Colombian rebels

[maoist_revolution]

Colombian President Alvaro Uribe has decided to take personal control of a military counter-offensive against the country's Marxist rebels.

A total of 25 Colombian soldiers died in a two recent attacks, the worst losses in a single day for Mr Uribe.

The president has now moved his government down to the military base of Tresesquinas and vowed to stay.

He says he will remain at the military base as Colombian security forces try to hunt down the Farc fighters.

A thousand troops, backed by helicopters, have been moved to the southern province of Putumayo to pursue the fighter column of the Farc, estimated at 300 strong, that attacked a military base and inflicted the heavy casualties.

However, it may already be too late, as the rebels could have crossed into neighbouring Ecuador, out of reach of the Colombian army.

As always, politics lies behind the president's actions.

The stakes are high for the US-backed president, who is seeking re-election next year.

The Farc, or Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia, have vowed to undermine Mr Uribe's security policy, the cornerstone of his administration, so that the president loses the election.

[FreeChechnya]

Colombia is such a confusing country due to all the Narcotics activity. Another action to thank America for. I'm going to let someone with more knowladge of present day Colombia answer this though.

[Bolshevist]

I fully support FARC-EP and ELN against the human rights abusers and imperialists. Every communist should do so.

[Organic Revolution]

i dont support the FARC because they use drug money to fund themselves,

[danny android]

Farc needs to stop protecting drug lords coke fields. Drug lords are obviously of the bourgeuasie class and narcotics are counter-rvolutionary.

[Bolshevist]

They don't support the drug barons (perhaps you are thinking about AUC, known as the "6'th division of the Colombian army"), they merely tax the traffickers and protects the campesinos . Most of these farmers want to stop growing coca and grow food instead, but it is simply not a alternative option due to the economic situation in Colombia. For giving up coca-growing they get around $950-1000 for one year, but that is not enough to feed a familiy of 5. And then what are they going to next year? And the year after that?

If you want an end to the coca production in Colombia, target the imperialists and the human rights abusers. They are the one who really profits from this trade. AUC leader Carlos Castano even supported Plan Colombia!

[Enragé]

FARC and ELN are drug traffickers and human rights abusers

frankly, they are a fucking disgrace to our cause

[Bolshevist]

Why? They are Marxist-Leninist, fighting against the imperialists and human rights abusers (Do I have to inform you that AUC are the ones profiteering from drug trade and conducts mass slaughters?). ELN is currently in negotations and are in support of a leftwing electoral alternative while FARC-EP is protecting the campensinos (which, btw, FARC-EP is almost without exception made up of), but perhaps, claiming land for the people while protecting them, taxing drug trafficers, instigating land reforms and such makes them a "disgrace to our movement"...

The problem here on R-L seems to be that everyone is supportive of revolutionary theory, but when actually carried out the support is severely weakened.

[xnj]

Leftists in imperialist nations, who are powerless to stop their own government's intervention in Colombia, have no right to impose their ideas on how to struggle on leftists who are living there under state and paramilitary terror.

Study what happened in the 80s when FARC de-escalated the armed struggle and formed the Patriotic Union to run for elections. Several thousand UP activists and candidates were subsequently killed by the Right.

[maoist_revolution]

its the imperialists proganda that says they are drug lords and funded by drug money

[Enragé]

Originally posted by Lenin i [email protected] 27 2005, 08:13 PM
Why? They are Marxist-Leninist, fighting against the imperialists and human rights abusers (Do I have to inform you that AUC are the ones profiteering from drug trade and conducts mass slaughters?). ELN is currently in negotations and are in support of a leftwing electoral alternative while FARC-EP is protecting the campensinos (which, btw, FARC-EP is almost without exception made up of), but perhaps, claiming land for the people while protecting them, taxing drug trafficers, instigating land reforms and such makes them a "disgrace to our movement"...

The problem here on R-L seems to be that everyone is supportive of revolutionary theory, but when actually carried out the support is severely weakened.
FARC is an authoritarian and militarist organization! I have never heard of democratic shit happening over there.

Ofcourse i will be open to objective articles if someone could provide me links. I will not however accept FARC propaganda straight from their site.


And i do support revolutionary practice

I support the struggle of the Bolivian people and of the EZLN.
Also the radical left in Venezuela which is looking to further the advancements being made under the current reformist regime of Chavez.

[Bolshevist]

Here is a short article on FARC-EP:


Since its formal inception in 1964, the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia-People's Army (FARC-EP) has maintained a unique presence within Colombia and Latin America in general. Unlike many revolutionary movements created throughout Central and South America during the 1960s, 1970s and 1980s, the FARC-EP has had several unique approaches toward creating social transformation.

One important characteristic of the FARC-EP-led insurgency is the method by which it has sought support and organised its internal structure. The insurgent groups did not form within classrooms or churches; they were not a movement led or largely made up of lawyers, students, doctors or priests. On the contrary, the FARC-EP's leadership, support-base and membership have come from the very soil from which it obtains its sustenance, for the insurgents have been largely made up of peasants from rural Colombia.

The relation of the peasantry to the FARC-EP has remained consistent over the past four decades. To enter most sections of rural Colombia is to enter guerrilla-controlled territory. The FARC-EP has been exceedingly fluid throughout much of the countryside and, within these areas, the insurgents have frequently held inspections on primary and secondary roadways, implemented grassroots judicial centres, and of course, engaged in militant confrontations with government and paramilitary armed forces.

Recently, however, this is changing, due to a new military model constructed by the US administration led by President George Bush, in cooperation with the Colombian government led by President Alvaro Uribe.

When Plan Colombia was presented to the United States and passed in 2000, (ostensibly designed to combat coca production, this plan allowed the US to step up funding to the war against the insurgency) there was considerable opposition to it.

As a result of this pressure, the US government of the time, led by Democrat Bill Clinton, voted to limit to 800 the number of US troops and privately contracted forces allowed to enter into Colombian territory.

In contrast, the Bush administration has manufactured a “war on terror” methodology to cover up the blatant failure of Plan Colombia. This is also intended to eliminate the well-equipped and powerful Marxist-Leninist FARC-EP, which poses a tremendous threat to US economic and political interests. Consequently, in late 2003 and early 2004 the US Department of Defense initiated an increase of US-based counterinsurgents to execute a campaign of armed aggression against specific regions of Colombia through Plan Patriota.

Plan Patriota has allowed the United States government to legally justify an enormous state-sponsored escalation of US troops and contracted forces within Colombia. From the time of its implementation, offensives have been carried out against suspected rebel-extended regions, thus causing numerous noncombatant casualties, displacements and deaths.

The assaults are carried out by United States state/private combatants who are leading over 20,000 Colombian soldiers in a scorched earth policy that is meant to eliminate the FARC-EP by combatting its support networks, including political parties, students, campesinos, food-crops, academics and unionists. The “plan” is now largely concentrated in the departments of Putumayo, Caquet , Nari¤o, and Meta.

Since late spring, it has appeared that Plan Patriota is “succeeding” in rooting out the FARC-EP from regions where it once showed tangible presence. I noticed this during a recent visit to south-eastern Colombia (Cundinamarca, Huila, Tolima and Cauca). The FARC-EP was not as visibly present in many rural towns and villages as it had been in months and years past. However, the lack of an overt presence does not mean that the FARC-EP has fully retreated from the countryside. I would speculate that the guerrillas have been more reticent for two specific reasons.

The first is that the FARC-EP is trying to limit the opportunity of the US-Colombian state forces from entering campesino-inhabited regions that are, or at one time were, supporters of the insurgency. The Colombian military has a horrendous record of committing human rights abuses against non-combatants; therefore the FARC-EP has chosen to limit its immediate visible presence in the hope of diminishing the chance of injury against the rural populations of FARC-EP extended regions.

The second explanation for their imperceptibility is that the insurgency may be planning to implement a large-scale regional assault against the US-Colombian state forces in southern Colombia. Since 1982, the FARC-EP has labelled itself as the People's Army; however, since that time the FARC-EP has maintained its socio-political activities through methods of guerrilla-based warfare — strategic small-scale attacks or armed missions against specific targets, and not as a formally organised army. Therefore, I would argue that the FARC-EP has pulled back a large percentage of its combatant forces from the region, with the purpose of waging a major armed conflict against the Colombian army, paramilitary, and now, US forces.

The interesting aspect of all this, is that while the FARC-EP may well be preparing for a major military confrontation in southern Colombia, the rural supporters of the insurgents are still quietly stationed throughout the country; in the cities, towns, villages, mountainside and fields. Therefore, the eve of a full-scale revolutionary war between the insurgent forces of the FARC-EP and their rural support-base against the Colombian/United States forces could be reality in the not-too-distant future.

[James J. Brittain is a Ph.D. candidate and Lecturer of Sociology at the University of New Brunswick, Canada. He can be reached at <[email protected]>.]

From Green Left Weekly, December 1, 2004.

[Bolshevist]

An Interview with FARC Commander Simón Trinidad

by Garry Leech

In January 1999, newly elected Colombian president Andres Pastrana ceded an area of southern Colombia the size of Switzerland to the Revolutionary Armed Forces of Colombia (FARC) guerrillas as part of an agreement to begin peace talks. Although there is no cease-fire agreement while the talks are being carried out, the Colombian Armed Forces and the National Police have withdrawn all their forces from the region known as the Zona de Despeje (Clearance Zone).

The FARC&#39;s headquarters in Los Pozos, a small village located 18 miles from San Vicente del Caguan in the Zona de Despeje, has been host to the peace talks as well as public conferences where all sectors of Colombian society can come to participate in discussions about Colombia&#39;s future. On June 14, 2000, I traveled to Los Pozos to interview Simón Trinidad, a FARC commander and a spokesman for the guerrilla organization. Trinidad was a professor of economics and a banker before joining the FARC 16 years ago.

Q. What is the current status of the ongoing peace process?

A. In May 1999, the FARC and the Colombian government established a common agenda consisting of twelve points. This agenda was created with an agreement that both parties would bring their proposals to the negotiating table--things that they considered important in the discussion and in the search for a resolution to the conflict and to make the changes that Colombia needs.

At the moment, they are only discussing one item: unemployment. There have been 13 or 14 public conferences here in Los Pozos about this topic featuring businessmen, workers, university students, teachers and rectors. This Friday there will be a conference with the African-Colombian communities. On June 25 there will be a conference with unemployed women and on June 29 there will be one on illicit crops and the environment. The FARC and the government are discussing all these items that they consider important in the search for a political solution to the social conflict in Colombia.

Q. Why do you think the United States is focusing on the FARC and campesinos that cultivate coca here in southern Colombia instead of the paramilitaries and the narco-traffickers?

A. That&#39;s a good question. Because the FARC is the only political organization that is in opposition to the Colombian oligarchy that keeps Colombians in poverty, misery and a state of underdevelopment. We are fighting for a change in the Colombian economic model and for a new state. For a state that has at its center the men and women of Colombia and to provide a better life and social justice for Colombians. With the riches in this country and after 180 years of republic living, Colombians must live better. We&#39;ll make better use of the natural resources and provide jobs, healthcare, education and housing so that 40 million Colombians can live well.

Who are those that are opposed to these social, economic and political changes? They are the people who monopolize the riches and resources in Colombia. A small group that monopolizes the banks, the industries, the mines, agriculture and international commerce, including some foreign companies, especially North Americans. For these reasons we are the principal target in the war against narco-traffickers. But we aren&#39;t narco-traffickers and the campesinos aren&#39;t narco-traffickers, they are using it as an excuse for fighting against us.

If the United States government really intends to combat narco-traffickers, all the people in Colombia know where the narco-traffickers live. They live in Bogotá, Medellín, Cali and Barranquilla. Therefore, to seize the narco-traffickers the police have to do certain things. They have to leave their houses and search for them in order to put them in prison. But no, they confront the poor campesino with repression that not only hurts the illicit crops, but also legal crops like yucca, bananas, and chickens and pigs because the fumigation kills everything. It damages the earth, the vegetation, the water and the animals.

Those responsible for making Colombia a producer of narcotics are the people who have become rich from this business: the narco-traffickers, and they are happy. Who else benefits from narco-trafficking? The bankers and those who distribute the drugs in the cities, universities, high schools and discos of North America, Europe and Asia, the greatest consumers of marijuana, cocaine and heroin. Who else benefits? The companies that make the chemicals for processing cocaine and heroin. These companies are German and North American. They are industries in the developed countries. It&#39;s a great business for the chemical companies.

The poor campesino has lived in misery for many years and will continue to do so. The war is for them and for us. We are planning a different solution for the problem of narco-trafficking. It consists of providing a better life for the poor campesino through agrarian reform, by giving them good lands, technical assistance and low-interest loans to change from growing illicit crops to legal crops; such as, coffee, yucca, bananas, sugarcane and ranching. An alternative development that facilitates commercialization for these products. But it&#39;s a slow process to change them, it´s not just destroying the illicit crops and then telling them to grow different ones. We have to educate the campesinos about how to produce them. Give them tools, credits and time so they can make a living from these crops and become a different kind of campesino.

Q. Last year, FARC spokesman Raul Reyes claimed that the FARC could eradicate coca cultivation in the regions it controls in five years. However, there have been accusations that the FARC is forcing campesinos to grow more coca here in the Zona de Despeje.

A. This is the story of the police, the army and the narco-traffickers. We live in the country, and it is in the country that the coca, marijuana and the poppy have been grown for thirty years. We know that the campesinos grow illicit crops out of necessity. It is specifically a socio-economic situation. They are obligated to cultivate illicit crops because of a government that has neglected them for many years. We have made it clear that we will not take the food out of the mouth of the poor campesino. We will not leave them without jobs. They work with the marijuana and coca leaf because they don&#39;t have any other work. This problem is caused by the economic model of the Colombian state, and it is the state that has to fix the problem. We are the state&#39;s enemy, not their anti-narcotics police. The state has to offer people employment, honest work, and social justice to improve their lives.

Q. The FARC has introduced its own system of justice in the Zona de Despeje. What are the codes of justice and how are they implemented?

A. It&#39;s not true&#33; We haven&#39;t introduced a justice system in the Zona de Despeje. For 36 years we have been working to solve the social problems of the campesinos that have a relationship with us. For many years the state hasn&#39;t been present in many regions. There have been no state judges, no justice system and no public administration in many regions of the country. The society has had to resolve their own problems because they don&#39;t believe in the ministry of work, they don&#39;t believe in Colombian justice, they don&#39;t believe in the Colombian army and police. They came to us and we were there for them in the country.

For example, there was a conflict between two people regarding land and cows. The cows belonging to one of them entered the other person&#39;s land and destroyed his crops. He came to us looking for a solution to this problem. They don&#39;t go looking for a state functionary because they don&#39;t come to the country. So we told him to come here tomorrow with his neighbor to talk about the problem. We listened to both versions and we asked them for a solution. If they don&#39;t find a solution, we propose some solutions in an attempt to apply justice. We want to see that they can resolve their own problems. We are a witness to their agreements.

Another example is a bad marriage. When the husband drinks all the money, hits the wife and leaves his wife and children. They don&#39;t have the money to travel to a city where the family court is located in order to resolve this problem. The process takes one, two or three years before he is told to provide milk for his children. We call the mother and father and tell them that he has to give part of his salary to his wife and children and that he can&#39;t drink too much anymore. We come to an agreement.

Workers in factories in the cities that were dismissed from their job without reason and without severance benefits go to the jungle in search of the guerrillas to resolve this problem. We send a note to the administrator, boss or owner telling them they have to come and talk with the guerrillas to resolve the problem. Some don&#39;t come, but others do come and we listen to them. We don&#39;t always believe the workers, we listen to the businessmen because maybe the worker is lazy, or a drunk, or a liar, or irresponsible. We resolve these kinds of problems for people who live in the country and the cities. We do this in other regions of the country where the guerrillas are.

Here in San Vicente del Caguan, when we created the Zona de Despeje, the campesinos stopped the guerrillas in the street for solutions to their problems. Now, people have to go to the Oficina de quejas y reclamos (Office of Claims and Complaints) and we listen to both sides of the problem. We didn&#39;t create this system now in the Zona de Despeje, historically the FARC has done this where the state has lacked a system of justice and where a majority of people don&#39;t believe in the Colombian justice system. We are doing it in the Zona de Despeje in an office. The people come and the guerrillas listen to them and find a solution. It is not only about money.

For example, who gets custody of the children when parents get separated? If the mother is a prostitute, doesn&#39;t care about her children and consumes drugs, then the care of the children is given to the father. These are the types of problems we resolve. This office also resolves problems concerning guerrillas when they are bad. For example, if they go out and get drunk. Sometimes we make mistakes and we like it when other people tell us where we failed.

Q. What will happen if the United States Congress authorizes increased military aid to the Colombian Armed Forces and they launch an offensive against the FARC here in southern Colombia?

A. I don&#39;t want to think about it. I don&#39;t want to think about it. We have more faith in a peace process with dialogue. I don&#39;t want to think about a war in this region of the country. The war won&#39;t resolve Colombia&#39;s problems. Colombia has 18 million people living in absolute poverty. These people don&#39;t have electricity, water, jobs, land, education and healthcare. Another 18 million Colombians are poor with a salary that doesn&#39;t cover all their necessities. They live restricted lives. In many cases the mother, father and one or two sons have to work to provide transport, housing and clothes.

We are 36 million Colombians living poorly out of a total of 40 million Colombians. Of the other four million Colombians, some are rich and others have a good life working in industries, businesses and farms. They have a solution to their problems of healthcare, education, vacation, work and social benefits. Is the war going to resolve these problems?

If this is about the narco-trafficker problem then you know where the narco-traffickers are. For example, the governor of the department of Cesar, Lucas, is a narco-trafficker and he is governor for the second time. His brother is a senator in the National Congress and is in alliance with the president of the Congressional Assembly, Pomanico, who is being investigated for stealing &#036;4.5 million from congress. There is an alliance between narco-traffickers and common politicians, both Liberals and Conservatives. Also, between paramilitaries and the narco-traffickers, everybody knows this.

If you go to Barranquilla the people will tell you where the narco-traffickers are. The police and the commanders of the army battalions and brigades know this. Will the war waged against poor campesinos solve these problems? The war won&#39;t resolve the problems for the hungry and unemployed in Colombia.

Q. How will the FARC effectively implement its new political front, the Bolivariano Movement, if its members remain anonymous?

A. The idea of the Bolivariano Movement is not ours, it doesn&#39;t come from us. It was born with many Colombians 16 years ago when the members of the Patriotic Union were assassinated. It was a legal movement, a democratic movement that participated in the presidential, congressional and municipal elections. And then they began to get assassinated.

When the armed forces, police and paramilitaries began to kill the members of the Patriotic Union they came to us and said, &#39;We want to work with you, we like the FARC&#39;s policies. But because of this they will kill us.&#39; They wanted to work with us, but alone. But the FARC said, &#39;No, you can&#39;t work alone. You have to work with your father, your mother, your brother, your neighbor, your girlfriend, your wife, your co-workers, and your classmates. You have to organize, because if we are divided we can&#39;t win.&#39;

But to work in secret? They are right. At this moment was born the idea for the political movement. A political movement that works to recover Colombian society in secret, a movement that&#39;s militant and clandestine. There will be campesinos, students, workers, women and intellectuals who will fight the political confrontation without saying they belong to the Bolivariano Movement. They will not participate in elections because there are no guarantees and conditions that they will not be killed.

First we have to change many customs in this country, like the oligarchy killing political contradictors. This is Colombian history. The world doesn&#39;t know of another country where political contradictors are killed like in Colombia. All of them since we gained independence from Spain. They assassinated Sucre, they tried to assassinate Bolivar, and they assassinated many leaders of the nineteenth century in civil wars. They killed Rafael Uribe Uribe. They assassinated Jorge Eliecer Gaitan, Jaime Pardo Leal, and the Liberal guerrillas that laid down their arms under the government of the dictator Rojas Pinilla. They assassinated 4,000 members of the Patriotic Union, cleansed the Patriotic Union with bullets, and they have followed this practice to kill labor leaders, student leaders, campesino leaders, everybody that has opposed this tyrannic regime. For this reason the Bolivariano Movement remains clandestine.

Q. Many international human rights organizations have demanded that the FARC stop recruiting children. Where does the FARC stand on this issue?

A. In our statutes we have decided that we can recruit 15 year-olds and up. In some fronts there may have been some younger, but a short time ago we decided to send them back home. But what is the cost? In the last year a girl arrived at the office in San Vicente, 14 years-old and wanting to join the guerrillas. When the mother found out that she had joined she contacted the guerrillas and cried and said her daughter is only 14 years-old. In March she was sent back home because the FARC&#39;s Central Command said they would return to their parents all those younger than fifteen. Two weeks ago I met this girl and asked her what she was doing. She said she was working in a bar from 6pm until sunrise. I asked what she was doing in this bar and she said, &#39;I attend to the customers.&#39; When I asked in what way does she attend to the customers, she lowered her head and started to cry. She is a whore. She is 14 years old. A child prostitute. She was better in the guerrillas. In the guerrillas we have dignity, respect and we provide them with clothes, food and education.

And there are millions of others like this girl in Colombia that are exploited in the coal mines, the gold mines, the emerald mines, in the coca and poppy fields. They prefer that children work in the coca and poppy fields because they pay them less and they work more. It sounds beautiful when you say that children shouldn&#39;t be guerrillas, but the children are in the streets of the cities doing drugs, inhaling gasoline and glue. They are highly exploited.

According to the United Nations: 41% of Colombians are children; 6.5 million children live in conditions of poverty, add to this 1.2 million children living in absolute poverty; 30,000 children live in the streets without mothers, fathers and brothers; 47% of children are abused by their parents; and 2.5 million work in high risk jobs. These children meet the guerrillas and they don&#39;t have parents because the military or the paramilitaries killed them and they ask the guerrillas to let them join. We are executing the norm that no children younger than 15 years of age join.

Q. How many women are there in the FARC and what happens when they become pregnant?

A. Aproximately 30% of the guerrillas are women and the number is increasing all the time. The women guerillas are treated the same as the men. Some FARC units have female commandantes and the FARC office in San Vicente is run by a female guerrilla named Nora. Some of the women have relationships with male guerrillas and we provide contraceptives because we do not want pregnant women in the guerrillas. But some do get pregnant and if they don&#39;t have an abortion it is necessary that they leave the guerrillas.

Q. What does the government have to do for the FARC to agree to a cease-fire during negotiations?

A. Stop the fighting on both sides. This cease-fire must be established for a specific time: a month or two months. And besides, it must be verified for both sides. This we understand to be a cease-fire. It was tried many times. Seventeen years ago with Belasario Betancur&#39;s government, when we signed a cease-fire Manuel Marulanda Velez gave the order to all guerrilla fronts to suspend fighting on May 28, 1984, and the president did the same. But the next day, there was an opposing order from the Commander of the Army, General Vega Uribe, saying they won&#39;t comply with the cease-fire order because they have to abide by the Constitution.

We have many times during this presidential period called unilateral cease-fires for Christmas, Easter, elections, many times. The most recent unilateral cease-fire was December 20, 1999 until January 5, 2000. But if we are going to discuss this theme it would be under bilateral proposals with defined times and mechanisms of control and verification. To verify who broke the agreement and why.

This article originally appeared in Colombia Report, an online journal that was published by the Information Network of the Americas (INOTA).

[xnj]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 09:48 PM
I have never heard of democratic shit happening over there.
Well, the FARC formed an electoral front in 1984 called the Patriotic Union. Four thousand of its activists were killed by the state and the paramilitaries, and the UP was destroyed. Can&#39;t blame them for not trying the parliamentary democracy path. They did and got massacred.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by rise up+--> (rise up)I don&#39;t support the FARC because they use drug money to fund themselves.[/b]


Originally posted by danny [email protected]
FARC needs to stop protecting drug lords [and] coke fields. Drug lords are obviously of the bourgeois class and narcotics are counter-revolutionary.


NewKindofSoldier
FARC and ELN are drug traffickers and human rights abusers. Frankly, they are a fucking disgrace to our cause.

The real disgrace on this board is so-called "leftists" who support U.S. imperialism and their lackeys&#33;

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[fernando]

so if they dont support the FARC they are immediatly supporters of US imperialism? <_<

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 06:38 AM
so if they dont support the FARC they are immediatly supporters of US imperialism? <_<
What else?

Haven&#39;t you noticed this parade of threads whining about FARC or the ELN or Shining Path or the Nepalese Maoists or the Iraqi resistance or the IRA...???

To what purpose? So that the people who start those threads can demonstrate their "moral purity"?

No sir, boss, I don&#39;t support those narco-terrorists, Islamic fascists, Catholic extremists, whatever&#33;

Anyone who engages in armed struggle against U.S. imperialism or one of its quisling regimes is...just no damn good&#33;

Coincidence?

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[viva le revolution]

Thats right. They criticize anyone who fights the u.s and it&#39;s lackeys then claim to be against it. well if you are not content nitpicking, then please enlighten us as to how we should fight imperialism in your view?

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Mmmm.

First, I think we have to stop buying outright lies about the FARC. Though it took me a while to wrap my head around, it&#39;s true - they aren&#39;t just exagerating - the media and our leaders are selling us outright falsehoods.

Second, even if the FARC were "narcoterrorists" (a term coined to describe Sendero, who, it turns out, weren&#39;t involved in the drug trade at all. Big surprise?), we still need to support them against the imperialists who create the underlying conditions that demand "narcoterrorism".


FUCK, I&#39;m so tired.

Goodnight.

[fernando]

Anyone who engages in armed struggle against U.S. imperialism or one of its quisling regimes is...just no damn good&#33;

You support any enemy of the US...doesnt matter who they are?

[Bolshevist]

Mao said "We shall support whatever the enemy opposes and oppose whatever the enemy supports." Why not? US imperialism must be crushed, so what if the people opposing this has an ideological conviction that would be labeled "anti-west", "terrorist", "radical islamist" and so on. In the end, it support our goal which is to bring about end to US imperialism and establish socialism.

[fernando]

not all of your &#39;allies&#39; support your ideas. Islam fundamentalists are not very keen on communism for example...

[Bolshevist]

Why does that matter? We share the same enemy, why should I then not support these people in their struggle against the US?

[fernando]

Would you support the Nazis in their battle against the Yankees?

[Bolshevist]

Now you are stretching it..

The Soviet Union tried to form a anti-Germany anti-Italy alliance with France, UK, the USA and such. None joined, because they thought it would be good to see Germany crush the workers state. It wasn&#39;t until Germany began to target West-European interests that these governments started to object to facism. Heck, IBM even provided the Germans with the machines to perform a industrialised genocide. Why support one nations imperialism over another?

Today, anti-imperialism is the most important duty of every communist&#33;

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 08:33 AM

Anyone who engages in armed struggle against U.S. imperialism or one of its quisling regimes is...just no damn good&#33;

You support any enemy of the US...doesnt matter who they are?
As I&#39;ve said repeatedly in these threads, U.S. imperialism is the main enemy of the people of the whole world...I do not see how any fair observer could deny this.

The people in some countries who are fighting to drive it out of their countries are doing something objectively progressive even if their motives are reactionary.

Whenever they manage to inflict any kind of serious military defeat on U.S. imperialism, they weaken it -- they reduce its ability to exploit and oppress other countries.

Just suppose, for example, that the Afghans and the Iraqis had welcomed the American invasions with flowers and kisses. Would you like to speculate where the military resources that would have proved unneeded in Afghanistan and Iraq would now be employed instead?

Venezuela? Cuba? Iran? Colombia?

The American imperialists (like the Nazis) always have "just one more territorial demand" and "then the world will be at peace".

The sad truth of the matter is that the American Empire will not be "satisfied" until it owns the whole world and controls everything right down to the color of the mailboxes.

Anyone who is willing to take up arms against that global tyranny is "doing the right thing"...no matter what their other shortcomings might be.

One can certainly make legitimate criticisms of all the existing resistance movements around the world -- none of them are really communist, for example.

But you&#39;d better support them anyway...unless you want to be ruled and exploited by American capitalists.

For a long, long time.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[chebol]

For once I find myself in near absolute areement with Redstar.

Where is the evidence for "narcoterorism"?
What does it mean anyway?
What percentage of the drug trade is the FARC involved in, and, qualitatively, what PART of it? (HINT: abouth 3 percent, and it&#39;s all taxes on coca growers)

My suggestion is- if you want to understand the Colombian struggle; DO SOME REAL FUCKING RESEARCH ON THE TOPIC, INSTEAD OF BUYING INTO IMPERIALIST BULLSHIT PROPAGANDA. YOU ARE DOING NOBODY ANY FAVOURS, EXCEPT THE RICH AND GENOCIDAL.

OK, don&#39;t believe the FARC "propaganda". But READ it, as well as the mainstream lies, and other, more or less impartial sources.

http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2005/630/630p15.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2004/608/608p20.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2004/608/608p20.htm
http://www.greenleft.org.au/back/2004/582/582p20.htm
http://www.farcep.org
http://www.colombiajournal.org/

[Enragé]

firstly:

i retract any comments made regarding socalled human rights abuses by FARC and ELN and them being a disgrace, i might have jumped to conclusions, though it could still be true what i said.

second:

i remain critical of both movements who have authoritarian TENDENCIES at least. A glance at their site would make this clear already. http://www.farcep.org/

third:

i support the IRA, the Palestinian Resistance, the Iraqi Resistance and so on.

But just because i support those movements doesnt mean i cant be critical of them now can i? Dogma is as much a threat to our movement as any imperialist force.

[danny android]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 01:33 PM

Anyone who engages in armed struggle against U.S. imperialism or one of its quisling regimes is...just no damn good&#33;

You support any enemy of the US...doesnt matter who they are?
Yeah I know a lot of Neo-nazi far right-wing groups that concider themselves against the american government also. They hate the government because they think that it is too liberal. What few liberal ideas we have in this country they want to get rid of. Should we support them just because they are against the US government.

My ansewer........ FUCK NO&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by danny android
Yeah I know a lot of Neo-nazi far right-wing groups that consider themselves against the American government also.

So what? What do those marginal fools actually do to fight that government?

Not a fucking thing&#33;

Whenever they scrounge up 50 dumbasses to hold a rally, they do so under full police protection.

It&#39;s rather different for those of us who actually oppose the despotism in Washington.

So your implication that we "should" support them is completely meaningless and totally irrelevant.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28 2005, 01:20 AM
The real disgrace on this board is so-called "leftists" who support U.S. imperialism and their lackeys&#33;


Indeed... so sorry that you others don&#39;t approve <_<

[Entrails Konfetti]

Originally posted by Lenin i [email protected] 27 2005, 07:40 PM
they merely tax the traffickers and protects the campesinos .
How the hell does a leftist organ in a country that doesn&#39;t have power in the office tax a black market trade such as drug trafficking ?

[chebol]

Easy, they control half (or almost half) of the country.

NewKindOfSoldier- please feel free to criticise the FARC, but do so constructively, taking into account the difficulty of the evolution of the left in Colombia (let alone it&#39;s survival). There is what appears to be a healthy resurgence of the left there atm, with all its vagaries, and this is to be welcomed. It would have been impossible, however, without the existence of the FARC (and to a lesser extent the ELN and other groups).
The FARC do appear to have "authoritarian tendencies". The question is how justifiable they are, given the circumstances, and are they core organisational principles, or a tactical response to the ongoing war).

This is not to say that the FARC have NOT committed any human rights abuses. There have been some cases, and often they have been mistakes and apologised for. Apologies don&#39;t bring back the dead, but condemning outright the main force actively fighting the genocidal government and paramilitaries (the FARC do not, for example, commit massacres of entire villages with machine guns and chainsaws as the AUC have done) is playing directly into the hands of the Right.

Also, the FARC fronts are responsible for their own funding, and it may be that some are involved in more than simply taxing the growers. I am unaware of this being the case however.

Regardless of this, there is a greater principle at stake. When coca growing (for the production of cocaine) is the only viable source of income for a vast swathe of the population (and the only alternative is starvation), can you blame them? The cocaine industry has grown in relation to demand in the West (especially the US), and is facilitated primarily by the Colombian military and the paramilitaries (who also produce large quantities of heroin).

The FARC&#39;s primary role (for the past 41 years) has been to protect the people of southern Colombia, the peace communities, and those persecuted by the army/ AUC. That means protecting coca crops while coca crops are unavoidable. It is neither actively supporting of the cocaine industry, nor attempting to shut it down.

It is worth mentioning that cocaine (and heroin) usage is outlawed in FARC-controlled areas (the FARC has a whole system of laws, appeals processes and civic codes enacted throughout their territory, which functions as a &#39;liberated zone&#39;), and they place full blame on the Colombian and US governments and the &#39;market&#39;. They have offered, if given market support and a peace-plan, to attempt to eradicate coca production and replace it as an economic staple. No productive response has been forthcoming. Instead, the government declares war, "Total War". Why? Well, oddly enough, oil is an issue, and more so than coca.

Is the FARC perfect? No.
Have they made mistakes? Yes.
Is their political strategy effective? More or less.
Should we criticise them? As little as possible. The main issue in Colombia for the Left is how to defeat Uribe&#39;s military-fascist policies, bring Plan Colombia to a close and enable peace talks and hostage swaps. [see http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/wo...ack=1&cset=true (http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-colombia-american-hostages,1,3553120.story?coll=sns-ap-world-headlines&ctrack=1&cset=true)
]

[Phalanx]

Originally posted by CompaneroDeLibertad+Jun 29 2005, 12:52 AM--> (CompaneroDeLibertad @ Jun 29 2005, 12:52 AM)
[email protected] 28 2005, 01:20 AM
The real disgrace on this board is so-called "leftists" who support U.S. imperialism and their lackeys&#33;


Indeed... so sorry that you others don&#39;t approve <_< [/b]
I kinda can see where you are coming from. But honestly, what then separates us from the liberals if we automatically believe this american media propoganda shit? Leftists like ourselves must be highly critical of this neocolonial power known as the US.

[Red Heretic]

You guys seem to forget that there are more legitimate revolutionary organizations in Columbia besides the FARC drug lords, such as the RCG which has RIM certification.

[Sons_of_Eureka]

Well the FARC seem to be the only ones who care about the rural dwellers and thus they have won the support of many farmers and peasants.

All this anti drug talk is crap because the people who make the drugs (farmers) usally have nothing so drugs is the only way to support thier starving families because fact is the FARC don&#39;t have enough resorces to feed every mouth which is perfectly understandable.

The terrorist regime of columbia is opressing and murdering its people everyday with help of the US imperialists.The Columbian regime is a sworn enemy of the Venezualan popularly elected leader Hugo Chavez and with the US is pushing for total war.The Columbian regime is a threat to socialist in south america so they must be stoped by any means necesary.

By not supporting the FARC you are helping the US by giving into thier lies and ignoring the cries of the Columbian people.A few rag-tag socio-demorcats isn&#39;t going to help anyone but a popularly supported group like the farc will&#33;.

[Enragé]

Is their political strategy effective? More or less.


The problem is, it isnt. It might even be counter productive. If their strategy was effective they would have destroyed the colombian government years upon years ago. Look at it like this: who are the colombian soldiers (of the government)? The privates etc (not the officers) are most likely working class, so if their strategy would have been effective they would&#39;ve joined the FARC by now.

[rise_up]

Originally posted by rise [email protected] 27 2005, 07:03 PM
i dont support the FARC because they use drug money to fund themselves,
they may be using drugs to fund themselves,but how else are they supposed to get money.......I will support them because of who they are and what they stand for.not for how they get their money....And the money is used for a good cause.i wouldn&#39;t argue.

[Guerrilla22]

So how wexactly is FARC suppose to raise funds if they don&#39;t involve themselves in the drug trade, which some ignorant members have criticized them for? The US government supplies the Colombian governmnet with millions in financial and military aid, why shouldn&#39;t FARC exploit upper class Americans who have disposable incomes?

[rise_up]

exactly.thank you.

[Colombia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 11:33 AM

Is their political strategy effective? More or less.


The problem is, it isnt. It might even be counter productive. If their strategy was effective they would have destroyed the colombian government years upon years ago. Look at it like this: who are the colombian soldiers (of the government)? The privates etc (not the officers) are most likely working class, so if their strategy would have been effective they would&#39;ve joined the FARC by now.
The government has only been kept alive thanks to the US providing millions worth of aid to Colombia. The difference between a FARC soldier and an AUC soldier, is that one is fighting for the good of his people while the other fights because it pays well and his own self interest.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29 2005, 12:31 AM
You guys seem to forget that there are more legitimate revolutionary organizations in Columbia besides the FARC drug lords, such as the RCG which has RIM certification.
Oh?

Tell us about them. How many guerrillas do they have in the field and where are their "liberated zones"?

Why are they "more legitimate" than the FARC or the ELN?

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[Entrails Konfetti]

Its just seems the more I read about South American Leftist Organizations and North Americas responses to these movements,it becomes clearer that someday there will be a war between South America and North America.
I know who I&#39;ll fight for,why South America ofcourse =D .

[danny android]

Originally posted by redstar2000+Jun 29 2005, 12:48 AM--> (redstar2000 @ Jun 29 2005, 12:48 AM)
danny android
Yeah I know a lot of Neo-nazi far right-wing groups that consider themselves against the American government also.

So what? What do those marginal fools actually do to fight that government?

Not a fucking thing&#33;

Whenever they scrounge up 50 dumbasses to hold a rally, they do so under full police protection.

It&#39;s rather different for those of us who actually oppose the despotism in Washington.

So your implication that we "should" support them is completely meaningless and totally irrelevant.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif [/b]
wow. I actually find myslef agreeing with you for once redstar. I am suprised. Good job.

[novemba]

Yada Yada, fuck all the drugs, fuck your politics, and fuck your yappering.

It comes down to this FARC and all the other columbian rebels are little *****es for running to ecuador.

"300 rebels...1000 soldiers..." ....SOUND FIMILIAR

try 300 rebels to 10,000

any true Guerrilla Force would have advanced when the enemy retreated instead of RUN AWAY TO ECUADOR.


Originally posted by Common
Wish I was brave as Che was...

[novemba]

...*****es.

[metalero]

FARC has stated that they are only an armed political organization (since they aim power to change social and political structure), and they have acknowledged that there are many democratic organizations and social movements in colombia that struggle for peace wiht social justice. they have even said that they don´t look for a radical change such stablishing a proletariat dictartoship or a communist regime, but rather a true democratic system that includes direct participation in decision making from historically excluded social groups in colombia.
The colombian oligarchy have ruled the country since its independence, under 2 main parties (much like in U.S), and they have used selective assesination, mass murder, displacement of poor farmers and media manipulation to maintain their political and economical power.
The armed struggle of the guerrillas is just a reaction to the sistematic violence against the population, especially against poor farmers who face daily the explotation and dirty war from the big landowners, the military, and their allies, paramilitary (death squads).
Uribe represents the most exclusive and far-right characteristics of the oligarchy, and he is strongly supported by "terratenientes" (semi-feudal big landowners), the industrial elite, military officers and the paramilitary groups, which according to Amnesty International, are responsible for 80% of the human right abuses in Colombia, including horrendous masscres, dismemberment and displacement of poor families.
now, i can´t believe a leftist goes around repeating jesse helms words- "narco-terrorists" - when referring to a military-political group that has been fighting one of the most brutal oligarchy in the world for already 4 decades. Of course FARC commit human right abuses, like anyone participating in a bloody war does. But the Massacres, selective assesination of profesors, union leaders, human rights activists and students are exclusive sick patterns of state terrorism...then, when FARC and ELN kidnap a terrateniente or a drug-lord, or attack a military barricade put up intentionally among civilians (human shield), the big media comes yelling around human rights, terrorism...that´s all for now my friends, from Colombia -metalero-

[novemba]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30 2005, 02:12 AM
...*****es.
I stand by my words.