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Moral_Imbalance
2nd July 2005, 16:30
OK Here goes.... im going to lay down the basic tenents of Nihlism and give reasoning behind each tenent feel free to post anarchisms tenents and ask questions about Nihlism.
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Death to Government

Mass murder is not a natural state of affairs but rather one that must be organized and engineered by a central authority. From Mao Tse Tung to Pol Pot, only government powered by wayward ideology can compel it's citizens to obey such destructive dictates.

It takes a government to create mass starvation; look at Zimbabwe today under the guidance of the racist Marxist Robert Mugabe. Why do North Koreans eat grass and sell human flesh for food? It's not because they don't know how to farm, it's because food production is controlled by the central authority.

But of course our government is safe and trustworthy so don't worry about it, right? Many forget that Hitler was democratically elected by a significant margin in a legitimate election. And who kicked all of the Japanese, legal citizens by the way, out of their homes and locked them up in internment camps during World War II? That same government (and the Soviets too) tested atomic bombs on their very own soldiers, the same ones that fought to defend their country!

American soldiers soaking up the gamma rays on the beach at Enewetak atoll, 1956. Those nuclear blasts sure light up the nighttime darkness eh?

The first atom bomb used in war was dropped on Hiroshima and targeted a Japanese military headquarters. However it's a little known fact that the American military knew they would vaporize not only 20,000 Japanese soldiers in their barracks but also American POW's being held in a prison there! And what did the 'peacemaker' president Harry Truman have to say about that very event? "This is the greatest thing in history!" I rest my case.

"The US and the Soviet Union each spent the equivalent of 10 trillion dollars on the arms race." - Mikhail Gorbachev, July 2002

Even a cursory study of recent history provides a damning portrayal of the hazards of centralized authority, and the bigger and more distant it is from the people the worse it gets. Never, ever, ever concede power to persons that can avoid the consequences resulting from their actions.

Death to God

The stupidest, most mind stifling, self-destructive notions can always find an open opportunity to perpetuate in the skepticism-free safe haven of religion. Here's a few cursory examples:

Orthodox Jews won't touch a light switch on the Sabbath, many refuse to touch a phone to call an ambulance either and definitely not if the unfortunate victim happens to be a gentile.


Christianity still thinks evolution is a fiction, these are the same people that caged the great mind of Galileo under permanent house arrest for supporting the appalling heresy of *gasp* the Earth revolving around the sun and not the other way around! And if Galileo had been less famous he would have been tortured and executed. The Christian Church used to put animals on trial for crimes against God, they accepted cash payments for the forgiveness of sins - even for dead relatives!

Today, even though many Amish buildings are destroyed by lightning induced fires they refuse to add lightning rods to their buildings because they believe such things are contrary to God's will.

And what of Islam that doesn't even want women to drive cars (God forbid, it might actually prove they're capable of doing something!) or forcing them to wear head to toe black robes in the 120 degree desert heat. Islam's hatred for women is only matched by Judaism's. In fact misogynism is so much a general trait of all the dominant religions it may as well be a defining characteristic.

Confusing? Doesn't make sense? Of course - it's religion! The less logic it has, the more it can only be understood by 'faith' and faith means obedience to the interpreters of the confusion. This is the power of the priesthood class, they profit from ignorance and blind belief. "Well, religion is a collective insanity, the more powerful because it is traditional folly, and because its origin is lost in the most remote antiquity," - Bakunin.

Death to Ideology

Highlighted in a recent book review - the conveniently forgotten war crimes perpetrated by the Communist liberators of Germany. Those heroes of the Motherland somehow found the time between shaking hands with allied American soldiers and building 'Iron Curtains' to gang rape, literally every woman they could get their hands on throughout eastern Europe. The author wryly states "If anything, the events of 1945 reveal how thin the veneer of civilization can be when there is little fear of retribution. It also suggests a much darker side to male sexuality than we might care to admit." [1]

Yeah no shit Sherlock, it doesn't take Andrea Dworkin to figure that one out. All animal species operate under the same sexual principle of reproduction by every means possible and (news flash) most of those bipeds so generously referred to as Homo sapiens have very little inner desire to actually act like human beings when they can act like animals instead. That's what it's really about.

"The Red Army had managed to convince itself that because it had assumed the moral mission to liberate Europe from fascism it could behave entirely as it liked, both personally and politically." [ibid] Death to communism, death to fascism, and death to everything in between. What did either side gain besides some 30 million dead?! Fuck their wars. I've seen videos of World War II German news films; you should too if you get the chance. Germanic robots eagerly dying in pools of blood and mud just inches from that unreachable goal promised them by their benevolent leaders so their wives, sisters and daughters could be mass raped, tortured and murdered back home. Meanwhile those precious few with enough smarts to refuse to participate get a slave manufactured, government stamped bullet implanted into their brain at mach two.

And just like clockwork, once again our benevolent leaders concoct another world war against evil, this time it's terrorism replete with all the typical propaganda - 'axis' of evil' and 'them against us' the Godly saints versus the filthy demons all perfectly packaged propaganda properly priced for all the citizens to gladly pay for in blood and taxes.

It's long overdue but nihilism will steal their ammunition literally and figuratively once and for all. Communists will die for communism, fascists will die for fascism and the religious will die for religion, and with them all gone the nihilistic remainder will joyfully inherit the planet.

Death to Purpose

Here's a good way to start a conversation, just ask someone, "is there any rational purpose to cosmic existence?" Can they give a serious answer? And could this dearth of logical purpose explain rampant consumerism, drug abuse, entertainment escapism and suicide?

So then, what are we here for? The intellectuals take a stab and walk away bloody. The misfiring synapses in Nietzsche's syphilis corroded brain spoke in mystical tones on the expression of power embodied in the Zarathustrian superman. Carl Sagan took a few hits off his joint and told us, it's all about fathoming the infinities of the cosmos, man. Freydis 1 just killed them (without any help thank-you), took what she wanted and got the hell out of the native infested new world and went back home (the original uberfrau?!). And now Freydis II is heard saying there's no reason so don't even try. Now true, taking advice from any of those persons should probably be accompanied by one of those lengthy legal warnings that come with computer software, but nevertheless the real problem is that everyone tries to find a reason regardless of the dangers. It's human nature. We may know why things are but none of it serves any goal yet we're programmed to believe or more accurately predisposed to believe that everything has a goal and purpose. So we revert to mystical beliefs to avoid dealing with it. The result is religion, the manic faith in unassailable fiction as an intentional avoidance of the rational lack of logical purpose for existence.

Some are more predisposed than others to need the lies. Culture is really the vehicle with which all these irrational beliefs and practices are conveyed. Some people are so defined by their body of beliefs that they commit suicide when those ideas, that culture is discredited. But what would you do if everything you'd been taught, all that you thought was true and your entire way of life was turned upside down overnight? Mass suicide is so common anymore it's practically a fashion statement. If Jim Jones had been alive during the 80's, MTV would have been all over him like stink on a monkey.

'First-Nation' archaic cultures are the most obvious victims of anomie occurring from the head on collision between modern hi-tech culture and stone-age subsistence living. But even within the modern western world the effects of science and technology changing, revolutionizing and discrediting tradition are taking their toll, school shooting anyone? Another kernel pops, the news crews package the carnage into a 60 second evening spot and everyone not dead takes an aspirin for the sense of mild unease and tries to get some sleep for the early work day tomorrow.

Rewind to the opposite extreme, now we see why intentionally irrational movements exerted such a significant influence during the tumultuous 20th century. From the pure emotional incitement of Dada art to the expression of raw animal power in Fascism, trying to not make sense actually takes a lot of effort and produces some strange results. Humanity slams into yet another cinder block wall - it's not a door, the fire exit was just painted on! The people we're just as exploitable as religious believers because once again they had no objective references, they castrated their minds and robbed themselves of their only defense - skepticism and critical thought. So there you have it, within the modern milieu faith leads to suicide as the flawed notions are continually discredited, reason leads to nihilism, and irrationality leads to mass destruction. Decided yet?

The bottom line is that an awareness of continuity is necessary for sanity and contentment (if you study nothing else in life, study history). In practice this means a comprehension of past coupled with a reasonable expectation of the self continuing into the future, in some form or another. This is the root psychology of human purpose. Basically all of human endeavor is wrapped up within the inveterate quest for immortality; after all, if your just going to die then what's the point of anything?

But even if everlasting life in a literal, physical sense is impossible it can nonetheless be achieved in a vicarious but very significant way. This practical immortality can take multiple forms from genetically similar offspring to more vague concepts like heroic altruism, fame, and glory. Indeed the most successful here have themselves interjected into the very fabric of culture, an estimable means of perpetuating legend to be sure. The secondary benefit to achieving these coveted status' is that it enhances every other element of social success; celebrities never have any problems finding money or mates.

Death to Culture

Culture is as palpable as it is immeasurable, it's really a collection of common beliefs, values and goals that slowly change with the winds of fashion and perceptions. In short it's a medium, a dimension with which to perpetuate the concept of self. Culture is a proxy immortality for the participators, a selfish gift to the next generation so they may toil and suffer against the same pain and wrestle the same fictional demons all over again. Culture is just habit - it's the comfort of routine within the context of history. If a suicidal mentality is one that views life as no better than death, so extending a culture in a suicidal mode means that it's just not worth the effort anymore. Considering that most of what is perpetuated within culture is just garbage and poison it's probably a good idea to kill it off anyway.

Purpose comes from knowledge of your past with the prospect of it continuing into the future. And although it's possible to live purely for the now in a state of hedonism, it's always an ephemeral affair since it leaves no remainder, no memories, no residue, no offspring to carry on the ideas or the culture. It looks like the medium is the message, perpetuating without goal except to continue perpetuating.

Herein we see a competition, an evolution occurring, the most virulent cultures spread, eventually crowding out those that don't perpetuate well or at all. Culture doesn't care a bit whether an individual lives, dies, likes the culture or doesn't because the individual is but a small part of a larger system and not the other way around. Get a solid perspective, know your place and things will start to make sense. And yet the ego and the delusion of self-importance clouds judgment (now we know why!) and everyone follows along.

Perhaps a more objective perspective would accept that all human endeavor is part of some culture; culture is not to be done away without eliminating humanity itself. We know what culture comes from and what purpose it serves, but the important issue is what form should that culture take anymore? If it's based upon fantasies it will inevitably crumble to dust and spin everyone attached into disorder and self-destruction. If it is based instead on fact it will have a greater longevity and yield peace and prosperity for the cultural participants.

Death to The Ego

One of the recurring themes in nihilism is that individual worth is vastly inflated by the subjective self or what's popularly referred to as the 'ego' - that selfish urge inherent within human nature. For example, the belief in life after death didn't arise by accident. Just think of the alternate and how it limits actions. Eternal life is an illusion but a potent one. "All the Galatae, the Triballi, and many other barbarians believe in the soul's immortality, so they have no fear of death and go out to embrace danger." From Iamblichus' Life of Pythagoras, Book XX, ~AD300 A more contemporary example would include Jihad warriors and suicide bombers blasting body parts all over the street with unswerving faith in the fiction of a heavenly afterlife.

The misguided belief that the self is of utmost importance is an understandable survival tactic because it covers up the doubts over existence but it can also lead to a sense that nothing else matters so when those feelings are at an emotional nadir suicide is the only way out. Much of self-destruction is commensurate with the degree of ambient social anomie, that being the realization of eroding values, disillusionment and failed beliefs. But only if one is so wrapped up in those illusions that you have no inner worth outside of them. Self-destruction is an egotistical expression. It's like saying 'I can't get the gratification my ego says I deserve so nothing matters anymore because it's only me that is of any importance'. Shortening perception down to the nearsighted limits of the Id and reflexive impulse is a bumpy ride indeed. It's trying to steer a speeding car staring at the road directly beneath the front bumper of the vehicle!

Physics doesn't care, genetics is pitiless, and the whole universe doesn't give a damn because it is all operating on a time scale significantly longer than any single human life. For instance if you were the only one on Earth, your value is 100 percent. Add another and it drops to 50 percent, four equals? And 6 billion equals? This is not negating individual value and input, it's just trying to put it in a more accurate context. Trade unions highlight this with the concept of worker solidarity and general strikes; meaning that although any single worker or individual can be easily replaced by another to work for the system, collectively the public has a significant power.

Ego value must be placed in proper perspective because inflated self-worth without the evidence to support it is not a pretty picture. It's time to tone the hyperbole down a bit and find something valid to substantiate your ego instead of just making it up.

Death to the Money Morality

Pol Pot was the only communist ever to have gone so far as to actually put his money where his mouth is, revolutionarily speaking, and ban currency entirely. It's also the only thing he ever regretted doing. Few Americans would ever dream of trying what Pol Pot did because they love money. But the love of money is also viewed as a negative thing so it's carried under the proxy banner of the 'free economy' of unfettered capitalist trade, which sounds more acceptable because it implies that even people without any money can potentially acquire copious amounts of it too, someday, perhaps ... not.

However anymore this disingenuous-ness is the source of significant criticism from both ends of the political spectrum. It may be called a 'free market' but that phrase could not be more misleading. If it's a free market why is everything regulated? And why do the rules keep changing? And why do the same people keep winning? The true power of a government is money - the ability to print it, spend it and tax it. Rob authority of that power and you have an impotent regime, laws are useless and the military will quit if you don't pay them. Pol Pot's lament! Ultimately it's impossible to have any kind of equitable system and certainly not any element of social harmony within a true free market without vitiating the cultural values of the money morality.

Few know this but before World War II only a very few rich Americans had to pay any income taxes. It was not until Roosevelt's war and the trillions spent maintaining the ruse of the Cold War did average Americans have to pay anything to the federal government in income taxes! But as a side benefit to government, high taxes make subsidies that much more effective, meaning it enhances their ability to enact value goals. After all, a tax break doesn't work if your not paying anything to begin with. Higher taxes makes the government stronger but it makes the open market weaker and that actually makes getting things done, built or created, tougher.

But first let's back up a bit, what is money and an economy anyway? Money is like water, it always flows downhill but what it does in between can be manipulated and the economy is like the topology, the surface land. Within a fluid, open economy, the most powerful influence enacting desired values is the tax code. Taxes and money laws are like the dams and canals for waterways. It is a universal rule that a person will work harder if they think it benefits them personally, this is the 'secret' to capitalist success. An open economy plus regulated tax and financial codes create the incentive, and the entrepreneurs and industrialists go for the bait and construct the valued items and goals in the process.

Remember, money is a symbol, the cash you spend on beer, pizza, rent or anything else is called fiat currency because it's not backed by gold or anything of value except the reputation of the printing agency, in the case of America this is the Federal Reserve for bills and the Treasury for coins. Governments love this kind because the money supply can be inflated (printed up) at any time in any (reasonable) amount as deemed necessary for political or economic reasons. The consequence for this is a decline in value; for instance the British Pound has lost 100% of it's value over 100 years, meaning what could be bought with a penny then, now takes an entire Pound note. America has a loophole called 'Dollar hegemony' but that's another story.

But the point is that money is a symbol, the tax policy is a tool, and both are value neutral in and of themselves. It would be self-destructive to eliminate them because it's not the money, it's not even the economy, it's the values stupid! (A bumper sticker slogan for nihilists!) The values and the people pushing those values are the problem. they use those tools to generate the product. Economics is riddled with value judgments, for example should we take the expensive option and recycle everything thereby increasing present living conditions? Or just throw it away decreasing living conditions but giving us more money to spend to perhaps fix the problem? Here's another fairly neutral example, the tax structure, coupled with values such as home ownership, privacy and national defense created the interstate highway system, the suburbs, the private real estate market, and the axis of American money purchases - the house. Suburbia was crafted through favoritism in tax laws driven by a desire for neat, private, single family dwelling away from the city. A goal that simple generated (probably) the largest movements of people and construction endeavors in world history. Values drive the vision, and in an open economy the vision is built using money tools.

The industrialists, the entrepreneurs, they will always follow the money, they always follow the simplest and most consistent of rules - personal profit. Collective success comes not form vitiating these dupes but from manipulating them.

Death to Love

Even the most enigmatic and bathetic of topic for poets and philosophers, love, is just simple chemicals in the brain. Sexual and maternal bonding is just oxytocin from the pituitary gland. Love is the triumph of group over individual, of gene over carrier, it's a temporary insanity of sorts that shuts down parts of the brain that might start asking inconvenient questions at the wrong time. At best, love is merely a synchronous delusion, or as H.L. Mencken put it, "love is the triumph of imagination over intelligence."

Love is primarily an irrational expression, this contention is supported by the stunningly typical expression of regret all relationships encounter when the chemicals wear off. Think of how many marriages end in divorce. Besides that, the modern divorce rate is more an expression of the freedom western society allows within relationships and the egregious allowances of love that have not been enjoyed on a comparable scale anywhere in recorded history. Instead of having a mate chosen by parents, clan or lack of alternatives within cloistered societies, the decision rests solely upon the individuals personal discretion, or lack of it. So this decision is now determined by the fleeting whims of emotion with minimal social pressure for long-term success or even a fundamental compatibility between individuals! Thus cohabitation is increasingly popular because it's a superficial way of circumventing the issue of legal partnership entirely.

The vast majority have no idea what they really want out of life or a relationship - it's all fantasies and imagination destined for a rude realization when it's too late anyway. The victims of this widespread, stupidity, ignorance and social-incompetence are the children of such relationships. We'd all be better off if they'd just grasp the fact that if you can't get it right don't do it at all. Unfortunately for the rest of us and social harmony in general, our present errant culture prides itself on perpetuating the triumph of love over reason, not to mention mental and physical health.

Knowing this doesn't make the effect of love any less powerful but the awareness of being manipulated coupled with the powerlessness to rise above creates a maddening feeling, a negative stimulus in stark contrast to the positive of acquiescence. This demonstrates how much of human behavior has no thought involved at all but is just predictable reactions. Freedom? Liberty? One wonders!

The only inalienable rights are those derived from the genetic imperative, all else is fiction. And yet to defy that nature is not only counterproductive but essentially impossible. Well, that's not quite the final word. As modern scientific advances have readily shown, human ingenuity has developed remarkable ways of cheating the system for short term gain even as the long term costs approach staggering proportions.

Death to Philosophy

"The most incomprehensible thing about the universe is that it is comprehensible," Albert Einstein. Philosophy fixates on the apparent complexity of nature and classical thinkers ponder the grandeur and mystery of the universe. Yet one who constructs a conclusion using the building blocks of scientific knowledge eventually reaches a stunning, inescapable, yet diametrically opposed conclusion. Existence is so absurdly simple it's utterly disheartening.

Yet simultaneously the source of life's excitement is the unknown, the chance and risk residing within all new encounters. Take it away, make everything predictable, knowable and the result is stasis, boredom, hatred for life and eventual suicide. Making things predictable has the unintended effect of eroding grandeur and destroying drama. Just think of the simple fact that the laws of the universe and biology are all even capable of being comprehended with a modicum of human effort. The fact that things are both consistent and quite understandable is utterly devastating to philosophical thought.

Popular perceptions are really just profound misunderstandings of simplicity. Welcome to reality - mystery is dead, philosophy is dead, faith is dead, love is dead, and hedonism is boring. [2]

Death to Liberty

Like so many other ideals the populace desires, although they may wish for freedom from control they don’t wish to live with the consequences. Wars are declared, invasions launched and authority enforced all in the name of freedom. Nearly every political or social movement and economic reform is based on precepts of freedom, liberty and so on. Free economics only enriches the already rich. Adam Smith’s 18th century treatise ‘The Wealth of Nations’ on unfettered market capitalism was the philosophical groundwork for Laissez Faire economics or as he called it ‘a system of perfect liberty’. Over 200 years later we’ve found that pure freedom does not and never has existed. What does exist, and always has, is a system of power and authority and each side continually attempting to maximize its own benefit often at the expense of the other side. The ironic truth is that the most desirable system of government is one that doesn’t work!

People don’t really want freedom and liberty because that means other people will have freedom and liberty too. What most really want is safety and regulation and a double standard. People really want equal opportunity but no responsibility for their own failures within a system based on merit, but at the same time one that blocks new entrants in order to keep out the competition and hold what they’ve earned (or stolen). The only remotely effective system of controlled power and the maintenance of freedom yet found is one that pits one side against another in a standoff. The Mutual Assured Destruction (MAD) policy with the Cold War’s nuclear weapons was 50 years of pseudo-peace.

In actuality personal freedom and liberty is a lofty, hazy ideal that is continually being used by despots and democrats alike to sugarcoat their policy actions just long enough to get the public to swallow a poison pill. The French Revolution, one of the bloodiest and most fratricidal civil wars in modern history, was founded on the three ideals of liberty, equality and fraternity. Despite the fervency of the participant’s beliefs in those three values the outcome had little if anything connected to them, just the twisting torment of a hopelessly distorted society attempting to reconcile archaic values with modern realities. Not until a military dictator took power did any group begin to get the things they wanted and it didn’t take long for Napoleon to piss away France’s military conquests after that! Hell of a long way to go just to get the metric system!

Real freedom and liberty is barely recognizable when compared to the nebulous ideal. Complete liberty is a myth and real freedom is a compromise because every human individual exists within and because of a complex network of social connections and inter-relationships. In practice nobody can just do anything they want because the freedom of one will invariably impinge upon the freedom of another!

Death to Morality

The time to take out the trash and clean up the human detritus is way past due, the stink of rot gets worse everyday. The issue of waste product sterilization is no longer a when but a how. At least three approaches to this problem are presented here. The most effective option is to simply level the skyline and let everything sort itself out, allowing the survival process to weed out the whiners and idiots. Another less preferable but more exciting option is a campaign of assassination and euthanasia. This has the benefit of targeting the source of the mental and environmental pollution, but even though it's the simplest and least painful option it's also the most publicly reviled, because of course all murder is morally reprehensible regardless of the behavior or the poison spewing from the person. The third and least preferable option is the prolonged suffering of the status quo, meaning letting human nature slowly subvert the immense, accumulated edifice of artificial laws intended to protect people from themselves. This is the contemporary world in the urban sewer of drug abuse, sexually transmitted diseases, violence and mental as well as environmental damage. This is the least preferable option because it's such a reckless process that often misses it's target.

The source of our present pains of collective angst necessitating such drastic actions is not in debate. It has had a death-grip on western civilization for centuries culminating in the present lunge at world domination while yielding generation after generation of compounded mistakes. The death of all religious, mystical, theological, dogmatic and faith-based morality is the only task of true concern. These morality systems are public enemy number 1, 2, 3 and 4000. Anything and everything 'good', 'evil' or ambivalent that works towards the total vitiation of them from the public conscience is more than preferable it is necessary because it's what put us in this chthonic wasteland we're collectively in today.

Why? Because that morality says that everyone is the same, the lowest trash, the weakest cripple in mind and body is just as important as the most beautiful or brilliant. Everyone knows instinctively that this is total garbage but religion negates instinct, it contradicts human nature and teaches everyone to hate their humanity, to hate and detest everything that they naturally are, to utterly despise the very reason for their existence and replace it entirely without question or criticism with a groveling faith in slavery to a mystical master. Instead of balance and order in life it only brings imbalance and disorder, a chronic sense of unease and an artificial chaos that can only be alleviated through deeper subservience to the all-mighty holy answer-man and his earthly representatives. Instead of normal human nature to love friends and hate enemies it teaches the fantasy of total (spiritual) love. Instead of criticism and independent thought it teaches obedience and repetitive oaths of faith.

In contrast to the do-what-God-and-his-holy-book-says morality, nihilistic morality is beautifully simple, it's to be what you are. A true freedom to be sure, and yet no freedom is free. The catch is you must take responsibility for everything that you do. You can't deflect it to the Devil or to God but only to yourself. Nor has causality been repealed. If you look you'll notice that the universe has it's own way of punishing intransigence because there's no 'free lunch' and every benefit has a cost, every reward comes with a price tag. "Indeed, against these [natural] laws revolt is not only forbidden - it is even impossible. We may misunderstand them or not know them at all, but we cannot disobey them; because they constitute the basis and fundamental conditions of our existence." - Bakunin

Artificial law is primarily an exercise in futility because forcing someone to be something they aren't inevitably leads to repression, perversion and anguish. Nihilism rejects human justice because it is based upon the whims of fashion and culture, meaning morality. It is not based upon fact or what actually happens, indeed most every historical example of morality is one of a square peg being forced through a round hole.

The destruction of all this sick system in its entirety is inevitable because it is wholly unsustainable, the only factor in question is how long will it take and how prolonged will the suffering be? Yet even that inevitability will not stop the politicos, industrialists, media bosses with their bevy of leeches and whores living off it from doing everything they can to keep it alive indefinitely.

No one really wants to swim in shit, but It's going to take a little more than chlorine to clean out this pool. Try drain and refill.
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*May i make note that this is not my work im to lazy type out what has already been said by others....*
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Nihilism is NOT the 'belief in nothing'.
Nihilism IS skepticism coupled with reduction, and furthermore it is the realization that there is/are no:

1. teleology
2. wrong or right - just cause and effect
3. sacred principles, along with taboo, heresy and blasphemy.

... and that:
4. artificial morality and values are subjective, elastic, fungible and impermanent
5. that which is self-evident requires no belief, for it has an independent, objective existence and self-continuation.

While Nihilism rejects:
6. faith, and everything necessitated by it.

And Nihilism uses:
7. Occam's Razor
8. logic

While recognizing:
9. natural selection
10. sustainable idea-sets have minimized internal contradictions.

Furthermore even if it can be shown that one element has flaws this does not demonstrate that any or all of the remaining points are flawed as well.

5) Self-Evident. For example, one does not need faith in the objective principle or the word-symbol 'gravity' to know that if you jump off a cliff you will fall to the bottom, or that if you punch a wall it will hurt your fist. This concept segues into the idea of pain and sensations which although they can be distorted, they are still consistent and these neurological signals are the same throughout the animal kingdom. A needless fixation on the basic chemical and electrical properties (or beyond) does not invalidate the fundamental purpose they serve for the biological organism.

9) Natural Selection. One path is selected over another for a reason. "Natural selection is a mechanism for generating an exceedingly high degree of improbability." R. A. Fisher. Nor through divine guidance since this is unsupported by any evidence and rejected using the principle of Occam's Razor. Rather natural selection outcome is a product of surroundings and the unceasing struggle of adaptation and the search for success. This process should not be confused with a value, which is an arbitrary choice by a human mind such as saying the color blue is better than the color purple. Whatever mind-games the philosophers want to play, one can debate where it leads and why, but none of that matters. Occam's Razor again - because natural selection reflects the framework that not only we as biological entities exist within but the entire universe operates upon that principle as a result of being a finite system. Everything either succeeds or it fails.
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*The Next Item is The Nihilist Vision Though not all Nihilist agree 100% with this is hits pretty close to the head....(THis Once again is not my work do not attack me for the writers ideas....i agree with most though so ill defend most of the ideas here in.....*
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Many ask 'what are the benefits of nihilism, what do I get out of it'? 'isn't it all just darkness and futility'? Hardly! Catch a glimpse, imbibe the nihilistic vision! Although these images and ideas may seem anachronistic, their power and significance should not be underestimated. It's about a chance to begin again without the shackles of history and the burden of accumulated lies and myths. A new world where you matter because of what you are and what you can do not where you are or what you own. The vision is crucial because one can't conquer the flaws of the present without first imagining the form of the future.

The CounterOrder credo: To invert consensus, extract the reciprocal of orthodoxy, turn the world upside down, shake it and see what fails and what remains.

The nihilistic vision is a positive result extracted from a negative event. This vision is very much an apocalypse but only for those that have had their chance and ruined it for everyone, the failing, ruling-elite. Yet for everyone else interested in health and renewal it is a brilliant new dawn. This momentous change is of the near future, looming and portentous angry and promising like a storm on the horizon. People fear the consequences but the shrewd revel in the bountiful opportunities bestowed by the aftermath for the best time to rebuild is after the storm. For those who heed - prepare for the beginning, it's closer than you think.

The beginning is the end of sin. All transgressions both individual and collective are forgiven and national crimes annulled. There is no redemption ... but there is no guilt ; there is flawed, human conduct ... but no false justifications.

Level the cities those putrid piles of poison. Dense population concentrations characteristic of metropolis' only serve to provide ideal incubators for new and ever more pernicious sickness'. While deforestation and urban sprawl scatter and disturb natural wildlife allowing disease and vectors to thrive and spread when they would otherwise be kept in check by the natural balance of life. Once these cancers are razed regionalism will finally triumph over globalism. Instead of blanket edicts from on high rules and solutions will start and address where they're needed - locally.

Time will no longer accrue into infinity but rather will count down to the next beginning. The calendar will no longer start at 1 but end there. 100-1? 500-1? Details, details... At the top of time, all chains broken, all previous debts public and private will be annulled, all currency voided, all laws deleted.

All paper and electronic money will be zeroed out while title records will be burned and destroyed to reset property ownership and eliminate the tyranny of fictional wealth and the institutions that perpetuate it. Faceless bureaucrats can't manage your care in old age or any age without theft or mismanagement because they have no inherent concern for your well being as only the self does. All buildup, all waste legislation, paperwork, and currency emptied and distributed for recycling and fuel for warming homes.

Instead of building mechanical machines without care or spirit we will build humans using what we have and what has already been perfected by millennia. It will be death to the cog and piston, life to the living. The beauty of organic carbon life will be appreciated rather than the artificial lifelessness of the silicon chip. Progress will mean gradually improving near-perfection rather than reinventing from scratch what can never be but imperfect mechanical machines. A respect for life and it's infinite potential rather than paving over it. Your greatest gift is your mind and body; don't waste it - utilize it.

Sexual intercourse as reproduction is the worship of life and natural human behaviour. Through the acceptance of instinct rather than the futile attempt to ignore it forcing it out as perversion, repression and mental illness, the genetic imperative is finally unshackled as the one true owner of the human soul. An effort to break the binders that restrict our society meaninglessly, creating a realm of freedom to say what you feel and expound what you believe for a life to be used but not abused while seeking sensations and smarts amid the unclouded clarity of cogent comprehension.

Everyone will have a new name, finally every individual will have the opportunity to describe themselves not as someone else decides but as they decide. What will matter is not what role you play in the dramatic farce of contemporary society but who you are and what you can contribute. This will finally divide the parasites and the producers. Only those that can and do participate to rebuild will receive any reward or status. The parasites receive nothing but ostracism and death.

Safe havens for solitude and sanity will exist in a physical and non-literal sense allowing for introspection imagination and reasoning unfettered or oppressed by the intrusive presence of authority. This freedom of the mind is as important to human life as air and water.

Destruction to the false protectors of harmony and society.All police and military dissolved with their weapons distributed to the participatory social contributors; because the only person that can really defend you is yourself. Through a network of individual 'armies' collective and individual defense assumes its proper role. Thus we each gain freedom, self-sufficiency, purpose and safety which makes for healthier minds and bodies.

A plan is secondary to the ideas because the artificial structures around us, the outcome is a product of the collective vision and once concepts are implemented details sort themselves out afterwards. New and superior product will grow on the ash heaps of the old.

The events of the 21st century will not be written by the powers of the 20th. These forces though appearing unstoppable today are nevertheless doomed by their very own endogenous flaws; their day in the sun is about to be done. Many will try to revive and reuse but they will all fail, merely replaying the same destructive inevitable. The weakness' of authorities are the strengths of freedom.

World history is punctuated by deluded masters of conflict, Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, Napoleon even Hitler. What are they known for? Conquering everything and unifying nothing. The nihilistic vision will conquer nothing and unify everything. Today you have the luxury of making the decision your descendants can't, choose carefully which side of the bulldozer to be on.
_______
And Lastly The Nihilism Manifesto......
_______

THE NIHILISM MANIFESTO

Why Nihilism?

&nsbp;&nsbp;Nihilism is considered evil, extreme, something so bad that many refuse to use the word to describe themselves even when the label would be apt. Others use the term to try and silence enemies.

Yet I consider myself a Nihilist and I’m not crazy or attention seeking, I’m just trying to label my feelings and ideas as accurately as possible. I look around and I don’t see any belief set or political stripe that I can believe in, not even one I could feign allegiance to! This world offers me nothing to hope in, a society where cowards and failures are defined as heroes and role models, where war is called peace and death is called life. I hate what I see, and despise those responsible for it all. Immigrants to America have been told the streets are paved in gold but all I see are potholes and weeds growing in the ever-expanding cracks. We’re given shit and told we can build skyscrapers with it. I’m sick of lies and fantasies and all the reeking fumes that support our pseudo-pop-culture and vapid values. How does it make you feel?

So many problems and issues have become so complicated and convoluted yet we are socially compelled to keep trying, to keep banging our heads against brick walls and each other to find a peaceful, happy solution; why? Who says I have to buy into this? Who says I have to buy into religion and a mainstream belief sets? Why am I being compelled to die for my country right or wrong? Why is our society placing so much effort into stopping drug abuse and suicide even as the rates of both continue to climb?

Maybe instead of treating the symptoms we should target the source – the utter lack of substance behind contemporary values. People kill themselves because they are driven by lies, people drug themselves to escape a living hell and find a dying peace. Fuck it; why not just blow it all to hell and at least have hope of starting over?

The typical answer in democracy is to just increase inclusiveness. By this reasoning the more people participate the more they will be happy with the outcome. Ha! What does it really generate? More talk, less action, more conflict and less results. Solutions never come from endless dialogue they come from movement and change.

It’s delusional to think that every situation has a solution achievable through construction, that every wound can be healed with a bandage. It’s that stereotypical cockeyed American optimism which deems every problem rectifiable through a smile and a nod. Destruction is often desirable, nay the optimal solution, yet in our ambient culture it is always addressed as the last option, why?

Nietzsche once wrote, "All good things were formerly bad things.” Maybe we should rethink guns, drugs and disease. I think I like every force humanity can’t conquer, every force that destroys to live and forces the living to fight or die and thus creates a reason for life.

Now is the time to revaluate everything; now is the time for Nihilism.

Nihilism Defined

Nihilism is a view composed of skepticism coupled with reduction. 'Political' Nihilism is active, not passive, and dictionary-defined as the realization "that conditions in the social organization are so bad as to make destruction desirable for its own sake independent of any constructive program or possibility." In his 1861 novel Fathers And Sons, author Ivan Turgenev accurately defined this worldview, "A nihilist is a person who does not bow down to any authority, who does not accept any principle on faith, however much that principle may be revered."

A common (but misleading) description of nihilism is a 'belief in nothing'. Instead, a far more useful one would substitute 'faith' for 'belief' where faith is defined as the "firm belief in something for which there is no proof." A universal definition of nihilism could then well be the rejection of that which requires faith for salvation or actualization and would span to include anything from theology to secular ideology. Within nihilism faith and similar values are discarded because they've no absolute, objective substance, they are invalid serving only as yet another exploitable lie never producing any strategically beneficial outcome. Faith is an imperative hazard to group and individual because it compels suspension of reason, critical analysis and common sense. Nietzsche once said that faith means not wanting to know. Faith is "don't let those pesky facts get in the way of our political plan or our mystically ordained path to heaven"; faith is "do what I tell you because I said so". All things that can't be disproved need faith, utopia needs faith, idealism needs faith, spiritual salvation needs faith; reject faith.

The second element nihilism rejects is the belief in final purpose, that the universe is built upon non-random events and that everything is structured towards an eventual conclusive revelation. This is called teleology and it's the fatal flaw plaguing the whole rainbow of false solutions from Marxism to Buddhism and everything in between. Teleology compels obedience towards the fulfillment of "destiny" or "progress" or similar such grandiose goals. Teleology is used by despots and utopian dreamers alike as a coercive motivation leading only to yet another apocryphal apocalypse; the real way to lead humanity by the nose - tell them it's all part of the big plan so play along or else! It may even seem reasonable but there is not now and never has been any evidence the universe operates in a teleological way - there is no final purpose. This is the simple beauty nihilism has that no other idea-set does. By breaking free from the tethers of teleology one is empowered in outlook and outcome because for the first time it's possible to find answers without proceeding from pre-existing perceptions. We're finally free to find out what's really out there and not just the partial evidence to support original pretext and faulty notions only making a hell on earth in the process; reject teleology.

Active or Passive?

The randomness of nature is a powerful asset because it negates the credibility of teleology, that purposeful predestination that undermines freewill. So one actually has the option to passively accept the socio-historically established concoction of false absolutes, 'truth' and moral laws which can be nothing but myth. Or they can accept real for what it is and assume the more healthy role of active participant constantly defining existence through perception and intelligence. In this way defining existence is predicated upon life, conscious awareness of sensory input combined with critical interpretation of what that input means. And the more highly developed the conscious or the greater the intelligence the more effective and meaningful is existence.

Passivity is a myth. We are all intricately enmeshed within a dynamic system that doesn't just demand but compels active decision making.

Direction

Often what appears to be the 'extreme' message is actually just tomorrow's story today. One can ignore it and panic when it does arrive or learn from it and be ahead of your time prescient, prepared and devoid of fear or panic. We live in a dynamic era where traditional values have been warped by authorities to serve unjust ends contrary to public interests. It's an era of contradiction that often necessitates counterintuitive conduct, where sanity is nihilism and patriotism is sedition. The recourse for survival within this context of the erosion of traditional meaning is nihilism.

Nihilism is the organic, reasoned response to artificial chaos, the intentional chaos manufactured by government, religion and mass-media.

A plan is secondary to the ideas because the artificial structures around us, the outcome is a product of the collective vision and once concepts are implemented details sort themselves out afterwards. The new will grow on the ash heaps of the old. Today you have the luxury of making a decision no one else can make for you, choose carefully which side to be on.

"The beginning of a revolution is in reality the end of a belief."
- Gustave Le Bon

Death to Philosophy

Death to God

Death to Government

Death to Ideology

Death to Money

Death to Love

Death to Morality

Beyond right and left, beyond right and wrong...
http://www.counterorder.com/nihilism_bw.jpg

The Garbage Disposal Unit
2nd July 2005, 16:39
a. Goddamn, if you're just going to repost long articles, be good enough to go through and properly reformat them, instead of leaving debris everywhere. C'est gross.

b. The rhetoric is beautiful, but a lot of the analysis is really shallow and contridictory, in particular the approach to culture, which reads like it came from an old issue of Adbusters. Likewise, the approach to government is lacking - simply saying "We hate centralized authority! It kills!" doesn't touch the origins, purpose, or class nature of the state - rather crucial in developing a meaningful understanding.

Clean up the article a bit, then I'll elaborate.

Moral_Imbalance
2nd July 2005, 16:42
yeah i didnt notice it while i was posting ive taken care of it

bombeverything
3rd July 2005, 00:56
Looks interesting. I will read this and get back to you. It is really long and I don't have time to read it at the moment.

restin256
3rd July 2005, 01:51
I find it kind of odd that Nihilism could be applied to politics. If I were feeling nihilistic, I wouldn't really give a fuck about the state of the world, but just wait for my make-believe life to be over so I can get back to whatever I was doing.

Bazarov0
3rd July 2005, 02:53
Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 12:51 AM
I find it kind of odd that Nihilism could be applied to politics. If I were feeling nihilistic, I wouldn't really give a fuck about the state of the world, but just wait for my make-believe life to be over so I can get back to whatever I was doing.
Make believe life? Nihilism destroys that which is make-believe. Maybe you think that Nihilism is a belief that nothing exists, but no it is not. That most definetely would be a fantasy, but it requires faith which the nihilist perception recognizes to be an indulgence in subjective nothingness. Your misconception of Nihilism puts forward to me that you have not read the article above. No matter, But I would like it next time if you would substantiate your claims and read about what Nihilism is.

Some of the factors of Nihilism: Extreme Skepticism, a devaluation of all value, rejection of religion, ideology, philosophy, ethics, morality, traditional value, absolute value...and faith is recognized as indulgence in subjective nothingness.(note that this isn't the full definition)

restin256
3rd July 2005, 08:19
Your misconception of Nihilism puts forward to me that you have not read the article above.

You totally caught me. I apologise. As I understood, though, Nihilism is the idea that issues in reality don't actually matter (the first two paragraphs of this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nihilism) being my source), so from it I would draw the above. Next time I'll get a better understanding of something before putting my two cents in. :)

OleMarxco
3rd July 2005, 08:26
This article almost seems like an manifesto on everything that's good, well, beside a few things obviously - God, Government and Money ;)

redstar2000
3rd July 2005, 16:23
The more I look at this stuff, the more it just looks like fascist garbage.


Instead of having a mate chosen by parents, clan or lack of alternatives within cloistered societies, the decision rests solely upon the individual's personal discretion, or lack of it.

Can't have that, can we? Imagine...people choosing their own mates for themselves.

Horrors!


The only inalienable rights are those derived from the genetic imperative, all else is fiction.

And we know what those are, right? The "strong" (however defined) rule the "weak"...who must submit or be killed.


The most effective option is to simply level the skyline and let everything sort itself out, allowing the survival process to weed out the whiners and idiots.

Yeah...all those "citified" weaklings will perish and the "genetically superior" will survive and flourish.


Because that morality says that everyone is the same, the lowest trash, the weakest cripple in mind and body is just as important as the most beautiful or brilliant.

Really, the "beautiful" and "brilliant" ought to just kill and eat "the lowest trash".

Guys like Stephen Hawking must pose a real dilemma for nihilists...they're "not supposed to exist".


Level the cities, those putrid piles of poison.

That we superior folk might roam the ancient Teutonic forests once more.


Instead of building mechanical machines without care or spirit we will build humans using what we have and what has already been perfected by millennia.

Romanticist crap.


Sexual intercourse as reproduction is the worship of life and natural human behaviour.

Every fascist would agree.

This thread is moved to Opposing Ideologies...where it belongs.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

Moral_Imbalance
3rd July 2005, 17:23
Fascism.
1. often Fascism
1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.
2. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

Lets see here.....Goverment...hmmm i see no goverment in this vision....nor do i see a dictator.....

Its says nothin about Natural Selection .....

My Friend you use the word Fascist to freely....
we are not fascist.....


Really, the "beautiful" and "brilliant" ought to just kill and eat "the lowest trash".

Guys like Stephen Hawking must pose a real dilemma for nihilists...they're "not supposed to exist".

What the fuck?

redstar2000
3rd July 2005, 18:22
Are you really that naive...or ignorant?

The themes in that post, from which I quoted extensively, are all echoed in fascist ideology...at enormous length!

Whether any contemporary "political nihilist" calls himself a fascist or not is irrelevant. When you embrace a fascist outlook, the rest is just details.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

The Garbage Disposal Unit
3rd July 2005, 18:26
Fascist? Not exactly, but philosophically, this particular nihilism has some frighteningly similar, idealist, approaches. What, however, are the practical implications? The practical nihilist political programme - the "reseting" of everything - lays the groundwork for history to repeat itself. The equalization of property (assuming such a bizarre idea were desirable or posible) fails to recognise the fundamental functioning of capital, and the tendency for wealth to accumulate, and monopolies to form. At best, nihilism promises us a period of brutal Polpotism and industrial collapse, followed, presumably, by the restoration of capital and its associated structures (including the state, etc.). Ironically, for their claims to hyper-materialism, this particular strand of so-called nihilists has developed a bizarre, simplistic, reductionist, approach to human society and behavior.

Organic Revolution
3rd July 2005, 19:07
at the end of moral imbalances long boring post it says death to philosophy and ideology, but i remeber him calling what he belives in a ideology... some one is a hypocrite.

bombeverything
4th July 2005, 00:11
Ok, I have read it. This is my analysis. By the way, I am aware that none of you actually wrote this article, but I find it easier to reply as if you had ;). Overall I found it quite interesting, however I feel that it was simplistic at times (although it seems almost proud of this), and failed to recognize the numerous links between the state AND government, god, morality and so on. Some parts also sound quite fascist and judgmental.


Mass murder is not a natural state of affairs but rather one that must be organized and engineered by a central authority. From Mao Tse Tung to Pol Pot, only government powered by wayward ideology can compel it's citizens to obey such destructive dictates

First of all, in your analysis you seem to be limiting (or even denying) the role of the state in this process. Are you opposed to the state or government? There is a significant difference between the two. The state always remains, however the government is simply the body within the state that claims legitimate authority to make laws.


It takes a government to create mass starvation; look at Zimbabwe today under the guidance of the racist Marxist Robert Mugabe. Why do North Koreans eat grass and sell human flesh for food? It's not because they don't know how to farm, it's because food production is controlled by the central authority

Yes, but you seem to be underestimating the importance of political power in shaping these economic arrangements. The state will always, by it’s very nature, establish monopolies in favour of ruling minorities.


Highlighted in a recent book review - the conveniently forgotten war crimes perpetrated by the Communist liberators of Germany. Those heroes of the Motherland somehow found the time between shaking hands with allied American soldiers and building 'Iron Curtains' to gang rape, literally every woman they could get their hands on throughout eastern Europe. The author wryly states "If anything, the events of 1945 reveal how thin the veneer of civilization can be when there is little fear of retribution. It also suggests a much darker side to male sexuality than we might care to admit."

This part is problematic to say the least. First, communism refers to a stateless, classless society. The Soviet Union was not communist. Second, you seem to be making a lot of judgments here, and the terminology appears quite exaggerated. I am also concerned about the part about male sexuality. Surely rape is more about power than sexuality?


All animal species operate under the same sexual principle of reproduction by every means possible and (news flash) most of those bipeds so generously referred to as Homo sapiens have very little inner desire to actually act like human beings when they can act like animals instead. That's what it's really about.

Once again, we revert to the human nature argument. Assumptions such as this are not enough to back up an argument.


Death to communism, death to fascism, and death to everything in between. What did either side gain besides some 30 million dead?!

You cannot get rid of a political and economic theory merely by destroying it in name only. It is not the name of communism, or fascism or freedom itself that is problematic, but the power structure that lead to and allowed the atrocities carried out in its name in the first place. For instance modern politicians always talk about fighting for ‘freedom’. Most anarchists would not believe that it is the idea of freedom that is the problem, but the hierarchical political structure of the state that necessitates that individuals subordinate their will to the power of authority, who will determine for them what is right and wrong (e.g. what is ‘freedom’). Such leaders do not really believe in what they are preaching, but they use the ideology to gain political support. This also occurs with religious doctrines.


And could this dearth of logical purpose explain rampant consumerism, drug abuse, entertainment escapism and suicide?

No, not alone. There are many other factors that might contribute to these things. People only have a few chosen outlets when they feel shit, and within a capitalist society, these tend to be those mentioned above. This feeling of a lack of purpose has not caused these problems, but has resulted from the limited options available for people to develop and grow in the conformist material world within which we live.


It's human nature.

Arrgh. What is human nature?!


Some are more predisposed than others to need the lies.

How is this? Surely no one needs the lies.


But even within the modern western world the effects of science and technology changing, revolutionizing and discrediting tradition are taking their toll, school shooting anyone?

Are you referring to the Columbine school shooting? How was technology responsible for this? Being taunted every day at school would have clearly been more influential in making someone want to shoot people than music or a computer game.


The secondary benefit to achieving these coveted status' is that it enhances every other element of social success; celebrities never have any problems finding money or mates.

Wouldn’t this be more related to money and status, rather than a sole need for immortality?


But the point is that money is a symbol, the tax policy is a tool, and both are value neutral in and of themselves. It would be self-destructive to eliminate them because it's not the money, it's not even the economy, it's the values stupid! (A bumper sticker slogan for nihilists!) The values and the people pushing those values are the problem. they use those tools to generate the product.

This seems to be a common theme. These values are shaped by the society we live in. Simply destroying the values and the people who hold them leaves the source (the social and political structure) of these values untouched, and places the blame on those who are merely victims. We did not create this structure, it existed prior to our birth, and thus was instrumental in shaping us.


Existence is so absurdly simple it's utterly disheartening.

To you maybe.


Death to Liberty

You seem to be referring to destroying liberty in name only. Just because someone claims to be fighting for an ideal, it is simplistic to assume that they really are. How is fighting for the U.S in Iraq fighting for freedom? You yourself accept that this is a lie, yet still seem to believe that the problem lies solely in the ideal, rather than a gross manipulation of an ideal from above.

Liberty in the full sense of the word is necessary for human development and growth. To be dominated by another is to be denied the chance to think and act for oneself, which is the only way to develop one's individuality. Thus the society that maximises the growth of individuality will necessarily be based on voluntary association, rather than authority. None of the above examples that you presented represented this sort of freedom in any way as freedom is not possible in a hierarchical society. Freedom is possible only within a context of social equality.


The most effective option is to simply level the skyline and let everything sort itself out, allowing the survival process to weed out the whiners and idiots.

Who are these idiots? Where did they come from? Were they born this way? You view of intelligence differs from others, and to assume that someone is an idiot because they think differently from you is arrogant and judgemental. If someone is denied the chance to develop their intelligence, surely the aim would be to combat this structural inequality, rather than accepting it as a given.


Why? Because that morality says that everyone is the same, the lowest trash, the weakest cripple in mind and body is just as important as the most beautiful or brilliant.

How do you determine someone’s worth? You seem to have difficulty accepting that in reality you are not superior to anyone else. Being strong does not make you better. What is beauty? This part is probably the most detestable. Quoting Bakunin after such a statement is insulting and misses the point.


The catch is you must take responsibility for everything that you do.

This is illogical because often, we have no control over what we do. If our options are limited, so are our choices.


The beginning is the end of sin.

There is no such thing as sin.


Today you have the luxury of making a decision no one else can make for you, choose carefully which side to be on.

Lets assume you are right. Surely a person’s environment and upbringing would influence their understanding of the world and thus their decision in this case. How would a person know any different if they are brainwashed from an early age? Within society, people have a limited capacity for decision-making. Failing to take this into account is judgemental and naïve.

Ok, that will do for now. When I get time, I will put up some anarchist literature.

Theodore J. Kaczynski
1st August 2005, 17:23
www.anus.com

Theodore J. Kaczynski
1st August 2005, 17:27
And we know what those are, right? The "strong" (however defined) rule the "weak"...who must submit or be killed.

Typical strawman by the left. In nihilism there is no objective value, hence, might is right does not apply unless in value judgements. Though in objective reality MIGHT usually overwhelms the weak and causes MIGHT to succeed while the weak are eviscerated. You cannot deny that, unless you believe reality is subjective.

Ele'ill
1st August 2005, 17:32
Keep in mind, Theodore J. Kaczynski, that this board isn't made up of leftists. There are a few here and there but most are actually logging on either from prisons or asylums.

Theodore J. Kaczynski
1st August 2005, 17:33
Really, the "beautiful" and "brilliant" ought to just kill and eat "the lowest trash".

Guys like Stephen Hawking must pose a real dilemma for nihilists...they're "not supposed to exist".

You have absolutely no idea what you are regurgitating, please read up on nihilism before your emotions kick in and you begin to spew out crap like this. In nihilism the objective value of Stephen Hawking is equal to that of, say, Conan the Barbarian (if he was real) or Nietzsche. It purely depends on subjective value as to the worth of Hawkings.

Although many nihilists may see aborting a crippled or retarded fetus as beneficial as most will grow up to be a liability than a benefit. Same goes for adult retards and such.

Ele'ill
1st August 2005, 17:41
n nihilism the objective value of Stephen Hawking is equal to that of, say, Conan the Barbarian (if he was real) or Nietzsche...

Or Skeletor.

http://skyscraper.fortunecity.com/andreessen/804/other/skeletor.jpg

I mean just look at that phallic staff.

Xiao Banfa
6th August 2005, 09:11
History is made by those who take power. That power can be used for right or wrong. This is tenous but it's our only chance.

Morality. Hmmm... Sorry mate. I believe that misery of capitalism inflicted on the defenceless and innocent is wrong. It is injust, no matter what bullshit rhetorical Zerzanite wankery you use to cloud that fact.

Where are the achievement of the nihilists? Nechaev? Go back to your bedroom.

Linuxer
15th August 2005, 10:41
Hello, this is my first message in this forum :)

I have seen that this debate has "dead" and has desviated from his title too.
I think Nihilism and Anarchism have a lot of things in common, but also have their differences. It's important to say, of course, that there are a lot of types of Anarchism, but basicly two: the individualist and the socialist.

Nihilism is very similar to the Anarchoindividualism, and they are totally compatible. Actually, Émile Armand rejects to think and plan a new future society, he says that it's is more important to live ever yday. Although, Armand seems to have some moral values, that you can, of course, destroy. I would recommend to everyone interested in that to read The Individualist Anarchism: what is, what can do and what costs (Probably in wouldn't be the title in English, I have translated it literally from the Spanish edition title). Max Stirner is another individualist that destroys the idea of ideology and the moral values, actually, he is considered by most people a nihilist.

Another thing is to relacionate the Socialist Anarchism with the Nihilism. I don't have sufficient information to talk about the figure of Bakunin, who was Anarchosocialist and Nihilist (I'm not sure if simultaneously). In Counter Order (http://www.couterorder.com/), a well-known nihilist page, they recommend to read God and the State from Bakunin, where he talks about this aspects. But in general, I think that is hard to convinate both theories. Although, you can find similarities between the nietzschean "comunities of overmans" or the Stirnerian "egoist associations" and the Bakuninian "associations of productors". I think that if you place before the individual revolution (rejection of the authority, the moral values and the ideology) to the socialist revolution, it could be a way to convine the two theories. I mean, it would be interesting to live in an anarcho-collectivist or in an anarcho-communist community but only with "emancipated" people, nihilists. As Pisarev, a well-known russian nihilist said: "Multiply the number of thinking minds, that is the alfa and omega of all the social development".


Originally posted by "Tino Rangatiratanga"+--> ("Tino Rangatiratanga")Morality. Hmmm... Sorry mate. I believe that misery of capitalism inflicted on the defenceless and innocent is wrong. It is injust, no matter what bullshit rhetorical Zerzanite wankery you use to cloud that fact. [/b]
Both nihilists and anarchists reject the authority, for this reason and for a lot more, all the nihilists would reject the capitalism. And trying to emancipate the ordinary people, trying to make them nihilists is a way to fight against the capitalism. Nihilists reject both the capitalism and the State. Is more difficult to control intelligent people than stupid people, so if the people values the power of the intelligence and the knowlegment, things like the consumism will be reduced. "They are big because we are kneeled down, let's get up!" said Stirner.


"Tino Rangatiratanga"
Where are the achievement of the nihilists? Nechaev?
They contribuited to the free thinking, they rejected the moral values (it isn't easy to do), they contribuited to the Science and its difusion, they created a new vision of the filosophy, ...
Much of the nihilists archievements are individual archievements, and that's why you don't value them. They showed/show a way to go, and it is your decision to go there or continue believing in artificial things.
Another thing, Nechaev was populist, not nihilist.

I recommend you to read Dialog between a morybund and a priest, written by Sade.

Sorry for my English, it is not my native language.

Salut.

Moral_Imbalance
15th August 2005, 23:03
damn talk about reviving a dead topic......

ÑóẊîöʼn
15th August 2005, 23:42
Nihilism still sucks.