Communism + Socialism

[Agony]

Hi, well I'm actually a bit confused - and feeling rather stupid asking this question. But I'll do it anyway, eh? I've heard some say that Socialism is not so different from Communism, and others telling the inverse. So, I'm wondering: where is the different in Communism and Socialism? Please, tell me before I declare myself as a Communist and forget everything ever written about Socialism ;)
-Agony

[Monty Cantsin]

i dont think you should take that apporch...you should learn as much as you can in order to make better decisions (life changing, at times).

communism - no state

socialism - state

communism- classless

socialism - Classes in decomposition

communism - No mone...gift economy, batter system between communes or however one wishes to contruct the economic system without Private ownership of capital.

socialism - Money...small amounts of private property in some cases.

[Batman]

Socialism is the first stage on the road towards Communism( A classless society)

During the Socialist period the proletarian will be in power, the means of production, distribution and rate of exchange in the hands of the working class. This is called the dictatorship of the proletarian. As Socialism progresses, the State will simply wither away.

That's my take on it anyway, I'm not 100% sure though.

[Oldergod]

"Socialism is the first stage on the road towards Communism( A classless society)" -- Batman

^^i disagree...and communism does have a state...who do you think operates it? the people? that would be a socialist government...hence the name social-ist

communism is a government totally run by the state...government controls goods and production of goods and services

socialism can NOT be soly looked at as "the first stages"....socialism is a 2000 year old idea and communism is only a hundred years old...do the math

[Clarksist]

i disagree...and communism does have a state...who do you think operates it? the people? that would be a socialist government...hence the name social-ist


No, communism does NOT have a state. It is ran by the entire of people, not by a ruling class with sovereignty and the whole bit. Communist societies make decisions democratically and without a state.


socialism can NOT be soly looked at as "the first stages"....socialism is a 2000 year old idea and communism is only a hundred years old...do the math


It can be by marxists...

[Oldergod]

yea if your a marxist then of course you agree...but im not a marxist and i dont agree with everything marx said...

[Oldergod]

ohh..and i think you have communism confused with anarchy...anarchy is a theory where there is NO STATE...no system...communism is a form of government completely run by the state

[Che1990]

I thought socialism was a political movement and communism, anarchism etc. branched out from that.

[Clarksist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 05:10 PM
ohh..and i think you have communism confused with anarchy...anarchy is a theory where there is NO STATE...no system...communism is a form of government completely run by the state
No, actually you have communism mixed up with socialism. Communism has no state, and anarchy is theoretically very similar to communism in that there is no state. However, I believe you need to read more on Communism and Socialism. Perhaps The German Ideology by Marx. That explains it pretty well. While I'm not a Marxist, he does explain how Socialism has State and Communism comes after the withering away of said state.

[Oldergod]

no thats not right cause a government without a state isnt a government..and communism is an economic form of government...

socialism is the idea where means of production is controlled by the people

"I thought socialism was a political movement and communism, anarchism etc. branched out from that."-- Che1990

if you want to say communism and anarchism branches from socialism...that i will agree with because...i dont know about anarchism but socialism is definitely an older idea than communism...you can say that marx tweeked the idea of socialism into his own form...that would make sense...

[Super Mario Conspiracy]

no thats not right cause a government without a state isnt a government..

You said it yourself. If a government does not have a country, then there can be no government, right? That's what communism is all about!

Imagine if your country tomorrow resigned and declared communism. Your country would disappear from the world map - according to capitalist principles. It would be free to invade, free to kill people, to rape, torture, and so on. They're not breaking any international rules or anything. It would be exactly the same for them like landing on the moon and declare a property there.

That is exactly why communism can not exist so long there are countries and governments. So long there are any form of power concentrated in a smaller form (one person - dictator, or "council", government, secret society etc) people will never be free - and that is exactly why there is socialism - it functions as a transision state. From capitalism, to socialism, to communicm.


and communism is an economic form of government...

Are you being economic when you give your friend a present?


socialism is the idea where means of production is controlled by the people

Yes - but socialism still has a government. Communism do not. In theory, communism could actually be anything - it could be a place where people have guns and don't trust anyone, killing to survive - or, it could be a society where people help each other.

That is exactly why I think we need a transisional stage before communism. We need people to "learn" to be socialists - to encourage them to be free! And it would also lighten the pressure people have on them.


if you want to say communism and anarchism branches from socialism...

All left-wing branches stems out of socialism, well, except those who prefer an authorian system.


i dont know about anarchism but socialism is definitely an older idea than communism...

Technically, it isn't. Think about it: did humans exist before any form of currency existed?

[workersunity]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 11:10 AM
ohh..and i think you have communism confused with anarchy...anarchy is a theory where there is NO STATE...no system...communism is a form of government completely run by the state
you sir are an idiot, i hate to name call, but in COMMUNISM THERE IS NO STATE< what dont you understand about that, its not a hard thing to know.

[Batman]

^^i disagree...and communism does have a state...who do you think operates it? the people? that would be a socialist government...hence the name social-ist


Communism does not have a state. It is a classless society.


communism is a government totally run by the state...government controls goods and production of goods and services


State ownership does not mean socialist, and it definetly doesnt mean communist.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/connolly/1...el/stmonsoc.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/connolly/1901/evangel/stmonsoc.htm)


socialism can NOT be soly looked at as "the first stages"....socialism is a 2000 year old idea and communism is only a hundred years old...do the math

Socialism was only thought of during the 1880&#39;s. Actually the first &#39;Marxist&#39; as such was an Irish man by the name of William Thompson, he developed socialist ideas about thity years before Marx if I&#39;m right. What math are you talking of?

[Batman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 05:10 PM
ohh..and i think you have communism confused with anarchy...anarchy is a theory where there is NO STATE...no system...communism is a form of government completely run by the state
Anarchists and Communists have the same goal. The difference is which strategy to use. Anarchists want to break the state straight away, Communist would take control of the State apparatus until the State would finally wither away.
http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/work...terev/index.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1917/staterev/index.htm)

[Oldergod]

wow...i never met such a large group of idiots in my life...

let me pull out a dictionary....


Communism
A system of government in which the state plans and controls the economy and a single, often authoritarian party holds power, claiming to make progress toward a higher social order in which all goods are equally shared by the people.

Communism

n 1: a form of socialism that abolishes private ownership 2: a political theory favoring collectivism in a classless society



second of all....jesus was a socialist...so that was about....2000 years ago? yea..and marx is the father of communism? that was what?...maybe alittle over a 100 years?....do the math


let me pull out the dictionary again and find anarchy....


an·ar·chy
n. pl. an·ar·chies
Absence of any form of political authority.
Political disorder and confusion.
Absence of any cohesive principle, such as a common standard or purpose.


"You said it yourself. If a government does not have a country, then there can be no government, right? That&#39;s what communism is all about&#33;" -- Super Mario


thats not what i said at all


how old are you people? like 12-16? do me the favor and dont ever join an organization or movement you dont fully understand


while im at it...let me get socialism out of the dictionary....


so·cial·ism (ssh-lzm)
n.
Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.

[bunk]

Have you ever read any communist literature?

[Oldergod]

i own a copy of the communist manifesto

[Oldergod]

what does that have anything to do with anything? if im wrong prove it...i even pulled out a dictionary for yall

[GoaRedStar]

I suggest you read this http://monthlyreview.org/0705jbf.htm


and i mean actuclly read , this will give you a history of the socialism during the 20th century and its current state.

[bunk]

No you pulled a new window and went on dicitoanry.com or their definitions are word for word. Why do you trust a dictionary? All of the state-capitalist nations of the Eastern Bloc are referred to as communist, does that mean they were?

Anyway even on dictionary.com they have "A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage of all members."

[GoaRedStar]

Also read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

[Oldergod]

your gunna call me out cause i used dictionary.com? want me to pull out webster?

[bunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 08:00 PM
your gunna call me out cause i used dictionary.com? want me to pull out webster?
what? I just joked that you didn&#39;t pull out a dictionary? The false communism you speak of is bad for this movement, it&#39;s what defenders of capitalism use...

[Clarksist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 06:44 PM
i own a copy of the communist manifesto
Oh... well if you own a copy of the Manifesto you just MUST know more than the masses of actual communists. :rolleyes:

This is really common with new commies, or stalinists. Just because a dictionary says that, doesn&#39;t mean that&#39;s what it means. It all comes down to how you use the word, it changes the meaning. The word Communism was tacked onto the CCCP and China. From then on oppressive state-capitalist nations were called Communist.

I remember when I first got into communism and I thought what you did. I had read the Manifesto and just thought the government would take care of everything. Then I did myself the favor of actually delving deep into Communist literature, and not limiting myself to just the Manifesto.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 08:00 PM
your gunna call me out cause i used dictionary.com? want me to pull out webster?
Communism is a stateless classless society where things are organised "from each according his ability to each according his needs.

It&#39;s almost exactly the same as Anarchism. Go read Anarchist-Communist literature.

[Batman]

wow...i never met such a large group of idiots in my life...


The irony is delicous.

[Warren Peace]

Socialism is the idea of collective control (control by the people) instead of of private control (control by rich ass corporations), over the industry.

Communists, anarchists, and of course other socialists support Socialism. Socialism is not only the road to Communism/Anarchism, it is part of Communism/Anarchism.

All Communists are socialists, all Anarchists are socialists, and there are some socialists who don&#39;t go into either category.

[Oldergod]

the promise communism gives the people is that eventually it WILL be stateless and into eventually anarchy...but COMMUNISM ITS SELF is a government run by the state....period...if thats something you dont know then you shouldnt consider yourself a communist...

"Socialism is the idea of collective control (control by the people) instead of of private control (control by rich ass corporations), over the industry.

Communists, anarchists, and of course other socialists support Socialism. Socialism is not only the road to Communism/Anarchism, it is part of Communism/Anarchism.

All Communists are socialists, all Anarchists are socialists, and there are some socialists who don&#39;t go into either category. " -- revolt now


i agree...except that communism supports socialism...not always...president peron of argentina was a socialist and he hated communism as much as capitalism...go figure

[Warren Peace]

i agree...except that communism supports socialism...not always...president peron of argentina was a socialist and he hated communism as much as capitalism...go figure

Then he would be one of the socialists who doesn&#39;t go into either category.

That makes me think of Hitler. The Nazi party really was a socialist workers party before Hitler corrupted it. Hitler and his fucking Nazis were capitalists, and they put Communists/Socialists in concentration camps along with the Jews.

The fact that there are "socialists" who hate communism is ironic because socialism comes from Marxist-Leninist theory.