Is the SWP (USA) still Trotskyist?

[Andy Bowden]

I read that the SWP in the USA wrote an article called "Their Trotsky and ours" in which they allegedly broke with Trotsky's ideas because they believed the Cuban revolution had proved them wrong. I have also heard that the SWP sued other left groups for printing Trotsky material which they had a copyright on.

Definitely the support for the DPRK in the Militant newspaper is not common in most Trotskyist groups, yet the SWP still print Trotsky's works :blink:

I may be misinformed - it could quite easily be a case of left sectarianism, but any info from US comrades would be appreciated.

[Super Mario Conspiracy]

Mm... I see. It would be like copyrighting communism or socialism. They don't seem very socialist to me - since they refuse to listen to other groups, which is necessary in socialism.

[Severian]

What's in a name? Or a political label.

Wikipedia article - now more or less accurate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_Workers_Party_%28USA%29#1980s_and_after)

The SWP continues to agree with Trotsky's analysis of fascism and Stalinism, for example, as well as those ideas which Trotsky had in common with Marx, Engels, Lenin and others. It supports Pathfinder Press, which publishes Trotsky's collected works and many other books by him.

It disagrees with Trotsky's theory of permanent revolution, that is his ideas on the relationship between the democratic and socialist revolution. Ideas which are probably not understood, let alone agreed with, by most of the people who consider themselves Trotskyists in the world today.

Criticism of "Their Trotsky and Ours" has rarely focused on its real content, because it deals with issues of the fight for power which most middle-class radicals have little interest in. So rather than debate the issues, they treat it as a scandal.

The Militant has never expressed political support for the DPRK government. It does agree with that government on defense of the north Korean workers' state from imperialism, on opposition to U.S. troops in the Korean peninsula, and on Korean unification. I fail to see how this is contrary to Trotsky's political approach.

The copyright dispute is a tempest in a teapot, but briefly: Pathfinder Press - not the SWP - has a copyright on the work done by its staff and supporters. Not "copyrighting communism or socialism." If other publishers want to benefit from that work, they can ask permission and help pay for the work.

[YKTMX]

It does agree with that government on defense of the north Korean workers' state from imperialism

I can't trust anyone who calls the sub-fascist hellhole in Korea a "workers' state". I'm not sure if Severian was merely quoting the SWP, or does he really think that Kim Jong-Il leads a "kind" of workers' state? I'd be interested to know.

[A.R.Amistad]

I read that the SWP in the USA wrote an article called "Their Trotsky and ours" in which they allegedly broke with Trotsky's ideas because they believed the Cuban revolution had proved them wrong.

Yes, this is sadly true, and the fact is that SWP is wrong about everything. I am a member of the Trotskyist faction, Socialist Action, that continued after the SWP abandoned it, and we have direct connections with the Cuban CP. The Cuban revolution did not prove Bolshevism wrong: it simply showed that the Marxist-Leninist approach to revolution is non dogmatic and should not be approached as such. In fact, much of Che's works suggest that the Cuban Revolution truly was a continuation of true Leninism. Its funny what SWP now claims even though, like with everything else nowadays, they do nothing but senselessly revise revolutionary Marxism.

[blake 3:17]

Seems like the above is right. The American SWP have kept some important books in print but that seems about it at this point.

[RHIZOMES]

I think it's quite obvious for any socialist to see the media bias towards North Korea trying to defend it's own national interests (which aren't the N. Korean workers interest) against US imperialism. That =/= defending Korea because it's a "workers state" defending itself. :laugh: They have removed all references to Marxism and the proletariat from their constitution. They have a military-first policy.

[Yehuda Stern]

The SWP has effectively stopped being Trotskyist in the 1940s along with most of the FI, when it gave the title of workers states to states created not by the workers but indeed by crushing proletarian uprisings.

Officially, the SWP hasn't been Trotskyist since the 1980s. Given its position on the Stalinist states, one can hardly claim that it still "agrees with Trotsky on Stalinism," or with Marx, Engels or Lenin for that matter.

As for Marxist works, here again the SWP representative is bluffing. Pathfinder has sued people not over copyright on material released by the organization, but also on works by classical Marxists, including Trotsky. Now the rights apparently belong to Wellred, the IMT's publishing house, which is cheaper and more lenient on copyright as far as I know.