Whats to say this time..

[Patchy]

What I'm talking about when I say this, is what's to say when (If we even do in our lifetimes) some shift into Socialism and then Communism (Personally I'd be happy with Socialis, but it wouldn't happen like that) occurs, it won't be just like most other communist nations that end up in dictatorship? Stalin wasn't a communist, or even a socialist, to me. He was an asshole and a dictator. Same goes for Mao.

How do we know that when things change here, that this isn't going to happen? Giving our all for change and then ending up with a dictator in complete control wouldn't be cool.

Just looking for some input on this possiblity.

[Organic Revolution]

some shift into Socialism and then Communism (Personally I'd be happy with Socialis, but it wouldn't happen like that)
personally i would go with anarchism.


won't be just like most other communist nations that end up in dictatorship?

that is why i go for anarchism... is because it doesnt have leaders therfore, there cannot be another stalin/mao.

[LSD]

Clearly there's no way to "guarantee" that history doesn't repeat itself again, but there are several ways that we can reduce the likelyhood.

One of the most obvious is to analyze where Dictatorships have emerged, what led to them, and what those countries had in common. Quite quickly we realize that a common element among many of them has been an ideology that lends itself to abuse, namely Leninism.

Leninism advocates pushing towards communism by entrusting all powers in a small unaccountable elite. Without fail, every time it has been realized, it has led to brutal authoritarian regimes.

And, honestly, when a system is predicated on wielding of absolute power by a select "vanguard", is it really any wonder that it has led to dictatorial governments?

There are very few "laws" in history, but one of them seems to be that once people have power, they don't give it up without a fight!

Clearly, then, if we do not want to see the emergence of another dictatorial state, our obligation is to not give anyone such powers in the first place.

That way they cannot be abused.

[Clarksist]

Leninism advocates pushing towards communism by entrusting all powers in a small unaccountable elite. Without fail, every time it has been realized, it has led to brutal authoritarian regimes.

And, honestly, when a system is predicated on wielding of absolute power by a select "vanguard", is it really any wonder that it has led to dictatorial governments?


Exactly.

The idea that we would "fall into a dictatorship" isn't correct. Those revolutions were based on a dictator.

If we could have a Communist and not a Marxist revolution, then we could easily drive away dictators by not facilitating them.

[Patchy]

Nice view rise up, makes perfect sense. No dictatorship due to complete lack of leaders. I like it.

I also did not know that communism can be seperated from marxism, but after thinking about it, it's pretty self evident. I like that, a workers revolution, a labourers revolution.

It's good when you learn something.

[Organic Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 12:17 AM
Nice view rise up, makes perfect sense. No dictatorship due to complete lack of leaders. I like it.

I also did not know that communism can be seperated from marxism, but after thinking about it, it's pretty self evident. I like that, a workers revolution, a labourers revolution.

It's good when you learn something.
thanks patchy. as i said before dont let the dictators get a hold.

[monkeydust]

One additional point of clarification should be added here:

If we abolish any notion of a "vanguard party" then yes, we can protect against dictatorship or egregious centralization of power.

But it does not necessarily follow that we can safeguard against cruelty or misery that may be inflicted, such as something comparable - though probably on a much smaller scale - to the devastating collectivization of agriculture in the USSR. Such things are less likely to happen under democratic government; but they could still be ordered and carried out by the masses if they wished.

Again, we don't know for sure how the matter would turn out. But I think it makes sense to retain a sense of pragmatism and to be wary of justifying absolutely any means in pursuit of a noble end.