Elections In The Middle East

[Paradox]

So what do you make of them? In Lebanon some Catholic group came out on top I hear, with a majority of parliament seats. And I read an article saying that the elections may have been rigged in Iran. I also heard that in Iran, it was a close race between a conservative and ultra-conservative. I bring this up because I want to know about the obstacles facing Socialists/Communists in that region. I remember hearing that "Iran loves the U$A," and that it's the fanatics in power who stage anti-american demonstrations. So what is the attitude towards america? And how strong a Leftist movement exists in this country? Anyone know? Your thoughts and opinions are appreciated.

[Camarada]

I don't know about Lebanon, but I don't think you mean Catholic, perhaps you are referring to the Maronite Christians?

Rafsanjani is not allied with the Iranian conservatives, I hear he was supported by most of the reformists. I don't know if his politics are conservative or not, but he is the best chance for more reform in Iran as compared to the extreme right Ahmadinezhad.

And whatever you heard that supposedly is was only the government that dislikes the U.S. was just propaganda, the people don't like the U.S. either.

[codyvo]

I don't know much about their elections, how they are done and whether they are done in a fair way or not, but I do think that it is quite hypocritical of the USA to say they are trying to bring democracy to the middle east, when we do not yet have democracy here.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 08:27 PM
I also heard that in Iran, it was a close race between a conservative and ultra-conservative.
That probably does not reflect what most Iranians want. This election's apparently been characterized by physical intimidation of voters, and definitely by widespread voter disillusionment...i.e. what's the point in voting, the mullahs run everything anyway.

The liberal president Khatami's been in office for years, hasn't been able to change much, those who voted for him have become disillusioned.

****

In Lebanon, the anti-Syrian opposition has the majority of seats, it's a coalition of groups based among Sunni Muslims, Druze, and the Christian population. They probably did better among Sunnis and Druze than Christians actually - Michel Aoun's group got a bunch of the parliamentary seats assigned to Christians and I haven't heard of anyone but the anti-Syrian opposition getting Sunni or Druze seats.

The Lebanese elections don't really tell much as far as I can tell; most things were mapped out in advance by the religiously divided electoral system and horse-trades among the parties.

[Clarksist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 03:02 AM
...I do think that it is quite hypocritical of the USA to say they are trying to bring democracy to the middle east, when we do not yet have democracy here.
Exactly!

Citizens should be outraged at our lack of democracy and the money-wins-everything politcal spectrum of the US.

Just because we call it a democracy does not make it a democracy. Just like in Iran, Iraq, and Lebanon... you can call it whatever the fuck you want, but that doesn't make it true.

[Free Palestine]

I think the anti-Syrian movement in Lebanon masquerading as "pro-democracy" is rotten to the core. They are dominated by Christian and Druze minorities, and from what I've gathered, are not calling for genuine democracy at all. They are calling for elections under a corrupt carve-up system which means no Muslim can ever become President and gives privileged Christians half the seats in parliament.

I tend to side with the impoverished, poorer, and historically downtrodden Shia, who form 40% of the population according to conservative press estimates (I think that if you factor in immigration the Shi`ites are probably between 50-55 % of the Lebanese people inside the country). As opposed to the right-wing "opposition," which is largely a Christian-Druze affair, and represents only a minority of the population, who generally hail from the better-off sections of Lebanese society.

Unfortunately, I do not have accurate figures for the size of the sectarian communities in Lebanon because the Maronite Patriarchate adamantly refuse to update the 1932 census of Lebanon in order to maintain the myth of "Maronite majority" in Lebanon. Or perhaps to postpone facing a painful reality; that those "despised" Shi`ites constitute a very large segment of the population..

[Man of the Century]

It is time for Lebanon to make its own decisions apart from ANY foreign interference.

[turkishXstyle]

Originally posted by Man of the [email protected] 21 2005, 08:36 PM
It is time for Lebanon to make its own decisions apart from ANY foreign interference.
thats almost impossible! a socialist governemt would be suicde for poor countries, because the Worldbank, IMF and the USA would block all their contacts to the other countries, also they would stop any charity-payments, even though the poor countires are reliant on them

[Severian]

All that has happened to Cuba; but they're still standing and in some ways advancing. Most importantly, still ready to aid the world revolution every opportunity they get.

Lemme suggest for starters that cancelling the massive foreign debt many countries owe, would more than make up for not getting more loans from the IMF.

[Andy Bowden]

I heard a few weeks ago that Hisbullah swept Lebanon's local elections and won them - but now I hear an anti-Syrian alliance has the majority. How can this be true? Or have I been misinformed? :(

[Severian]

A Hizbollah-Amal alliance swept the elections among Shi'a. Not remotely a surprise as this was an alliance of the two major Shi'a parties.

[Free Palestine]

The idea that the right-wing anti-Syrian opposition has the majority is very suspicious to me considering it is largely a Christian-Druze affair. Christians and Druze, who might I add, only represent only a minority of the population.

One must make crystal clear that the anti-Syrian movement in Lebanon does NOT speak for Lebanon. We must factor in the other demographic realities. The opposition is living under the illusion that it considers itself a spokesman for Lebanon. They do not enjoy more than one-quarter to one-third (at best) of Lebanese public opinion. The one-quarter to one-third is more affluent (thus has better access to Lebanese, Arab, and Western media) than the overwhelming majority of Lebanese who are not noticed by US media coverage.

Most of them do not want democracy at all but the return to the corrupt carve-up system which means no Muslim can ever become President and gives privileged Christians half the seats in parliament. One of the politicians championing the anti-Syrian cause is a right-wing Christian named Pierre Gemayel, who is part of the Phalange party. The same Phalange party who massacred 2,000 Palestinian refugees under Israeli floodlights in the infamous Sabra and Shatila massacre (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabra_and_Shatila) in '82. This guy recently said at a Phalagne party dinner that voting wasn't a matter of majorities but of the "quality" of voters. (Source: The Lebanese Daily Star (http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=12025))

[Xiao Banfa]

The bourgeois cretins that put their faith (genuinely, not the bribed ones) in Said Hariri, the oligarch, in the name of "sovereignty" and "democracy" against Syria are misled. Nasserite Syria has helped Lebanon steer it's way through utter chaos.
Many lebanese Shiites support the Syrians and the pro-Syrian alliance (Led by a Maronite Christian) is a government of national unity. The anti-Syrian fools don't realise that Syrian influence has helped keep the resistance alive in the Bekaa valley.
Do they care if Israel moves in? The palestinians will become even more encircled and helpless than they already are.

[Xiao Banfa]

The Amerikkkans will use bourgeois democracy if it will crush their enemies.
It's interesting they chose to promote "democracy" in a country with a large group of pro-west bourgeois. Democracy for the Saudi people is a matter of lip service.