Zapatista Red Alert

[Enragé]

why exactly did they proclaim it and does this mean they will start defending themselves from the federales again?

[Organic Revolution]

they issued this because Marcos thinks that the federales are going to invade chiapas again, but with blazing barrels. (shooting)

[Enragé]

k...do you think they stand a chance?

[Organic Revolution]

hmm... thats a tough one. the zapatistas have ak's and home made bombs and the mexican army has us made weapons. so logistacally they shoud lose but as history shows that less armed people CAN win.

[cult.45]

such as when castro's 800 man army won a grossly asymmetric war vs. Batista's army.

[Enragé]

i think the EZLN is gonna win, as long as they have the peoples support. I dont see any reason of that support ever wavering.

[Organic Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 02:56 PM
such as when castro's 800 man army won a grossly asymmetric war vs. Batista's army.
right exactly like that, or like vietnam. i agree newkindofsoldier if they have the peoples support, than if the army attacks them the whole country could rise up... but its all a game of chance.

[Hefer]

They have to fight a gaurilla war in order to win; roadside bombs, traps, ambushes etc. The federales are obviously back by the U$, it's just another CIA war in Latin America to ensure their dominace.

[Red Heretic]

This is a really good question.

I strongly feel that the way the the zapatistas are going about waging struggle in Mexico is wrong. Their movement has enourmous potential, but not with the way that they are conducting it.

That Zapatistas need to stop waiting for the state to come crush them, and to take up the banner of Protracted People's War. That is, they need to constantly be engaging in armed struggle with weak parts of the police and army. This will lead to them building up their weaponry with US guns and wealth, while the enemy army slowly weakens. Only when the guerilla army is more powerful than the armed forces of the state should it seek to engage in decisive battles.

The Zapatistas need to drop the "peaceful struggle for indigenous rights" program, and seek to overthrow the imperialist-puppet state. Change WILL NOT come from the imperialist lap dogs.

[Enragé]

i agree makhno. However in the fairly quiet 11 years the zapatistas have existed out in the open, they have created a truly peoples democratic system, finalizing this in 2003. They have consolidated their support, and perhaps now they will spread out over the country

[danny android]

No I don't agree. It is good that the Zapatistas are waiting for the government to act against them. If they instigate violience with the government this will give the rest of the world a bad image of them.

[Enragé]

they will try to do this anyway.
You know what they said on CNN?!

"Zapatista Leader (which is incorrect) declares Red Alert after government drug raids"

So they are trying to make it look like he's protecting drug manufacturers etc.

[Edelweiss]

Originally posted by rise [email protected] 22 2005, 10:16 PM
hmm... thats a tough one. the zapatistas have ak's and home made bombs and the mexican army has us made weapons. so logistacally they shoud lose but as history shows that less armed people CAN win.
I'm sceptical about that the EZLN has any chance to beat the Mexican army miltarily.

However, the background of this declaration seems to be different, as I have read on IMC Germany: A couple of months ago the EZLN has published a manifesto where they called the Mexican judiciary to finally arest and punish those responable (mainly paramilitaries) for the numerous murders against supporters of the EZLN. Not very surprisingly, nothing happened. The EZLN announed that, if the Mexican judiciary won't care about it, the EZLN will care about it, and arrest and punish the muderers. Possibly now the times of "rebel justice" has has come. The response of the paramilirary and regular military would probaply mean some kind of civil war.

[viva le revolution]

The EZLN will have to fight a guerilla war. it is pointless for them to engage in battles. Given the federales' superiority in numbers and weaponry and the CIA. It will take time and they need to appeal to the wider world, not as an indigenous struggle but appeal to the people of wider latin america, to get support from the people of the region in general. Then the authorities will not only have a military but moral dilemma.

[danny android]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 03:07 PM
they will try to do this anyway.
You know what they said on CNN?!

"Zapatista Leader (which is incorrect) declares Red Alert after government drug raids"

So they are trying to make it look like he's protecting drug manufacturers etc.
Seriously. When did news stop being news and start being propoganda.

[Enragé]

i think it has always been...

[novemba]

Do you think that there is any chance of the Zapatista's liberating the whole country?

I think they could do it with Fidel and Hugo's help. Here's a chance for Fidel to go down blazing, show us revolution is still in him. I'd like to see him in the frontlines in Mexico like Che was in the Congo. Except I hope that they'll succede although I don't think the US would take kindly to a communist country on its southern border....

[Red Heretic]

Originally posted by danny [email protected] 23 2005, 03:04 PM
It is good that the Zapatistas are waiting for the government to act against them. If they instigate violience with the government this will give the rest of the world a bad image of them.
What you are saying is hurtful to the masses just like the man in your avatar.

The entire existence of the imperialist state is based on violence. The Zapatistas are living in conditions of subsistence labor, and are on the verge of starvation literally every moment. The state has already committed countless atrocities against them.

What you are asking for, is for them to wait to be murdered. It is like asking for a woman to wait for a man to finish raping her before she resists. Women who are being raped have every right to fight back.

Sooner or later you are going to have to accept that the capitalist media is going to promote a negative image of them no matter what they do. Unless, of course, they serve the role of puppets to slow revolutionary energy like Gandhi did. It is important to understand the Gandhi had literally NOTHING to to do with India gaining independace (which never really happened anyway, seing as how they are now under the vail of US Imperialism). The entire British Empire collapsed all around the world, not just in India. The British pulled out of India because they were pulling out of everywhere. The claim that not physically resisting your rapist somehow stops rape is harmful and oppressive.

The Zapatistas must go onto the offesive and build up their power through Protracted People's War or they will never be able to accumulate enough power to sieze the Mexican state.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 10:42 PM
Do you think that there is any chance of the Zapatista's liberating the whole country?

I think they could do it with Fidel and Hugo's help. Here's a chance for Fidel to go down blazing, show us revolution is still in him. I'd like to see him in the frontlines in Mexico like Che was in the Congo. Except I hope that they'll succede although I don't think the US would take kindly to a communist country on its southern border....
no, forget about fidel! Hugo...maybe...but fidel..NO. Fidel would only harm the zapatistas struggle! The zapatistas dont want to turn mexico in another cuba, they want to mold it into a country never seen before, a country which is truly democratic. WITHOUT MACHISMO, something Fidel uses...a lot. If Fidel wants to support the zapatistas he should resign now.

[danny android]

Originally posted by makhno+Jun 24 2005, 01:20 AM--> (makhno @ Jun 24 2005, 01:20 AM)
danny [email protected] 23 2005, 03:04 PM
It is good that the Zapatistas are waiting for the government to act against them. If they instigate violience with the government this will give the rest of the world a bad image of them.
What you are saying is hurtful to the masses just like the man in your avatar.

The entire existence of the imperialist state is based on violence. The Zapatistas are living in conditions of subsistence labor, and are on the verge of starvation literally every moment. The state has already committed countless atrocities against them.

What you are asking for, is for them to wait to be murdered. It is like asking for a woman to wait for a man to finish raping her before she resists. Women who are being raped have every right to fight back.

Sooner or later you are going to have to accept that the capitalist media is going to promote a negative image of them no matter what they do. Unless, of course, they serve the role of puppets to slow revolutionary energy like Gandhi did. It is important to understand the Gandhi had literally NOTHING to to do with India gaining independace (which never really happened anyway, seing as how they are now under the vail of US Imperialism). The entire British Empire collapsed all around the world, not just in India. The British pulled out of India because they were pulling out of everywhere. The claim that not physically resisting your rapist somehow stops rape is harmful and oppressive.

The Zapatistas must go onto the offesive and build up their power through Protracted People's War or they will never be able to accumulate enough power to sieze the Mexican state. [/b]
Ok I can see your point about the Zapatistas waiting to be murdered. But I just don't want them to be labeled as another terrorist group, and not shown to the american public to be what they really are, the peoples army of mexico. I see your point and now agree that they should go on the offensive, because sometimes the offensive is self defense if waiting for your opponent to act means certain death

I believe it was che who said "once democracy has failed war has already been declared" (this isn't an exact quote I don't have guerrilla warfare right in front of me and I am going off of memorie so sorry if I am wrong)

[Red Heretic]

No matter what happens, if they come close to winning state power (which they aren't even talking abut anymore), the imperialist media is going to demonize them and pretend they are terrorists. As Mao pointed out, we should be happy that they do this, because it reveals to us that we have become a fundamental threat to the power of the oppressors.

If they were not saying horrible things about us, we should be worried, for it would mean that we are not a threat to their power.