Cuban who live in exile ...

[Annelie]

I just watched a documentation about Cuba and there was an interview with a Cuban lady who lives in exile in Miami. She talked extremly bad about Casto etv. ...

I would like to know what you think about Cuban who live in exile in the U.S.?

[cynical]

castro is an asshole,he betrayed his own ideals.
i watched a documentary about him,and in some old interview they asked him when will he cut his beard.he said when cuba becomes succesfull.he still has it

[Annelie]

I don't think Fidel is an asswhole ... and I think Cuba is really succesful ... there didn't get weak and let the US rule their wonderful country again!!!

[bluerev002]

mainly the ppl who got exiled were batistas and and counter-revolutionaries. I gues it was either, be exiled or be killed. ^.^ thats not a very hard choice

but most of them arent really exiles, just ppl who flead cuz they had lots of money in cuba and it was taken away by the "new cuba"

[PunkRawker677]

I'm Cuba. I live(d) in miami. I don't admire castro, but i realize the amount of good he has done for cuba, and i wont allow people to ignore it.

Cynical - I've seen that interview. I think Castro is a bit attached to his beard. i don't think he can let it go.

[Raztro]

Is anyone gonna watch his interview in the next hour?

[Raztro]

IIts gonna be on abc...

[bluerev002]

yep i sure am, but for me its in the next three hours

[Xvall]

Castro isn't the nicest guy; but he's a saint compared to that puppet dictator.

[PunkRawker677]

I saw it. He dodged a few questions but overall gave some very good answers.

Are the poor people in mexico an example of capitalism working?

[Venezolano]

this post is funny... americans and europeans talking good about Cuba, come to venezuela or come to colombia and u will find out the truth about the misery in which Cuba is because of fidels fault... Cuba is worst than any latin american country. Like i said again, come to venezuela or to colombia or to any south american country. Everyone here hates Fidel Castro and the cuban communism.

[Venezolano]

by the way a poor mexican or a poor venezuelan lives better than a common cuban inside cuba.
You people should stop praising a murderer like fidel castro, and his bloody dictatorship. I bet none of you have ever lived there.
By the way "Going as a tourist doesnt count''.
So 3 million cubans spreaded over miami and the rest of the latin american countries are "counter revolutionaries"?
Who knows more, a medium class american or european like you or a cuban that already suffered living in cuba?
If fidel castro is so "great" then why doesnt he make free elections? he knows he would lose.
So please, next time before any of you praise a murderer like fidel castro, first make a big search about it.

[Annelie]

Venezolano ... you honestly think so? Well, I've been you Ecuador a couple of times and you know what? People would be happier if someone like Fidel Castro would rule their country. Right now they are extremly under the American influence and guess what? The Dollar didn't help the average people to have a better life! NO it's the the other way around ... the $$$ make the rich richer and the poor??? I think it was a mistake and weak of the ecuadorian government to get the Dollar. They sold themselves and their wonderful country to a country which only think for their own profit. There is no good thing on it ... think it's time that I go there and rule the country *g*
And I got the feeling that Che and Cuba are not hated!!!
By the way, I assum that you have the point of view that people in Columbia or Venezuela have a better lifeand the people in Cuba. I mean don't really know Columbia neither Venezuela, but should be similar to Ecuador and the health system, the education ... oh gosh it sucks so badly ... that's nothing to be pround of ...

[Panamarisen]

I haven´t lived in Cuba, and I do know the Cuban Government has done a lot of mistakes..., but remember that the sucess of the Cuban Revolution in so many fields has to do not only with changing the old regime back in 1959, but with actually creating the Revolution day by day, year after year, learning and studying to do their best, trying to make the population understand and be proud of the idea of real justice for everyone (and achieving it), making Health and Education priorities of the Government, trying to teach solidarity between the people (which means a spirit of sacrifice in many senses), and so on.
It´s not unusual that a lot of Latin American people (Cuban or not) don´t want to know about the Cuban Revolution and its ideas, because they really don´t know what it is about, and they themselves try to live as Father USA and Mother Europe say people should live: you are as important as the quantity of money you got and you are able to spend.
I think the must difficult task Cuba got today is making its population still believe in the important ideals of the Revolution, having an embargo of more than 40 years now (!!!). With such an embargo, it´s VERY difficult to live, people get tired finally and want to live better, and some will try to leave the country to get a better living (no wonder!). Must countries today would not be able to survive in these conditions (do you realize how many children and old people are actually dying in Irak because of the lack of medicines and food thanks to a 10 year embargo from the U.S. Government?). Cuba is still standing...!

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Conghaileach]

from Venezolano:
by the way a poor mexican or a poor venezuelan lives better than a common cuban inside cuba.

If this is true, then why did the World Bank praise Cuba for the great living standards of the people, despite the fact that Cuba did the exact opposite of what the World Bank suggests should be done.

In Argentina, we saw the glory of capitalism in full flow. The Argentine government did everything that the US, through the IMF, made them do -including the privatisation of all essential services- and the country has been in terrible state for almost a year.

[Venezolano]

If Cuba is so great, then why do the people risk their lifes in the sea with crappy rafts to go to Miami to escape from the repression and the misery and povertY?

If Cuba is so great then why do people there is starving? And dont blame the USA embrago because Cuba treat turists like kings while the people is dying, and the leaders of the communist party are rich and eat a lot and can go outside of the country, while the people isnt allowed to go out.

If Cuba is so great and the marxism-leninism there is so succesfully then why do the people there is poor and the leaders including Fidel Castro are rich and living the lives of like a "monarchy". I also have to say that Fidel Castro is the most richiest Cuban of all times, and before being a guerilla-man he never worked. So how the *** did he do to get that rich??? The answer is obvious.

If Cuba is so great then why do people there die of diseases that can be easily cure? The embargo? i dont think so, because Cuba exports medicines and crap, but then why doesnt Fidel use those medicines to his people? i know why, it is because of the propaganga he wants to export.

If Cuba is so great then why does Fidel Castro wasted the Cuban money on arms and weapons and guerrillas to export the cuban revolution in the 60's. I as a latin person know very well of the latin american history, and a lot of countries here were full of guerrillas sponsored by Fidel Castro, then why did he used the money and resources to this guerrillas and why didnt he used it for the good of its own people? Also he expanded those guerrillas in Africa too.

If Cuba is so great then why does it's marxist-leninist goverment has the record of the most violatory of human rights in latin america?

If Cuba is so great and the socialist-communism-marxism-leninism regime there is so successfully why doesnt Fidel allow free elections or free press or freedom of speech there?



(Edited by Venezolano at 11:21 am on Oct. 12, 2002)


(Edited by Venezolano at 11:22 am on Oct. 12, 2002)

[Venezolano]

If this is true, then why did the World Bank praise Cuba for the great living standards of the people, despite the fact that Cuba did the exact opposite of what the World Bank suggests should be done.

this is bullcrap, the living standards in cuba are worst than any of the latin american countries.



In Argentina, we saw the glory of capitalism in full flow. The Argentine government did everything that the US, through the IMF, made them do -including the privatisation of all essential services- and the country has been in terrible state for almost a year.

Argentina suffered the same problem that all latin american countries are suffering... CORRUPTION!!! the presidents and their ministers dont care about fixing argetinas economy, they just steal the money and leave the country, thats why argentina is in bank rupt. And thats the same reason venezuela and the rest of the latin american countries are poor, because our leaders and their ministers steal all the money, thats called corruption.

[Venezolano]

Quote: from Panamarisen on 11:11 am on Oct. 12, 2002
(do you realize how many children and old people are actually dying in Irak because of the lack of medicines and food thanks to a 10 year embargo from the U.S. Government?). Cuba is still standing...!

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!


fidel castro's dictatorship is standing because he has the monopoly of the weapons and arms. The people dont want fidel anymore, and want elections, but fidel doesnt want to allow free elections.
Now you may ask "then why is fidel still in power"?
thats because he has the monopoly of the weapons...
by the way fidel is the most richiest cuban of all times... (yeah no wonder, he stole all the money, wow great revolution... while the cubans has to starve, fidel and his family and his communist party members live like kings) just check fidel's swiss account.... wasnt fidel in the top richiest men of earth in the magazine "fortune'' ? what a great revolution..... yea right.

(Edited by Venezolano at 11:32 am on Oct. 12, 2002)

[Panamarisen]

Venezolano, sorry, but I think you are not putting yourself in the place of the people that do not have access to the minimal conditions for a living, thanks to an embargo. Under these conditions, obviously some will try to emigrate, obviously people are obligued to be poor, obviously you got to take good care of the incomes tourism can give to the country...
And even so Cuba actually has one of the highest standards of Health care. They can´t import equipment or medicines, they have to INNOVATE all the time. They export doctors and their own basical equipments and medicines to a lot of countries BECAUSE OF those high standards of Cuban medicine and because of the ideals of solidarity of the Revolution.

To export the Revolution was and is still NECESSARY. The several U.S. Governments, as you know for sure, have been and are still today responsible of the most corrupt and assasin Latin American Governments have ever had. And such a small country like Cuba is the only one in the whole continent that has always tried to stop their terrible influence. Indeed, talking about human rights, don´t ever forget Pinochet, Somoza, Duvalier, and garbage like that.

Free elections, etc.: Cuban Government make very offen National boards through the mass media to know the opinions of the population and to try the improve the different situations, and improve the quality of governamental help. I´m sure, anyway, that the freedom of speech could be a lot better if it wasn´t for the criminal embargo: the Cuban Government does the best to make people understand the REASONS of the lack of food and welfare, and try to avoid people from leaving the country in the meantime (while the embargo is still there, I mean).

In any case, the fact is that, of course, the Revolution is not perfect, and Fidel, as a simple human being, isn´t either. OF COURSE! But a Revolution like the Cuban is made always to IMPROVE the life of the population, just the contrary capitalists systems try to do (rich people get richer, poor people get, as is happening specially today, poorer than ever).

HASTA LA VICTORIA SIEMPRE!

[Frosty]

"If Cuba is so great, then why do the people risk their lifes in the sea with crappy rafts to go to Miami to escape from the repression and the misery and povertY? "
Read Panamarisens post.
----------------------------------------------------------------
"If Cuba is so great and the marxism-leninism there is so succesfully then why do the people there is poor and the leaders including Fidel Castro are rich and living the lives of like a "monarchy". "
Agree, you exaggerate it a little though. Cuba is ruled by "a few".
-------------------------------------------------------------
"The embargo? i dont think so, because Cuba exports medicines and crap, but then why doesnt Fidel use those medicines to his people"
Duh, "medicines" aren't a singularum. Cuba produces lots of some medicines, and naturally they export the overflow. While the embargo makes sure other medicines isn't bought in.
------------------------------------------------------------------
" then why does Fidel Castro wasted the Cuban money on arms and weapons and guerrillas to export the cuban revolution in the 60's"
To give Cuba some protection against CIA etc. counter-revolutionarities. To help the revolutions in other countries in the struggle for world communism.
-------------------------------------------------------------
"Argentina suffered the same problem that all latin american countries are suffering... CORRUPTION!!!"
Which is a cause by capitalism.
------------------------------------------------------------------
"this is bullcrap, the living standards in cuba are worst than any of the latin american countries. "
Back up that statement.
------------------------------------------------------------------
"The people dont want fidel anymore"
In a recent election, 8 out of 13 million voted for "communism forever".
----------------------------------------------------------------
"thats because he has the monopoly of the weapons..."
Just like other leaders around the world. bushy boy has the police, fbi and army to control his population (and soon the whole world)

[PunkRawker677]

Venezolano

I didn't bother reading your posts, except the first one. South Americans would know better then me? Eh. funny. i lived in cuba, all my family lives in cuba, and i often goes to cuba. If you want to see my views, bring back one of the countless threads already made. I've done this way too many times.

[bluerev002]

so you dont think that exporting a revolution to africa is a good thing??

I am mexican and i was born in mexico, i see the way that ppl speak about fidel over there, many dont like him and many do. take in mind that most of the ppl taht DONT like him are the ppl that belive everything that they see one teh tele, read in the zeens and so on and so forth.

u said that the US ppl shouldnt say anything about cuba cuz theyve never been there, and they wouldnt know if the ppl there likedhim or not, have yoiu been to cuba? a lot of my brothers boss friends have gone and i speak to them a lot. and no they are not tourist. they say taht no one is unhappy and that no one is starving, in the streets begging for money and thath most of the ppl over there can read and are healthy and know whats going on!! cuba doesnt have freedom of the press i know, but the ppl seem to know whats going on either way.

[redstarshining]

Quote: from Venezolano on 12:12 pm on Oct. 12, 2002
If Cuba is so great, then why do the people risk their lifes in the sea with crappy rafts to go to Miami to escape from the repression and the misery and povertY?

If Cuba is so great then why do people there is starving? And dont blame the USA embrago because Cuba treat turists like kings while the people is dying, and the leaders of the communist party are rich and eat a lot and can go outside of the country, while the people isnt allowed to go out.

If Cuba is so great and the marxism-leninism there is so succesfully then why do the people there is poor and the leaders including Fidel Castro are rich and living the lives of like a "monarchy".

I also have to say that Fidel Castro is the most richiest Cuban of all times, and before being a guerilla-man he never worked. So how the *** did he do to get that rich??? The answer is obvious.

If Cuba is so great then why do people there die of diseases that can be easily cure? The embargo? i dont think so, because Cuba exports medicines and crap, but then why doesnt Fidel use those medicines to his people? i know why, it is because of the propaganga he wants to export.

If Cuba is so great then why does Fidel Castro wasted the Cuban money on arms and weapons and guerrillas to export the cuban revolution in the 60's. I as a latin person know very well of the latin american history, and a lot of countries here were full of guerrillas sponsored by Fidel Castro, then why did he used the money and resources to this guerrillas and why didnt he used it for the good of its own people? Also he expanded those guerrillas in Africa too.

If Cuba is so great then why does it's marxist-leninist goverment has the record of the most violatory of human rights in latin america?


[/quote]
After Reagan and George Bush senior made a big smear campaign against Cuba, and a lot of the US media started reporting about humen rights violations, the police force, the military and the cuban prisons were closely monitored for almost two years by Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch International. And you can be sure that these organizations are no amateurs, they won't be easily fooled. Within that period of time no cases of human rights abuse were reported. During the same period of time several serious human rights violations happened in the US.
To cover up all cases of human rights violations is certainly not possible in an entire country.
I'm not saying that such things never happened, and Cuba is certainly not an ideal society, but I think the media terribly exaggerates. And the human rights situation in other latin american countries is horrible. Take a look at Argentina, and how the government there treats their own people :(




If Cuba is so great and the socialist-communism-marxism-leninism regime there is so successfully why doesnt Fidel allow free elections or free press or freedom of speech there?



What is free press? I don't know to be honest. I seriously doubt that any capitalist country in the world has something that comes even close to free press. Here in Germany we don't have free press. We have 30+ TV stations, all of them are owned by the same companies or at least have the same sponsors ( = same source of income ). Hardly makes any difference to me, if I get the totally biased news directly from the government, or indirectly from the corporations via the media. Show me one country in the world that has free press. In my opinion, nobody should be allowed to become a reporter who directly profits from his work. The media should be open for all, and not be bound to any kind of profit. It's the governments duty to take care of that.
As for Cuba, I won't judge the media there, since I know too little about it.


And about the economy: ( classic example, I know ) Cuba has about half of the GMP of Mexico. Mexico has several billionaires, Cuba has none. The living standard cannot be too bad either. At least I cannot see that a big part of the countries population lives on dumps, such as it is the case in other latin american countries.
[/quote]
(Edited by Venezolano at 11:21 am on Oct. 12, 2002)


(Edited by Venezolano at 11:22 am on Oct. 12, 2002)


(Edited by redstarshining at 11:15 pm on Oct. 12, 2002)


(Edited by redstarshining at 9:06 am on Oct. 13, 2002)

[Venezolano]

?

(Edited by Venezolano at 5:59 am on Oct. 13, 2002)

[Borincano]

Venezolano,

Cuba is poor, yes, but no one starvs. People might not have access to the latest Nokia cell phones, but at least no one is allowed to starv. I can't say the same for México. I know many Mexicans. The great majority of them have nothing. You could put down Cuba as much as you want, but what about Venezuela? Your poverty rate is 80%, what are you doing to improve things there? None of you have free medical care or education. Cuba is not a paradise and could be much better, but the rest of Latin America isn't the garden of eden either. Why!? That's the question you should be asking and answering.

[redstarshining]

Quote: from Venezolano on 6:57 am on Oct. 13, 2002
?

(Edited by Venezolano at 5:59 am on Oct. 13, 2002)



sorry. the QUOTE /QUOTE tags don't work for me for some reason... I hope you can read it anyway

[Annelie]

Borincano ...
thank you! I have exactly the same point of view!

[bluerev002]

redstar,

yes i agree with you on that. in da US the major news groups arent free to say all they want cuz they are scard of not being the major news leaders.

[cynical]

i don´t like castro becouse people,mostly from anti-globalization movement,respect him as anti-imperialist,but he was a vassal of USSR for a long time

[redstar2000]

The capitalist definition of "free elections": A FREE ELECTION IS ONE THAT WE CAN BUY!

The capitalist definition of a "free press": A FREE PRESS IS A PRESS THAT WE OWN!

The capitalist definition of "human rights": THE ONLY REALLY IMPORTANT HUMAN RIGHT IS THE RIGHT TO BE RICH!

Why do some Cubans risk death by drowning, crossing the treacherous Florida straits? Why did some Americans risk death by thirst or freezing to cross the treacherous deserts and mountains on their way to California in 1849? (Hint: it had a little something to do with...GOLD.)

And, by the way, why does someone who hates Fidel and Cuban socialism want to post to che-lives? Shouldn't he be posting over at that other forum--I think it's called "che's-dead"?