Everything is Relative

[Clarksist]

Many leftists hold that everything is relative, but isn't that itself not relative?

I believe in the statement, but how do we justify the hypocrisy of the statement itself?

It is a lot like nihilism where they say nothing is ever absolutely true or right or just. But wouldn't that statement be absolutely true?

[LSD]

Many leftists hold that everything is relative, but isn't that itself not relative?

Indeed.


how do we justify the hypocrisy of the statement itself?

We can't.

Which is why we should avoid blanket generalizations and absolutes.


I believe in the statement

Why?

Do you think that illegitimacy of capitalism is "relative"?

Is the validity of slavery "relative"?

In a way, both are. They are undesirable options relative to available alternatives. But, then, isn't calling something more undesirable than something else making an absolute statement regarding desirability?

That is, by declaring one thing more desirable than another, you are, implicitly, saying that the definition of desirability is, itself, objectively real and not dependent on the existance of alternate references.

You see, all things are not relative. Many things are, perhaps even most things, certainly a good deal of social issues are, but "everything"? No.

Facts are not relative.

The speed of light in a vaccum is a constant. Fact.
Gravity force is a result of mass and distance. Fact.

These things are not "relative", they are established truths.

They could, theoretically, be disproven at some future date by some future means, but if they are, then they will be untrue and that untrurth will be no more "relative" than the truth previously ascribed to them.

Saying that "everything is relative" is a contradictory declaration, and it is contradictory specifically because it makes assumptions about the universe that are not only unfounded but entirely at odds with its own assumptions!

It's like saying all assertions are false, it's pure lunacy.

So let's not fall victim to it!

[Moral_Imbalance]

Everything seems relative.......... in the sense that nothing can really be known.
You say that facts are not relative what makes u so positve that facts arent.........
Facts are agreed ideas from all parties in know situations.....
but what about the unkown situations..........how can u know if those sames laws of gravity apply in those situation..........


They could, theoretically, be disproven at some future date by some future means, but if they are, then they will be untrue and that untrurth will be no more "relative" than the truth previously ascribed to them.


we do not seem to waant to look at the whole picture.....if u include past, present, and Future everything must be relative for nothing can be known for certian.


Saying that "everything is relative" is a contradictory declaration, and it is contradictory specifically because it makes assumptions about the universe that are not only unfounded but entirely at odds with its own assumptions!

By stating everything is relative u are in itself stating that there is relativity in your own statment. Thus making your own statment correct.........

[LSD]

Everything seems relative.......... in the sense that nothing can really be known.

That's not what "relative" means.


You say that facts are not relative what makes u so positve that facts arent.........
Facts are agreed ideas from all parties in know situations.....

No, facts are established truths verified by observational and experimential data.


but what about the unkown situations..........how can u know if those sames laws of gravity apply in those situation..........

Because all available evidence suggests that it does.

So right now, it seems that gravity is constant (that is the laws, not a particular level of force).

If there was contradictory evidence, tomorrow, fine. But, again, right now, there's no indication that gravity is "relative". Therefore the statement that everything is relative falls.


By stating everything is relative u are in itself stating that there is relativity in your own statment.

But the statement that everything is relative implies that that relativity itself is not relative. That is, if everything is relative, then that relativity must be as well, meaning that everything cannot be said to be relative!

[JazzRemington]

The statement that everything is subjective is in and of itself objective. But I don't think it's objective (i.e. wrong) to state that something is subjective. Otherwise, EVERYTHING we do or believe is based on hypocracy.

[Moral_Imbalance]

Lysergic Acid Diethylamide please excuse my previous posts i was in a bit of a alchohol driven mind set...... (i.e. closeminded and arrogant) you have a seemingly correct statement and i must agree that most statments are relative but not all.......

[Organic Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 10:00 AM
Lysergic Acid Diethylamide please excuse my previous posts i was in a bit of a alchohol driven mind set...... (i.e. closeminded and arrogant) you have a seemingly correct statement and i must agree that most statments are relative but not all.......
or you realized you are wrong and now are trying to ignore it :lol:

[Moral_Imbalance]

And so i have changed my mind on the matter..........
Why would I ignore the concept of me being wrong?
What point would there be in it?

[Rasta Sapian]

"Everything is Relative"

ok,

humm,

well,

lets see here,

words they are yes,

Everything ie. anything, something, a combination or anythings, or everything defined by a specific reality.

is Relative or to be Relative ie. relates, connects, is similar. I ways that an apple and an orange are different (objectively speaking) or are they relative ie. they are both tree fruits.

The statement itself "Everything is Relative" is an objective statement. Confining the word everything to be relitive or related. This may in fact not be untrue however, does lead us into a debate that the phrase could be an oxymoron or a existentially true statement.

Either way, I am not going to stop using it, especially when things appear to be subjective................... ;)

[jentle]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 21 2005, 04:25 AM
[QUOTE]

You see, all things are not relative. Many things are, perhaps even most things, certainly a good deal of social issues are, but "everything"? No.

Facts are not relative.

The speed of light in a vaccum is a constant. Fact.
Gravity force is a result of mass and distance. Fact.

These things are not "relative", they are established truths.

They could, theoretically, be disproven at some future date by some future means, but if they are, then they will be untrue and that untrurth will be no more "relative" than the truth previously ascribed to them.

This is exactly what Plato and Socrates were getting @. Truth/fact is supposed to be unchanging and immutable - that is why along with them, Aristotle thought math was and should be the major guide in life - it's the closest to reason.

Gravity is fact? Last time I looked, gravity was a theory, because just as you said, it can be disproven. It works for now yes.. But does that means it's the truth if it can change in the future? If it's fact can change and become false?

- not saying I completely disagree with you, but this a question philosophers to even this day and age pose.

[LSD]

Gravity is fact? Last time I looked, gravity was a theory

It's as much of a fact as any scientific proposition can be.

Although it is, of course, a theory, it is assumed to be fact by all serious scientists.


It works for now yes.. But does that means it's the truth if it can change in the future?

It means it's the truth as far as we can presently determine, which is all that we can ever say.


If it's fact can change and become false?

No. If it is proven false, then that means that it was never truly a fact but was errorneously labeled as such.

But anything can be, theoretically, proven to be false. Therefore we must make use of the data that we have and that we can gather and make determinations thereof.

Based on that, we can say that as far as we know, gravity is a fact.