What do you think about the homeless

[Field Marshal]

Tommorow, I'm going off to work at a soup kitchen. Then later we are going to go help build houses for the homeless. For the school aspect of it, we are going to have a discussion/debate about the homeless.

The only thing that I have heard people on the Right say is that many people rip off the welfare system, and that's why it should be abolished. Are there any other arguements I could prepare for, and ones that I could counter?

Thanks for the help guys.

[Exploited Class]

What do I think about the homeless? I try very hard to not think about them ya see, and I generally get away from having to see them because of my giant SUV.

I jest however.

Here is a great argument for you to use.

Yes these people are sucking so much of us to live this wonderful lifestyle of cardboard houses, mental illness, hunger, continual fear, pity, despair, abuse, hate crimes. I mean who wouldn't want to live like this? Diseased ridden, cold and wet enviroment, hand out living, no respect lifestyle, I don't know what keeps me from doing it. I'd give up my cozy habitat in a second for sucking off a other people's money because the living looks good.

I'm bored, how about we all go out and get addicted to some drugs and end up losing all our friends? Because we all plan it to happen this way right?

Oh man, yesterday I got a mental illness and I can't live in society because I can't disdinguish between reality and the fucking insane things my mind creates for no godamn reason other than a got an unlucky roll of the dice. Well thank goodness I am not taking up anybody's precious money with healthcare and mental illness treatment so I can go live that wonderful life of a hobo till I die in a world of horrors and insane thought patterns.

You can always say,
Just be glad and fortunate that you can indulge in the wonderful world of roof over your head, and can spoil yourself with running water. Oh I heard your cable for your TV went out the other night, must of been rough.
*****.

[IHP]

If you can find some statistics on what % of americans live below the poverty line would be useful. Although, they might not be entirely accurate.

What exploitedclass said was good. You really have to punch into your classmates just how lucky you all are, just being at school, and able to be there to debate. The Rights argument that they are ripping of the welfare system is dogmatic crap. But well-off people take it as gospel. Its human nature to think that other people are getting something for nothing, while they have to work. Unfortunately they don't (want)see the other side of human existence, and the ills of capitalism.

I'll try and finds some stats for you re:poverty line.

good luck with it.

--IHP

[IHP]

At http://www.epinet.org/

they say that 37M Americans go with out basic necessities like food and shelter etc. Now that's bloody shocking. What the population of America? 288M?

At that site, scroll down until you see "The Needs of the Working Poor" by Heater Boushy

Hope that was helpful.

--IHP

[Exploited Class]

Here, you can tell them that yes it is these people's fault that there is a 6% unemployment rate in the country.

You can also add, yes why aren't these people working with the guarante of work and job availability law in capitalism.

You can say, "I bet these people come from the best homes and had awesome childhoods like our own. I can't imagine why each of them turned down the college money given to them at birth."

SO what age do you think her parents kicked her out of thier house and left her with only the options of being a doctor or stree prostitute, 15, 16 maybe?

We should be as nice as possible to them, who knows how ALL of them got to be like this. It might not take much. Hell who knows which one of us might end up like this. But everything always works out exactly the way we plan it in life, and we have never ever have unexpected things happen, so who cares about these real life examples of situations gone wrong.

How could we have let society go so astray that this could ever happen to a human being.

37Million, wow, I guess with all of us living in our away from the real life horrors protected suburbia, we don't have to ever see the truth, we just look to our left and right and see our neighbors and they are in the same economic standing as we are. So everything must be okay.

[KickMcCann]

I don't know if any of you have, but I've met quite a few homeless people. And just like any classification we put eachother in, there are different polarities to the situation. I'll tell you about 2 I've noticied, but there are more.

Lets start with the ones who are homeless out of their own free will. I was lucky enough to take a trip to Key West in the Florida Keys. The morning before I left, I went down to a pier to sit and relax. Sleeping on the pier were 2 homeless men. I kept my distance until they woke up, and when they did, I had an interesting conversation with them. One gentleman was originally from Spain, he had been on the Island for over 50 years, living on the streets, in a wheel chair. The other one was a native born on the island. They said they liked being homeless, waking up to the sunrise sleeping under the stars. But they were also alcoholics and drug addicts. When the woke up, they started to drink, and I noticied all the track marks from the heroin they did. I asked them if they wanted to change, they said no way.
These were not the oppressed poster people of the left, they chose a life style they liked, even if it destroyed them.
On the other side; I met a homeless individual in downtown Cincinnati once. He had lost his job a couple days ago and was so ashamed that he left his family and took to the streets panhandling and drinking. He didn't know what to do. It was obvious that this man had serious mental problems in the area of handling stress and depression. He gave up on life, but not voluntarily, he was too swamped with problems in his head.
So while many poor people are living in conditions beyond their control, some people adopt is a way of life. Some people like prostitiution, drug addiction, diseases, and unhappiness. You may desire to help them and support them, but they don't want help or support or change. It hard to understand the first time but that's the way it is.

[Field Marshal]

Wow, this is all awesome stuff. Thanks a lot guys.

What about the welfare deadline, is that an effective way to deal with poverty? I've heard the argument that the poor need motivation, and since they need the welfare cut off at like 6 months so they can start working like everyone else.

Also, what are some ways to deal with poverty, I bet that will be a question asked.

[jon doe]

G'day


So while many poor people are living in conditions beyond their control, some people adopt is a way of life. Some people like prostitiution, drug addiction, diseases, and unhappiness. You may desire to help them and support them, but they don't want help or support or change. It hard to understand the first time but that's the way it is.

i know a few homeless people who are homeless by choice and they sure aren't unhappy. a lot of people who are homeless want to try to fit back into society but a lucky few have managed to get rid of thier chains and be free of the manackles of society. the couple that i know are really nice and i support them fully i don't see why people being homeless by need or choice should change anything.

thanks
-r.

[Nickademus]

i can tell you that a lot of people feel that homeless people are just lazy. they just don't want to work. naturally this a bunch of bull shit but it is an argument that is often made.

i also hear the argument that any money they get they just spend on alcohol. But i ask you, would you want to be sober having to life that life? probably not.

and this capitalist world we live in has made it impossible for people to really be subsistant. you can't hunt for food without money. you can't camp somewhere (generally) without money. you can't do anything without money. If people were able to live without money, many of these people could very well be self-sufficient but our society has stopped that possibility.

[Valkyrie]

Yeah, Exactly Nickademus, that's why I get really pissed off when people (Kamo) are critical of the organizations, Food Not Bombs, Homes Not Jails, and the movement of squatting. Obviously, THE State ain't providing for everyone with their minimal inadequate welfare services.

[Nickademus]

Quote: from Paris on 12:47 am on Oct. 24, 2002
Yeah, Exactly Nickademus, that's why I get really pissed off when people (Kamo) are critical of the organizations, Food Not Bombs, Homes Not Jails, and the movement of squatting. Obviously, THE State ain't providing for everyone with their minimal inadequate welfare services.

i see it daily. i work at a povery legal clinic. where my clients are so poor that many of them are barely living, even when they are receiving the exremely small amounts of welfare they are getting. and when they start to make money, they automatically are deducted welfare....so how are they supposed to get anywhere in life. you either don't have a job and try to make ends meet on welfare or you get a job and have less welfare (even if the job pays very little) and can't go to school etc. to better yourself because welfare won't help you 'better yourself' (i hate that term.

[Exploited Class]

Quote: from Nickademus on 12:39 am on Oct. 24, 2002
i can tell you that a lot of people feel that homeless people are just lazy. they just don't want to work. naturally this a bunch of bull shit but it is an argument that is often made.



They say it and try to believe it so they can sleep at night. It is hard to buy a 5000 dolar plasma TV when somebody is dying of hunger and sickness a few feet away from you. Oh wait, that was cured with the suburbs.

[man in the red suit]

a lot of bums are just mentally unstable. I always come across this bum who talks to his imaginary friend. I gave him a dollar.

Some bums play flutes. They should start a bum orchstra and then they wouldn't have to be homeless.

and a lot of the times, they are not homeless. Mike lives in this little shack that he made at Serrania park and he is happy. Even when I offer him a dollar, he refuses. And when he does take my dollar he buys a ham sandwiche instead of alcohol and even then he offers to split it with me, regardless of how hungry he is himself. Homeless people are cool. They don't take advantage of the welfare system, they don't even use it. they are happy enough on their own.

I don't think I have provided any arguments but I felt the need to post this anyway.