Petition to boycott Israeli dance during Belfast Festival

[Conghaileach]

We are appealing to all those concerned about
Palestine to help us in this campaign. We are asking
you to sign this petition, to write directly to
Belfast Festival at Queens and to contact your local
Cllr to protest since Belfast City Council is funding
this project.


Dear Friends,
The Belfast Festival at Queen’s has decided to accept
the direct sponsorship of the Israeli Embassy in
London for a performance by an Israeli dance company
on Nov, 5th. This comes at a time when the Israeli
occupation army is conducting a systematic vicious
destructive campaign against the institutions of civil
society in Palestine (Please have a look at the
figures below and remember that behind each number
there is a real story of human suffering).

Please read and sign the petition at the following
link to voice your protest on the involvement of the
government of Israel in the Belfast festival at
Queen’s:

http://www.petitiononline.com/Palish76/petition.html

You can also contact the Belfast Festival directly at:


25 College Gardens

Belfast

BT9 6BS

Tel.: 9066 7687

Ms. Stella Hall, Festival director: [email protected]

Ms. Rosie Turner, Festival deputy director:
[email protected]

Mr. Graeme Farrow, Festival PR manager/programmer:
[email protected]



It is extremely important to voice your concern as
soon as possible.

Best Regards,

Ismael Al-Hinti,
IPSC

[Menshevik]

Why hate everything Israeli because of an oppressive government?

[IRANeAZAD5]

yeah thats true

Isreali culture is not the problem

[Conghaileach]

This dance company is a PR stunt by the Israeli embassy in London. The motto of the Festival is "celebrating life" - and giving Israelis a place in teh festival gives the slogan a hollow feel.

[Comrade Babar]

You wouldn't oppose a display of Arab culture or dance (I would hope not, at least) because of the genuinely authoritarian Arab dictatorships even if it were, say, endorsed by the Egyptian embassy. However, if you're going to exclude representatives of a nation because that particular nation is involved in conflict then British, American, Russian, Indonesian, Chinese, Arab, African (I might as well just use the blanket term I usually object to, most African countries are engaged in some kind of conflict or another, I blame the Euro-centric media for my ignorance on the subject of Africa) and a myriad of other cultures must be excluded.

Suffice to say, I consider your logic to be very silly.

[Jaha]

i read your post and thought it was hilarious.

but why did you go through the trouble to make a web page ? (the joke hit the punchline long before anyone sees the link)

[Conghaileach]

from Comrade Babar:
However, if you're going to exclude representatives of a nation because that particular nation is involved in conflict then British, American, Russian, Indonesian, Chinese, Arab, African (I might as well just use the blanket term I usually object to, most African countries are engaged in some kind of conflict or another, I blame the Euro-centric media for my ignorance on the subject of Africa) and a myriad of other cultures must be excluded.

I'm not talking about this simply because there's a conflict going on. This protest is going on because of Israel's apartheid expansionist genocidal policies.

[Comrade Babar]

I'm not talking about this simply because there's a conflict going on. This protest is going on because of Israel's apartheid expansionist genocidal policies.

Israeli Arabs have exactly the same rights as all other Israelis, the land conquered in the 1967 war was conquered because Israel was being shelled from it and thus it is of great significance to Israel’s security. I'm not even going to touch the word genocide because you clearly have no idea what it means.

[James]

hmm, although i can see what everyone is saying - i have signed it. And do support it.

[BOZG]

I also support the petition not because they're Israeli and "we must oppose all that is Israeli" but for the fact that they are going to Belfast on the sponsorship of the Israeli embassy. That is politically motivated.

[new democracy]

Quote: from Comrade Babar on 9:50 am on Oct. 23, 2002[brIsraeli Arabs have exactly the same rights as all other Israelis.
as someone tyhat lives in israel, i can tell you that what you said is bullshit. i live in haifa. when i buy phalfel in arab shops, i can see how the people their are poor and the streets are ruind. if they do have the same rights, how come the government can make areas for jews ONLY? how come interreacical marrige are not allowed here? ever heard about azmi bishara? and did you know that parties that talk about creating of one democratic secular republic are not allowed? arab people are discriminated balantly in this apertheid state.

(Edited by new democracy at 1:01 pm on Oct. 23, 2002)

[IHP]

Quote: from Comrade Babar on 9:50 am on Oct. 23, 2002
I'm not even going to touch the word genocide because you clearly have no idea what it means.


Here you are faulting CiaranB without sufficient evidence to back up your accusation. You are just a reactionary. You do not seem the least bit progressive in your thinking or understanding.

--IHP

[Babar]

"as someone tyhat lives in israel, i can tell you that what you said is bullshit. i live in haifa. when i buy phalfel in arab shops, i can see how the people their are poor and the streets are ruind."

Blacks and Pakistanis in Britain tend to live in poorer areas than whites in general, too, is Britain an apartheid state?

"if they do have the same rights, how come the government can make areas for jews ONLY?"

While I can see the security reasons for this I don't support the policies of land distribution by the Jewish Agency entirely.

"how come interreacical marrige are not allowed here?"

You have to be Christian to marry in a church in Britain, is Britain an apartheid state? If this is the standard to be set for apartheid states then most countries could be considered as such...

"and did you know that parties that talk about creating of one democratic secular republic are not allowed?"

Israel is democratic and secular, if you're talking about advocating a binational state then why isn't the Israeli Communist party outlawed?

i hate pinochet: Why am I not progressive because I attack anti-semites and defend Israel? Socialism is economics and economics alone - you can be a Christian fundamentalist, an authoritarian, a homophobe, etc, etc or whatever and as long as you advocate state ownership of major industries and the abolition of private property then you’re still a Socialist.

[Babar]

I'll be using this account from now on, by the way, I forgot the password to the other one..

[BOZG]

Babar, stop confusing anti-zionists for anti-semites.

[new democracy]

"Blacks and Pakistanis in Britain tend to live in poorer areas than whites in general, too, is Britain an apartheid state?"

agree.

"While I can see the security reasons for this I don't support the policies of land distribution by the Jewish Agency entirely."

this is the government policy!!! this is not a policy of Jewish Agency!!! the government can create areas where arab can't live, even if they have israeli citizenship!!!!!

"You have to be Christian to marry in a church in Britain, is Britain an apartheid state? If this is the standard to be set for apartheid states then most countries could be considered as such..."

in israel secular marrige are outlawed. only religios marrige are allowed. because of this law jews cannot marry arabs. in britian a blacks can marry whites.

"Israel is democratic and secular, if you're talking about advocating a binational state then why isn't the Israeli Communist party outlawed?"

i didn't meant that parties that talk about binational state are outlawed, i meant that they cannot participate in the elections. and the israeli communist party does not talk about binational state. and there are many religios laws in israel.

"Socialism is economics and economics alone - you can be a Christian fundamentalist, an authoritarian, a homophobe, etc, etc or whatever and as long as you advocate state ownership of major industries and the abolition of private property then you’re still a Socialist."

michael de panama and you are going to have a lot of fun together.

[Babar]

"this is the government policy!!! this is not a policy of Jewish Agency!!! the government can create areas where arab can't live, even if they have israeli citizenship!!!!!"

Yeah, but the two are connected, etc - as I've said I don't support it entirely.

"in israel secular marrige are outlawed. only religios marrige are allowed. because of this law jews cannot marry arabs. in britian a blacks can marry whites."

A Black Briton can marry a white Briton in Church, yes, if they're both Christian. Likewise if an Arab were to convert to Judaism then that Arab could marry a Jew.... this is hardly apartheid.

"i didn't meant that parties that talk about binational state are outlawed, i meant that they cannot participate in the elections. and the israeli communist party does not talk about binational state. and there are many religios laws in israel."

http://www.israel.marxist.com/eng/unitstruggle.htm

This isn't the Israeli Communist party, but I can't find their site (I've seen it before, though) but I found this on Marxist.com - seems to be advocating a binational state to me.

"michael de panama and you are going to have a lot of fun together."


...?

[new democracy]

"A Black Briton can marry a white Briton in Church, yes, if they're both Christian. Likewise if an Arab were to convert to Judaism then that Arab could marry a Jew.... this is hardly apartheid."

first of all, a black men and a white women in britian can marry each other in a secular marrige. here secular marrige is not allowed.

"http://www.israel.marxist.com/eng/unitstruggle.htm

This isn't the Israeli Communist party, but I can't find their site (I've seen it before, though) but I found this on Marxist.com - seems to be advocating a binational state to me."

as i said before, i didn't meant outlawed, i meant cannot cannot participate in the elections. you probably can't read hebrew, but if you can you will see that every report in their newspaper(which is called "this is the way" )that talks about the palestinian says somewhere something like "end the fascist war!!! two states for two nations!!!". if you can read hevrew: http://www.maki.org.il/body_index.html .

"michael de panama and you are going to have a lot of fun together."


...?"
i said that because MDP had called the stalinists fascists and they claimed to be true communists by saying "we want to abolish private property" so he eaplaind to them why their arguments are worthless. if he will talk to you he will probably argue wirh you for this statement:"Socialism is economics and economics alone - you can be a Christian fundamentalist, an authoritarian, a homophobe, etc, etc or whatever and as long as you advocate state ownership of major industries and the abolition of private property then you’re still a Socialist.'

[IHP]

It is also an aparteid state, as it is almost impossible for a non jewish arab to get a housing permit within Israel, even on the very outskirts. Precious few have ever recieved one. Some are built anyway and are knocked down. How is this not blatant racial/religious segregation?

I said that you are not progressive because you are stuck to one idea, and you can't see the other side. Just because you are a socialist, it doesn't mean that you are automatically progressive. The reason I said that (and prove me wrong if you will..) is beacause to progress you have to advocate social and political reform, whereas you simply defend.

And for crying out loud I'm not a bloody anti-semite. You have no grounds for this accusation. Because I feel that the arabs have it little tougher over there doesn't mean that I condemn all Jews. Ok? we clear?

--IHP

(Edited by i hate pinochet at 6:32 am on Oct. 24, 2002)

[Comrade Babar]

"first of all, a black men and a white women in britian can marry each other in a secular marrige. here secular marrige is not allowed."

Yes... but, why would an Arab who was true to his/her religion marry a Jew in any case? I found out that there was no secular marriage in Israel a few months ago and at the time I was quite surprised, but having thought about it - it's not really too much of a restriction on anyone's freedom or happiness.

i hate pinochet, I didn't call you an anti-semite - I think some posts on this forum are anti-semitic such as Angie's topic title and her defence of the neo-Nazi article. I do advocate (democratic) social change towards socialism in every country - an Internationale socialist Middle East is a noble ideal to strive for but the biggest obstacle towards this certainly isn't Israel.

[new democracy]

Comrade Babar, i don't understand why you defend israel. and you didn't realize one important thing: zionism is a bourgeoisie ideology. hertzel was rich. in that time jewish workers have rejected zionism, and most of them choose socialism and communism. second zionism and anti semitism are actually fit each other. as Henryk Erlichthe, the leader of the marxist jewish party "bund" said "Zionism has always been a Siamese twin of anti-Semitism and of every kind of national chauvinism." while the bund were fighting the nazis(they had a huge role in the gheto warsha uprising), the World Zionist Organization (WZO, headed by Chaim Weizmann) continued to cooperate with the most reactionary and anti-Semitic elements of European society to gain favor for its project in Palestine. For example:

The head of the WZO's Zionist Rescue Committee in Budapest during the war, Rudolf Kastner, later a prominent member of Israel's government under Prime Minister Ben Gurion, collaborated with the Nazis. Kastner was made a V.I.P. by the Nazis and not required to wear a yellow Star of David because, in exchange for being allowed to hand pick a small number of educated Jews to emigrate to Palestine, he helped lure thousands of Hungarian Jews to their death without a fight by arranging for phony postcards "from other Jews" to convince them that the trains to the death camps were merely taking them to be "resettled."

The Zionist leader Yitzhak Shamir, a future Israeli Prime Minister, in 1941 proposed an alliance with the Nazis against Great Britain, writing to Nazi leaders: "In the matter of concept, we identify with you. So why not collaborate?"

i don't understand why you defend this bourgeoisie ideology.

[new democracy]

and here is a link for you: http://www.azmibishara.info/petition.html . see how israel is "democratic".

[Reuben]

Damn Straight New Democracy. Elrligh was great, have you read any of his stuff? he was quite critical of Lenin.

Anyway going bakck to your excellent post you ae completely right. When a Polish Minister declared 'there are three million too many Jews in Poland' the zionists said he was right.

UIn 1939 the Jewish workers rejected the zionists 70 per cent of Jews voting BUndist. And the behaviour oif zionists in the was as you say a disgrace. Nationalism can never resolve the class conflicts which exist between the workers and the bourgioesie

[new democracy]

another example that show that Henryk Erlichthe was right in every word. it is well known fact that hertzel has met with the governmnet of the tzar, and that include the tzar interior minister, Wjatscheslaw Plehwe, the man believed responsible for the notorious massacre of Jews at Kishinev. those people found zionism to be good since a jewish state will be the best way to get rid of the 7 million russian Jews. and there is also his connections with Keizer Willhelm, the men that said "the jew cannot be a true patriot and must be contained by pogroms if necessary".

[Baltic]

Quote. But why would an Arab who was true to his/her religion marry a Jew in any case. Unquote.

How about why Hitler banned mixed marriages between Jews and Aryans? Same BS and hatred.

How about love and life you looser.

What a pathetic statement. What the hell has religion the great divider got to do with love and marriage?

I believe there is god and not one who would divide.

Man does that well enough.

No wonder the Israelis whom had earned much sympathy for past history are now being looked upon as the new Nazi.

Baltic

[Comrade Babar]

New Democracy it's true and very unfortunate that some Zionists collaborated with the Nazis at the beginning of the Second World War... but Jews from Palestine fought with the British, Mussolini bombed Tel-Aviv.

"We will fight the war as if there were no White Paper, and we will fight the White Paper as if there were no war."

I don't think I know enough about the affair with the Arab Knesset member to comment, but I very vaguely remember reading his speech at the anti-War rally in Iraq and it was very critical of Israel - not that that is sufficient justification to disregard democratic process. As I said I don't know much about it.

Baltic: That's silly - there are Jews of the same race as the Palestinians.

[IHP]

"i hate pinochet, I didn't call you an anti-semite - "

Sorry, my mistake, I thought...

"Why am I not progressive because I attack anti-semites"

...was directed towards me.

--IHP

[Comrade Babar]

No, not at all. It was directed more towards people like Angie who may not be anti-semites but endorse anti-semitic things.

[Blasphemy]

Quote: from new democracy on 9:00 pm on Oct. 24, 2002
and here is a link for you: http://www.azmibishara.info/petition.html . see how israel is "democratic".


Beshara's immunity was lifted because he broke the israeli law. he left israel without authorization, and sneaked into a country which is declared by israel to be hostile. he should be fired from the knesset for acting against the law of the country which he serves.

[Conghaileach]

We held a protest outside the Waterfront last Tuesday night. Despite the bad weather (it was pissing rain), over 100 people turned up. A few from Sinn Fein, a few from the SWP, a few from the trade union Unison plus people from the Ireland-Palestine Solidarity Campaign. Not to mention a the others.

http://www.che-lives.com/cgi/community/upload/waterfront-protest.jpg
(I'm the person second from the left, with the flag in my right hand.)

[Sinistra]

To CiaranB .

First thing i want to tell you is that the real solidarity that the Irish may have is with Israel . the Jewish commbat against the british ocupation in the 30'ies , is copy of the Irish commbat against the british .

the other thing that i want to ask you is : why are you demonstrating against Israel ?

[Blasphemy]

because israel is an apartheid state which controls a population of 3.5 million people, denying them the right for self determination and the right to live a normal life, without having tanks rolling in the streets. i think it's a good reason to demonstrate against it, but i do it in Tel Aviv.

[Conghaileach]

Violence is always a last resort. Anything peaceful that has an effect is good, IMHO.

[Sinistra]

blasphemy .
Israel isnt an apartheid state , i tell you that from self experience , i am not Jewish , and i have never felt being discreminated by the authorities .
What is happining in the teretories is war . the u.s wasnt baned from any dance contests while it was fighting germany , killing thousands , even millions of inocent sitizens .

[new democracy]

i live in israel too. i am jewish, and you are claiming to be arab. are you for real!? when arab people live in the negev in unofficial vilages with no water or electricity, this is not apartheid? when there are laws saying the government can make areas for jews only, when arabs, no matter if they are citizens or not, can't live there, is not apartheid!?

[Sinistra]

I am not claiming to be an arab .

to al of the "bedwins" in the negev i have nothing to say that the israely goverment cant deliver water and electrisity to every shit hole in the negev .
i know that israel has some dark sides , but that doesnt mean that it is an apartheid state .
I am not Jewish , i am not christian , althow israel is the home of the Jewish people it is my home , and i never felt hated or dicriminated by the authoreties .

[Blasphemy]

did you ever think that maybe the bedouins have to live in "shitholes", as you called it, because the government won't give them construction permits, so they build illegaly.

maybe, just maybe, the graduation percentage in the arab sectore is significantly lower than in the jewish sector because the ministry of education discriminates them and gives them a much lower budget than the jewish schools get.

and do you remember october 2000? 13 arab-israelis were murdered by the police because they were protesting. how many jewish protestors were ever killed by the police? none. yet, the finger is quick to pull the trigger when it comes to arabs... surprising...

israel is not formally an apartheid state, but it acts like on in many ways.

[Sinistra]

I read your post , and i was impresed .
but at the end i saw your quote , you mean Rabin right ? . well let me tell you somthing about Rabin , when Arafat came to Gaza Rabin said that " he will fight the terorists without Bagaz ot B'zelem " . so dont talk to me about the human rights .

[Blasphemy]

Rabin also said that "violence erodes the foundations of democracy". he said that "the path of peace is better than the path of war". he said "enough of blood and tears". he said to arafat that "we do not seek revenge". it is the rabin who said those things that was assassinated, not any other rabin.

[Sinistra]

The Fact the you wrote in you post , "rabin ALSO said ...bla bla bla " . .stalin also said many loving things , he is no saint for me . and no saint for the 20 milions he killed .

[Blasphemy]

rabin didn't only say, he acted.