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coda
2nd July 2005, 03:09
Bam! Nasa's Deep Impact to blow a hole in a comet

Nasa hopes to give astronomers their first peek at the inside of a comet by blasting a stadium-sized hole through one of the heavenly bodies.

If all goes as planned, the Deep Impact spacecraft will release a wine barrel-sized probe on a suicide journey, hurtling toward the comet Tempel 1 -- about 130-million kilometres away from Earth at the time of impact.

"It's a bullet trying to hit a second bullet with a third bullet in the right place at the right time," said Rick Grammier, project manager at Nasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena.

Scientists hope the collision on July 4 will gouge a crater in the comet's surface large enough to reveal its pristine core and perhaps yield cosmic clues to the origin of the solar system. The comet is about half the size of Manhattan, or roughly 28 square kilometres.

Nasa's fleet of space-based observatories -- including the Hubble, Spitzer and Chandra telescopes -- along with an army of ground-based telescopes around the world are expected to record the impact and resulting crater.

The big question is: What kind of fireworks can sky-gazers expect to see from Earth?

Scientists do not know yet. But if the probe hits the bull's-eye, the impact could temporarily light up the comet as much as 40 times brighter than normal, possibly making it visible to the naked eye in parts of the western hemisphere.

"We're getting closer by the minute," Andrew Dantzler, the director of Nasa's solar system division, said earlier this month.

"I'm looking forward to a great encounter on the Fourth of July." If the $333-million (?273-million) mission is successful, Deep Impact will be the first spacecraft to touch the surface of a comet. In 2004, Nasa's Stardust craft flew within 237km of Comet Wild 2 on its way back to Earth carrying interstellar dust samples.

Scientists say Deep Impact has real science value that will hopefully answer basic questions about the solar system's birth.

Comets - frozen balls of dirty ice, rocks and dust -- are leftover building blocks of the solar system after a cloud of gas and dust condensed to form the sun and planets four-and-a-half billion years ago. As comets arc around the sun, their surfaces heat up so that only their frozen interiors possess original space material.

Very little is known about comets and even less is known about their primordial cores. What exactly will happen when Tempel 1 is hit on July 4 is anybody's guess. Scientists believe that the impact will form a circular depression that will eject a cone-shaped plume of debris into space.

But not to worry. Nasa guarantees that its experiment will not significantly change the comet's orbit nor will the smash-up put the comet or any remnants of it on a collision course with Earth.

Discovered in 1867, Tempel 1 is a short-period comet, meaning that it moves around the sun in an elliptical orbit between Mars and Jupiter and can be sighted every six or so years.

The Deep Impact spacecraft shares the same name as a 1998 Hollywood disaster movie about a comet headed straight for Earth.

Nasa says that the names for the space mission and blockbuster movie were arrived at independently around the same time and by pure coincidence.

The spacecraft blasted off from Cape Canaveral, Florida, in mid-January to make its six-month, 431km voyage.

In March, scientists got a scare when test images from one of Deep Impact's telescopes were slightly out of focus. The problem was fixed, and a month later, Deep Impact took its first picture of Tempel 1 from 64-million kilometres away, revealing a big snowball of dirty ice and rock.

Last week, scientists processed the first images of the comet's bright core taken from 32-million kilometres away, which should help the probe zero in on its target.

The real action starts in the early morning of July 3 when the spacecraft separates, releasing a 369km copper probe called the "impactor" on a one-way trip straight into the path of the comet. During the next 22 hours, mission control at Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena will steer both craft toward Tempel 1.

Two hours before the July 4 encounter, the impactor kicks into autopilot, relying on its self-navigating software and thrusters for the rest of the journey to steer toward the sunlit part of the comet's nucleus so that space and Earth-based telescopes can get the best view.

Meanwhile, the spacecraft -- with its high-resolution camera ready -- will veer out of harm's way about 8 000km away, as it stakes out a ringside seat for recording the collision. The spacecraft will make its closest flyby minutes after impact, approaching within 500km.

The collision is expected to occur around 1.52 am EDT when the comet, travelling through space at 10km per second, runs over the impactor, which will be shooting some of the most close-up pictures of Tempel 1 up until its death.

Grammier has likened it to standing in the middle of the road and being hit by a semi-truck going 37 000 kph -- "you know, just bam!" The energy produced by the crash will be like detonating nearly five tonnes of TNT.

The high-speed collision is expected to excavate a crater that can range anywhere from the size of a house to a football stadium, and from two to 14 stories deep. A spew of ice and dust debris will likely shoot out from the newly formed hole, possibly revealing a glimpse of the comet's core.

Scientists say if the comet is porous like a sponge, the impact should produce a stadium-sized crater about 45m deep and 195m wide. This suggests that the comet's inside holds some of the pristine material of the early solar system.

But if the comet is packed like a snowball, the crater formed would be much smaller. Another scenario is that the comet is so porous that most of the impactor's energy is absorbed, creating an even smaller but deep crater.

The mothership has less than 15 minutes to snap images from the cosmic collision and resulting crater before it's bombarded with a blizzard of debris. Scientists expect to receive near real-time data from the impactor and spacecraft.

"We get one chance," said Michael A'Hearn, a professor of astronomy at the University of Maryland and Deep Impact principal investigator. - Sapa-AP


http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=...rticleid=243887 (http://www.mg.co.za/articlepage.aspx?area=/breaking_news/breaking_news__international_news/&articleid=243887)

ÑóẊîöʼn
2nd July 2005, 13:37
Hopefully this mission will greatly increase our knowledge of comets, especially their composition.

Xvall
3rd July 2005, 02:48
Hopefully this mission will greatly increase our knowledge of not spending $333,000,000 to blow up stupid shit in outer space.

symtoms_of_humanity
3rd July 2005, 02:55
Originally posted by Drake [email protected] 3 2005, 01:48 AM
Hopefully this mission will greatly increase our knowledge of not spending $333,000,000 to blow up stupid shit in outer space.
haha yea, what a waste of money NASA is, "spend money on space, not the real problems that need to be taken care of"

violencia.Proletariat
3rd July 2005, 03:04
i wouldnt call this stupid, its just not a priority until everyone is fed, housed and has healthcare.

Xvall
3rd July 2005, 03:17
When a mission costs $333,000,000 and people don't have food, then yes, it is stupid, regardless of whether it's intents are or not.

ÑóẊîöʼn
3rd July 2005, 05:13
Originally posted by Drake [email protected] 3 2005, 02:17 AM
When a mission costs $333,000,000 and people don't have food, then yes, it is stupid, regardless of whether it's intents are or not.
Fuck off. NASA's mandate is space exploration, not feeding the poor.

At the moment, NASA is the best way of employing those with skills in Astronomy and areospace engineering.

Besides, it has been constantly shown that simply throwing money at the poverty probelm doesn't help squat, because corrupt leaders like Mugabe simply hijack the aid - when debts are cancelled, they simply spend the money that's been freed up on personal armies and private jets. I would rather have the money given to NASA, who have proven that they can actually put ther money where there mouth is rather than furnish yet another tinpot dictator with playthings.

NASA needs more funding, not less.

coda
3rd July 2005, 19:16
Well, here is the link to the live webcasts. Should be cool, anyhow!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/watchdeepimp...HBhBHNlYwM5NjQ- (http://news.yahoo.com/s/space/watchdeepimpactscometcollisionviawebcast;_ylt=AjhR WS3SpYXKU.n9EnrdJxus0NUE;_ylu=X3oDMTA3ODdxdHBhBHNl YwM5NjQ-)

http://www.space.com/deepimpact/

http://www.space.com/

bed_of_nails
4th July 2005, 00:10
I just have this bad feeling about altering the course of comets just to see something go "Boom" and see the inside.

OleMarxco
4th July 2005, 00:58
They are all plotting our DOOM! :D
No, really. There are other ways to help than clothing and feeding everyone - a task very hard, if not miracolous, I might also add. We're not saints, not Jesus, but perhaps a benevolent group, if at best. I hope so, atleast...but what if this "shit in space" is threathening us? Then all the materials goods in the world won't mean jack shit! So, if so, then I support. If/not/then/else, and it's "just a test" to flex your "science muscles", Ameriiiica! Then I'll oppose it ;)

bed_of_nails
4th July 2005, 01:00
I must admit I have previously enjoyed the holiday.

The government encourages me to buy these odd little explosives, and "Blow shit up" as my father deftly puts it.

More Fire for the People
4th July 2005, 01:16
Thank God they are finally doing something, NASA is really struggling to acheive something vital. I think saving, expanding, and helping humanity through space science is worth quadroupilling NASA's budget.
You can bull shit about "feeding the poor" but that's the kind of logic that would have prevented the development of the microcomputer so that they could "feed the poor".

If we tried feeding the poor by throwing food at them they would be hungry in a month and the village elite would be the ones with the most.

Xvall
4th July 2005, 02:27
Fuck off. NASA's mandate is space exploration, not feeding the poor.

And the American Army's mandate is waging war, so never criticize them for doing so again.


At the moment, NASA is the best way of employing those with skills in Astronomy and areospace engineering.

It's also the best way of wasting millions of dollars on missions that oftentimes do not even work.


Besides, it has been constantly shown that simply throwing money at the poverty probelm doesn't help squat, because corrupt leaders like Mugabe simply hijack the aid - when debts are cancelled, they simply spend the money that's been freed up on personal armies and private jets.

I never said it should be used to feed the entire world, but considering that our country is falling into a recession, and their are countless sectors of the American community alone that would benifit from the relocation of these funds, perhaps we should be worried about those things before we worry about taking pictures of rocks on mars.


I would rather have the money given to NASA, who have proven that they can actually put ther money where there mouth is rather than furnish yet another tinpot dictator with playthings.

They've also proven that the can forget simple things (like converting to metric) and waste ninety-million dollars.


NASA needs more funding, not less.

Fuck off. The American taxpayer's mandate is the benifit of his or her community, not taking pictures of outer space.

---


You can bull shit about "feeding the poor" but that's the kind of logic that would have prevented the development of the microcomputer so that they could "feed the poor".

The microcomputer was invented by private individuals like Michael J. Cochran, who obtained the patent on their own and did not derive their funding from the American taxpayers.

KC
4th July 2005, 06:00
What nasa gets is nothing in comparison to military spending.

ÑóẊîöʼn
4th July 2005, 13:00
And the American Army's mandate is waging war, so never criticize them for doing so again.

You cannot compare imperialism with space exploration.


It's also the best way of wasting millions of dollars on missions that oftentimes do not even work.

Often? it's obvious you know nothing of NASA's track record. Despite strangulation of funding by the governemt, they are doing well.


I never said it should be used to feed the entire world, but considering that our country is falling into a recession, and their are countless sectors of the American community alone that would benifit from the relocation of these funds, perhaps we should be worried about those things before we worry about taking pictures of rocks on mars.

Please. They do a lot more than 'take pictures'. What recession? Are you advocating reformism?


They've also proven that the can forget simple things (like converting to metric) and waste ninety-million dollars.

If everbody had to live up to your perfectionism, nothing would get done. I don't see you criticising all the military projects that failed (Of which there are much more)


Fuck off. The American taxpayer's mandate is the benifit of his or her community, not taking pictures of outer space.

Your posts prove you know jack shit about science.

Hefer
4th July 2005, 18:56
NASA has contributed to humanity so much. Experiments done in the International Space Station, which can never be done on earth. Helping us understand our place in the universe & our origins. And lets not forget "Tange" :P

Xvall
4th July 2005, 19:00
You cannot compare imperialism with space exploration.

I'm not. I brought this up because you used NASA's "aims" to justify their exorbitant budget, and that argument can be used to defend any other known organization. (And I once again point out that I never said it was Nasa's duty to feed the poor.)


Often? it's obvious you know nothing of NASA's track record. Despite strangulation of funding by the governemt, they are doing well.

There have been quite a few failures as of late. Doing well, NoXion? What exactly have they been doing that is so benificial to our society? Granted, most of their actions don't result in total failure, but that doesn't means that they are doing well or are necessary


Please. They do a lot more than 'take pictures'.

Of course; they also launch rockets at lifeless rocks in outer space. I know they do more than take pictures, but that doesn't have anything to do with what we're talking about. I'm not complaining that NASA isn't doing enough, I'm complaining that they're doing too much.


What recession? Are you advocating reformism?

No, but I understand the benefits of relocating government funding to more useful sectors of the American infastructure, such as education, perhaps?


If everbody had to live up to your perfectionism, nothing would get done.

Yeah, I'm too big of a perfectionist, it seems. What was I thinking? Scientists remembering the basics of mathematics - silly me!


I don't see you criticising all the military projects that failed (Of which there are much more)

That's because this is a thread about NASA. Rest assured, if someone started a tread about how the US military was spending hundreds of millions of dollars to do something completely unecessary, I would be upset about.


Your posts prove you know jack shit about science.

Your posts prove that you don't even know what the hell is going on. I never even brought up science - I was never even talking about science, so nothing I said could even be scientifically innacurate. I'm speaking strictly about economics.

KC
4th July 2005, 20:20
If you want to make the argument that money is better suited elsewhere (i.e. education) you shouldn't attack nasa, you should be attacking the military budget. Compared to what the military receives, the nasa budget is a joke.

Xvall
4th July 2005, 21:22
I'm attacking them both, but specifically NASA here because this is a NASA thread. Also keep in mind that in this day and age, suggesting to cut the military budget is practically an act of treason, and has little if any possibility of happening.

And you are aware that NASA is a government organization serving the interests of the United States' ringmasters, right? George Bush has been talking about utilizing NASA to go on glorious missions to Mars, recently.

KC
4th July 2005, 22:05
George Bush has been talking about utilizing NASA to go on glorious missions to Mars, recently.

Not recently at all. He only suggested that as a means to distract the American public from what was going on at the time (I forget what it was, it might've been the fact that there were no WMDs found; he suggested the whole Mars thing during the time when something against him should've made headlines but didn't).

Also, saying that NASA, a government agency, serves the leaders of the governments; that's what government agencies do. I could make the same argument about education:
"We shouldn't fund education because it brainwashes the youth into believing everything the government wants them to."

bed_of_nails
4th July 2005, 23:21
Many modern inventions and materials have actually been developed for space usage, then adapted for more common usage in households.

Space exploration DOES make life better.

Xvall
5th July 2005, 02:21
Not recently at all. He only suggested that as a means to distract the American public from what was going on at the time (I forget what it was, it might've been the fact that there were no WMDs found; he suggested the whole Mars thing during the time when something against him should've made headlines but didn't).

Well, NASA is still talking about it, and Bush seemed to have been quite serious about it. (A trip to the moon is planned before the one to Mars, I hear.) Granted, Bush probably is just making trash up to appease the American public; this doesn't distract from the fact that he's probably going to try and go through with it anyways.



Also, saying that NASA, a government agency, serves the leaders of the governments; that's what government agencies do. I could make the same argument about education:
"We shouldn't fund education because it brainwashes the youth into believing everything the government wants them to."

I don't like our public schooling system either. The difference is that our society would crumble without public schools, but wouldn't be affected by the lack of space missions.

Xvall
5th July 2005, 02:27
Space exploration DOES make life better.

No. Space exploration can make life better, usually in less benificial ways than other scientific fields, such as agriculture and medicine. Additionally, space exploration costs a hell of a lot more. Should we be spending billions of dollars so that we can possibly develop something new, or spending it on something specific, such as finding a cure for something, and increase our success.

I'm not saying that NASA never did anything good. I'm saying that billions of dollars a year isn't worth a couple of space-age inventions that generally serve little purpose in everyday life. (Edible toothpaste and invisible braces are among NASA's fine inventions.)

KC
5th July 2005, 05:31
http://space.about.com/od/toolsequipment/s...llospinoffs.htm (http://space.about.com/od/toolsequipment/ss/apollospinoffs.htm)

bed_of_nails
5th July 2005, 09:16
Originally posted by Drake [email protected] 4 2005, 06:27 PM

Space exploration DOES make life better.

No. Space exploration can make life better, usually in less benificial ways than other scientific fields, such as agriculture and medicine. Additionally, space exploration costs a hell of a lot more. Should we be spending billions of dollars so that we can possibly develop something new, or spending it on something specific, such as finding a cure for something, and increase our success.

I'm not saying that NASA never did anything good. I'm saying that billions of dollars a year isn't worth a couple of space-age inventions that generally serve little purpose in everyday life. (Edible toothpaste and invisible braces are among NASA's fine inventions.)
Space Exploration does make life better.

Look at these advances. They wouldnt have been made without space exploration.

To try and claim space exploration is less important than other things may be valid, but is still pointless.

There arent only invisible braces and toothpaste that came out of NASA. Dialysis machines are only one of the life-saving inventions resulting from space exploration.

coda
5th July 2005, 14:11
hello.

Yes, it does seem like lots of excessive money that could go to feeding people and other important things done on the ground. But, also, I think it would be impossible to have the technological capabability as we do and not explore space. How can you not??? It's science. And had we not started investigating, we'd still think earth was the center of the universe and creationism would be the leading theory still.

Check out these amazing photos of hubble-- don't have to go too far for this psychedelic acid trip.

http://hubblesite.org/gallery/album/entire_collection/

Le Libérer
5th July 2005, 15:02
Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 11:10 PM
I just have this bad feeling about altering the course of comets just to see something go "Boom" and see the inside.
You are not alone.

Astrologer Sues NASA Over Comet Probe
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050705/ap_on_...ssia_comet_case (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050705/ap_on_fe_st/russia_comet_case)

Marina Bai has sued the U.S. space agency, claiming the Deep Impact probe that punched a crater into the comet Tempel 1 late Sunday "ruins the natural balance of forces in the universe," the newspaper Izvestia reported Tuesday.

Bai is seeking damages totaling $300 million — the approximate equivalent of the mission's cost — for her "moral sufferings," Izvestia said, citing her lawyer Alexander Molokhov. She earlier told the paper that the experiment would "deform her horoscope."

Vallegrande
7th July 2005, 01:30
I have also thought of this. That crater had complete peak to it. Now it has a hole that is going to erode over time and who knows what next.

ÑóẊîöʼn
7th July 2005, 05:12
Originally posted by Debora Aro+Jul 5 2005, 02:02 PM--> (Debora Aro @ Jul 5 2005, 02:02 PM)
[email protected] 3 2005, 11:10 PM
I just have this bad feeling about altering the course of comets just to see something go "Boom" and see the inside.
You are not alone.

Astrologer Sues NASA Over Comet Probe
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050705/ap_on_...ssia_comet_case (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050705/ap_on_fe_st/russia_comet_case)

Marina Bai has sued the U.S. space agency, claiming the Deep Impact probe that punched a crater into the comet Tempel 1 late Sunday "ruins the natural balance of forces in the universe," the newspaper Izvestia reported Tuesday.

Bai is seeking damages totaling $300 million — the approximate equivalent of the mission's cost — for her "moral sufferings," Izvestia said, citing her lawyer Alexander Molokhov. She earlier told the paper that the experiment would "deform her horoscope." [/b]
What utter bullshit.

I'd love to see her actually try and prove that the Deep Impact mission affected her life.

Fucking stupid bint.

Vallegrande
7th July 2005, 06:08
Yeah her case is bogus, but the fact that the comet has a hole now is somewhat questionable. Does anyone think it will make the comet fall apart over time?

ÑóẊîöʼn
7th July 2005, 08:18
Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 05:08 AM
Yeah her case is bogus, but the fact that the comet has a hole now is somewhat questionable. Does anyone think it will make the comet fall apart over time?
It's obviously nothing like a snowball, otherwise it would have burst into powder the moment Deep Impact hit.

It's most likely some sort of packed ice, there might be cracks which would cause the comet to fall apart into chunks.

But judging by the craters already present on the comet's surface, I doubt it.