I thought it was interesting how someone as influential as the man could support our cause.

[Kez]

The pope and the vatican are all fuckin rotten scum

Since when did religion support the working class?
NEVER

they are a tool to be used by the state to supress us

You know how the vatican came about?
Mussolini gave it to them, they have their roots in fascism, if they gave an ounce of a shit about the working class they would have done something in Nazi Germany, or Fascist Italy, however, they are grateful to the Fascists, and were an active force against the internationale.

Bastard Twats

[deimos]

i agree.the current pope is a conservative twat.

[redstar2000]

It really goes back to one of the late 19th century popes (I forget the turd's name). He was really concerned with the growth of socialist and anarchist views in the working class, so he issued a proclamation telling the bosses that the workers had legitimate gripes and should be treated better; and telling the workers they should flee from atheistic ideas like socialism and anarchism.

The catholic church has been working this con game ever since. Their real heart has always been with the bosses (J2P2 recently canonized--made a "saint"--out of the founder of the fascist Opus Dei order). But they've needed "something" to keep appealing to an ever-dwindling support amongst the workers--hence the periodic "appeals" to the bosses to be "nicer" and "more christian" to the workers.

In other words, they don't really mean it and the pope is a liar! But, you KNEW that.

[Mazdak]

The Pope is just trying to get publicity, that old geezer. Thanks to himand his anti abortion rhetoric, there are plenty of homeless/parentless children.

Religion is the opium of the people, all the pope tries to do is make people think about what they will get when they die, lulling them away from their problems during life.

[redstarshining]

Quote: from Mazdak on 1:33 am on Oct. 25, 2002
The Pope is just trying to get publicity, that old geezer. Thanks to himand his anti abortion rhetoric, there are plenty of homeless/parentless children.

Religion is the opium of the people, all the pope tries to do is make people think about what they will get when they die, lulling them away from their problems during life.



this reminds me of an old song by Joe Hill ;)
It's about the Baptist church in the late 20th century, but true for all churches imo. Nothing much has changed since then.

I just recently saw a report about the Bishop conference in Rome, where the pope thanked god "for defeating the evil of communism". I do not need to mention that the catholic church had a concordat ( spelling? ) with the Nazis in WWII.

Lyrics:

Long haired preachers come out ev'ry night,
Try to tell you what's wrong and what's right;
But when asked, how 'bout something to eat, (Let us eat)
They will answer with voices so sweet; (Oh so sweet)
You will eat, (You will eat)
Bye and bye, (Bye and bye) in that glorious land above the sky;
(way up high)
work and pray, (work and pray) live on hay, (Live on hay)
you'll get pie in the sky when you die. (That's a lie)

And the starvation army they play,
And they sing and they clap and they pray.
Till they get all your coin on the drum,
Then they'll tell you when you're on the bum:

-Chorus-

Holy Rollers and Jumpers come out,
And they holler, they jump and they shout
"Give your money to Jesus," they say,
"He will cure all diseases today."

-Chorus-

If you fight hard for children and wife-
Try to get something good in this life-
You're a sinner and bad man, they tell,
When you die you will sure go to hell.

-Chorus-

Workingmen of all countries unite,
Side by side we for freedom will fight!
When the world and its wealth we have gained,
To the grafters we'll sing this refrain:

-Final Chorus-

You will eat, bye and bye,
When you've learned how to cook and to fry.
Chop some wood, 'twill do you good,
And you'll eat in the sweet bye and bye.



taken from http://www.pbs.org/joehill/voices/preacher_slave.html

[ruttager]

The Catholic Church in Latin America, however, has for the most part sided with the left with their "preferential option for the poor" policy, which they adopted in the 60's. Since then the clergy has become a target of the right. Bishop Jaun Gerardi and Sister Barbara Ann Ford in Guatemala are recent examples of this (both murdered in separate instances, both defenders of human rights and enemies of the military government there). The Maryknoll nuns that were raped and murdered in 1980 in El Salvador are another example. Typically, though, the Vatican seems to have given limited support to their colleagues in South America. In 1998 the Vatican issued a document titled "Towards a Better Distribution of Land: The Challenge of Agrarian Reform" which seems partially sympathetic towards a socialist system. However, it is sort of double sided and espouses both redistribution of the land to the people and the opening of land to foreign investor groups. Hard to know what to make of that one.

[redstar2000]

What I make of it is: just another scam. The catholic church has a long history of trying to co-opt popular sentiment for its own advantage.

For example, when Algeria was about to win its independence from France, the catholic church launched a crash training program for priests to teach them ARABIC.(!)

I read a piece not long ago about the "liberation theology" priests in Manaus, Brazil. Those guys are all for the poor, all right, except when it comes to contraception...which is a SIN. As a consequence, dozens of new-born babies are allowed to starve to death every week there; their mothers do not feed them and after a few days, they die. Their mothers do not feed them because they know they can't afford more children; there is no money to raise them. And all this, of course, is NOT a sin.

I daresay there are some catholic clergy at the bottom and even a few at the top who do not think that fascism is the best way to go...but not because they think there's anything morally wrong about fascism. It's a purely pragmatic decision: if the church looks too pro-military, too pro-big landowner, too pro-capitalist...then their faithful might go whoring off to strange new gods like Marx and Che. And, of course, some of the right-wing military types in South and Central America are stupid enough to fall for the scam and assassinate a bishop here and there and rape and murder a few nuns. But that's "ok" with the church; in fact, it lends credibility to the scam. They lose a few clergy; it just makes them look like they "really" care about the people.

Believe me, they don't!

[Rob]

It is true that the church authority tends to have bad opinions, but I believe that many of the priests and nuns involved in liberation theology do have genuniely good motives.