Prepairing for the G8

[Forward Union]

Well, last night I went to another in a series of preparation workshops for the G8 protests. Its an interesting mix of Liberals and Anarchists, and I've definetly gained a lot from them. But I wont bore you with all this 'values' crap. Here are some pictures from our banner preparations class...If you remember what the banners look like, you tell me if you see then on the news ;)

Although...some may be used in local events.

btw I've blurred out the faces for obvious reasons. All photos were taken in the RISC centre (Reading-International Solidarity Centre) For those of you who may not be familiar; Reading is a place near london pronounced Red-Ing.

[Forward Union]

People First!

[Forward Union]

...

[Forward Union]

MakeCapitalismHistory

We are going to have to re-do this one cos some plonker mixed to much water in with the paint and made it blur :P (not me of course)

We were making it on behalf of the ISR! (Internatioanl Socialist Resistance)

[Forward Union]

I made this!!!! though, its not finished yet.

[Klipper]

very cool! i wih i could be there to help you all out with the G8 bullshit!

nice looking flag... i'm making an anarcho-syndicalist flag today, too, hehe!

best of luck with the protest! stop at nothing!

[Clarksist]

Did you say liberals are fighting against neo-liberalism?

I like the sign with the Earth and it being "not for sale". Continue ever onward comrade.

[Anarchist Freedom]

Good luck my friend.

[Organic Revolution]

good luck and duck the cops

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 10:07 PM
Did you say liberals are fighting against neo-liberalism?

Yes, they hate all the effects of capitalism and everything it stands for, but don't seem to mind capitalism as a system :P

[resisting arrest with violence]

All these banners and things will do a lot to defend yourself from the cops' brutal actions. What I want to know is: are you ready to defend yourself from the pigs?

[h&s]

We were making it on behalf of the ISR! (Internatioanl Socialist Resistance)
Thanks in advance!
Though why are we getting other people to make our banners for us? :unsure:

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by resisting arrest with [email protected] 18 2005, 01:55 PM
are you ready to defend yourself from the pigs?
Hmm well I, personally am probably going to be more involved in creating awareness for leftist causes at the MakePovertyHistory marches on July 2nd. In fact, that may be the only day I am there. So its not likely there will be any police involvement.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by h&[email protected] 18 2005, 02:27 PM
Though why are we getting other people to make our banners for us? :unsure:
Well, the local branch of the socialist party couldn't attend this particular workshop, Im heavily involved with them, but don't agree with them enough to actually join.

I will probably be on the ISR coach up to scotland for the day on 2nd july.

[Klipper]

being the crazy militant fuck that i am, if i were to go to a protest, i would come dressed in riot control gear... or at least the upper-body piece, a gas mask, and a metal pipe. i say: if you aren't doing anything wrong, and a cop decides to show you some love through their baton, RETURN THE LOVE! also, help your comrades return the love... the more the marrier!

bunch of riot gear: http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?Page...TS&Category=324 (http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=324)
upper-body piece: http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?Page...PROD&ProdID=175 (http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=175)
just thinking about using one of these gets me hot!: http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?Page...TS&Category=325 (http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=325)
good, inexpensive gas mask: http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/sge150.htm

[American_Trotskyist]

Hey when is the G8 meeting? I will be in London at that time and I would like to help

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 06:15 PM
Hey when is the G8 meeting? I will be in London at that time and I would like to help
6-8th july.


What can you do to help?? loads comrade! I think the WOMBELS (http://www.wombles.org.uk/) are based in london, see if theres anything planned.

(please ignore speeling mistakes, I have bad sunstroke at the moment)

[Enragé]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 04:44 PM
being the crazy militant fuck that i am, if i were to go to a protest, i would come dressed in riot control gear... or at least the upper-body piece, a gas mask, and a metal pipe. i say: if you aren't doing anything wrong, and a cop decides to show you some love through their baton, RETURN THE LOVE! also, help your comrades return the love... the more the marrier!

bunch of riot gear: http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?Page...TS&Category=324 (http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=324)
upper-body piece: http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?Page...PROD&ProdID=175 (http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=175)
just thinking about using one of these gets me hot!: http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?Page...TS&Category=325 (http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=325)
good, inexpensive gas mask: http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/sge150.htm
ahh come on! BE A MAN...go un-armoured :lol:

and well...great...great way to show the world you want something different...by having the same outfit as the oppressors <_<

[spartafc]

We were making it on behalf of the ISR&#33; (Internatioanl Socialist Resistance)

oo - I wonder if I&#39;ll see the finished one on the demo.
I&#39;m actually doing some banner making tomorrow.

[bolshevik butcher]

Nice, we need to show that we&#39;re not part of make poverty history.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 19 2005, 07:18 PM
Nice, we need to show that we&#39;re not part of make poverty history.
Well, that&#39;s what&#39;s being planned on the 2nd. There&#39;s a MakePovertyHistory march, that many groups are going to attend; to try and turn it into a MakeCapitalismHistory march. There will be pathetic Geldofists, Christians and Liberals on this march. We plan to smash their happy clappy, imaginary, play world, and teach them that begging the government to throw millions into a system designed, to exploit the poor, won&#39;t make poverty history.

[pedro san pedro]

not to criticize - but your banners will have much neater lettering if you do the design on a computer (you can download whatever fonts you need), print it onto clear plastic stuff and project it onto your banner (attached to a wall) using an overhead projector (which you just borrowed from your local activist centre).

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by pedro san [email protected] 22 2005, 07:57 AM
not to criticize - but your banners will have much neater lettering if you do the design on a computer (you can download whatever fonts you need), print it onto clear plastic stuff and project it onto your banner (attached to a wall) using an overhead projector (which you just borrowed from your local activist centre).
Yea that&#39;s what we done for a Socialist party banner once. And when we go to remake the MakeCapitalismHistory one we will use stencils and spray&#33;

and don&#39;t hesitate to criticise&#33; if people don&#39;t criticise themselves and accept criticism from others then they have trouble improving themselves. But fuck you&#33; :P

[Donnie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 04:44 PM
being the crazy militant fuck that i am, if i were to go to a protest, i would come dressed in riot control gear... or at least the upper-body piece, a gas mask, and a metal pipe. i say: if you aren&#39;t doing anything wrong, and a cop decides to show you some love through their baton, RETURN THE LOVE&#33; also, help your comrades return the love... the more the marrier&#33;

bunch of riot gear: http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?Page...TS&Category=324 (http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=324)
upper-body piece: http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?Page...PROD&ProdID=175 (http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=175)
just thinking about using one of these gets me hot&#33;: http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?Page...TS&Category=325 (http://www.tacticalshop.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=325)
good, inexpensive gas mask: http://www.approvedgasmasks.com/sge150.htm
I&#39;m going up with a group on a minibus on the 2nd July. I havn&#39;t even got round to making my self a an Anarcho-Sydaclist flag infact i will only have one day to make a few flags.

Also i can&#39;t find a gas mask so im having to use a t-shit to disgiuse my face. Although when a make the T-shirt into like a black mask i look like a ninja rofl.

I will also have to by some goggles from some DIY store so if their is Tear gas thrown i&#39;ll be okky doocky.

I will also have to carry a bottle of water for me so that if they do throw tear gas i can wet my ninja mask so i can breath.

I would get a gas mask on the net, i don&#39;t have a debit card (don&#39;t believe in them) and also my dad&#39;s won&#39;t give his credit details on the net, also with what money we have (btw which isn&#39;t alot) we can go freaky with money. :(

I can&#39;t wait to get up there though.

[Noah]

Hey guys,

I wanna get involved in G8, Im 14 and will go with or without my mates, I dont care unless im there for the cause. Do you know any organistation taking people from manchester to Edinburugh and how long they will be ther ect. Or even a website or anything that can get my involved in an organisation for G8 in Manchester.

[Donnie]

Go to this site Noah www.dissent.org.uk, it tells you eveything about the G8 summit.
It also has local group contacts who are going up to the G8 summit. I deffinetly know there is a Manchester one. I&#39;m getting a hitch from Leeds. But if you get the contact number off that site for you&#39;re local group you should get a response although hurry&#33;&#33;&#33;

[symtoms_of_humanity]

Any one know how to make some good DIY riot armour, even just a chest plate or anything, or a good DIY site to tell me how, I plan on trying to start a protest against the G8 here, so I need to go prepared

[violencia.Proletariat]

the make poverty history march, is that involved with that live8 bullshit?

[Donnie]

Most likely, when is the make poverty history protest on? 3rd or 4th?

I&#39;m looking forward to the beacons of light thing in Gleneagles, that should be cool.

[Organic Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 01:31 AM
I will also have to carry a bottle of water for me so that if they do throw tear gas i can wet my ninja mask so i can breath.
.
that doent work... you need to soak a bandana in vinigar and lemon. water wil just trap the gas.

[Donnie]

Thanks rise up, I&#39;ll take that on board.

Hey do you soak it in vinger at the time when they trow the tear gas or do you soak it in viniger and lemon before you go on the demo?

[BOZG]

You&#39;d be better off soaking it early and keeping it soaked. That way you&#39;ll get accustomed to inhaling the vinegar and lemon too. Waiting til the gas is thrown would take too long to prepare and you&#39;d probably inhale some.

[Donnie]

Cool, It you have been tear gassed in protest? If so whats it like, i need to be prepared.
What does Tear Gas do actually?

[Organic Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 12:31 PM
Cool, It you have been tear gassed in protest? If so whats it like, i need to be prepared.
What does Tear Gas do actually?
you soak it days before the action.... i have been tear gassed, with out a mask or anything... it is terrible... your eyes burn for about 45 minuites.

[violencia.Proletariat]

heh get a gask mask, isnt it illegal to cover your face during protests over there or something though?

[Donnie]

Urgh, I&#39;ll definitely so my rag in vinegar then.

Does anyone know what the weather will be like up there? The reason why I ask is because I had to by a "mummy" sleeping bag today and the sleeping bags quiet insulated and so if its hot up in Scotland I&#39;m going to have to put up with a thick sleeping bag, although if its raining or a little bit chilly at night I should be ok. The sleeping bag cost me £20&#33;&#33;&#33; It was bloody rip off, but it was the cheapest one I could find that was suitable. The shop must think I&#39;m made of money&#33; I saw sleeping bags for £159 and I was like wtf?

Do you recon any of the people at the convergence zones will be selling gas masks? Because if not I&#39;m going have to use the t-shirt to do the ninja thing <_<

Anyway thanks for the vinegar and lemon tip I definitely bring some up with me.

[Organic Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2005, 01:31 PM
Urgh, I&#39;ll definitely so my rag in vinegar then.

Does anyone know what the weather will be like up there? The reason why I ask is because I had to by a "mummy" sleeping bag today and the sleeping bags quiet insulated and so if its hot up in Scotland I&#39;m going to have to put up with a thick sleeping bag, although if its raining or a little bit chilly at night I should be ok. The sleeping bag cost me £20&#33;&#33;&#33; It was bloody rip off, but it was the cheapest one I could find that was suitable. The shop must think I&#39;m made of money&#33; I saw sleeping bags for £159 and I was like wtf?

Do you recon any of the people at the convergence zones will be selling gas masks? Because if not I&#39;m going have to use the t-shirt to do the ninja thing <_<

Anyway thanks for the vinegar and lemon tip I definitely bring some up with me.
im highly doubting that they will be selling gas masks... but you could ask people if they have extras

[Donnie]

Is anyone bringing up food with them to the G8 summit? I&#39;ve read on the site that there are going to be kitchens set up, but I thought I may bring some food up as well just to contribute.

Is anyone else doing the same?

[Organic Revolution]

bring canned food so if you blockade and haveno where to eat you can eat that.

[The Feral Underclass]

Im here in Stirling and a little drunk. I have some super noodles though and my tent.

[bunk]

Originally posted by The Anarchist [email protected] 1 2005, 09:50 PM
Im here in Stirling and a little drunk. I have some super noodles though and my tent.
When are you going to start blockade/disruption?

[Organic Revolution]

how are you on the internet from your tent?

[Patchy]

Just curious, I&#39;ve seen the MakePovertyHistory march called down here, wondering whats up with that. From a socialist point of view, I think it is a very good cause. Not like the money would be put to good use here, our roads still suck, and our buildings are still beat down. Nothing new there.

And if Africa gets on its feet, it would be a major contributor to a socialist planet. They&#39;ve got the resources, they just need to learn what to do with them.

[Phalanx]

This is true, but realize that the G8 is the very reason Africa is in desparate poverty. I can&#39;t find anyway that they shouldn&#39;t make poverty history, but the rulers of the western World are very selfish human beings. Is it so hard to triple, even quadruple your aid to African countries? It&#39;s the least that the Western World could possibly do for corrupting and ravaging an entire continent for the sake of their own greed. Even so, the lower class in the G8 would be suffering the most, as they would give the highest percentage to the aid, while the rich would give a WHOLE 1% of their income. :angry:

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 05:10 AM
And if Africa gets on its feet, it would be a major contributor to a socialist planet. They&#39;ve got the resources, they just need to learn what to do with them.
Capitalism = Poverty. You can&#39;t get rid of poverty unless you get rid of capitalism.

The MakePovertyHistory march is largely a crappy christian do-gooder cause that is largely useless.

Nothing will come of it, and if it does, I&#39;ll eat my hat.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by Chinghis [email protected] 5 2005, 11:24 PM
the G8 is the very reason Africa is in desparate poverty.
Well, corporations had a lot to do with it, and also the fact that market principals weren&#39;t in favour of the "poor black savages"

The thing to remember is capitalism is the cause of this poverty. And you can&#39;t solve a problem with the mechanism that created it. It&#39;s like trying to rebuild a house with a wrecking ball.

[cubalibra]

May the spirit of Che be with you all.

[Faceless]

So I´m back from gleneagles and know i will give my 2 cents on the events since the MPH


MPH had a lot of liberal, church going folk. many were middle class and just wanted to cleanse their conscience. it was a little disappointing but nevertheless the sight was spectacular

The G8 Alternatives was dire&#33; Even worse than MPH&#33; I mean, i expected the mph thing to be bad but not alternatives&#33; This speaker comes up and tells us, first off, "we dont have all the answers, we don´t even have all the questions." And I´m thinking, you give yourself this platform here with the responsibility of advancing the political vanguard and you dont even have all the questions?&#33; Well, worse was to follow. A lady speaker tells us "I represent the Red wing of the movements and we have things to learn from the green wing in our rainbow coallition". I mean what greens are we talking about here?&#33; I hear there is a green nationalist socialist party in america. Do we mean them? what greens exactly, and what exactly do reds have to learn from the greens? Then the same SSP speaker tells us that the first thing that she would do would be to split scotland from imperialist britain and then call for english working class solidarity. Aye, she´ll bloody well need an english revolution, nevermind solidarity in this country of 5 million. then, if they get an english revolution, you have to ask yourself why break with britain in the first place?&#33; All that breaking brtain could do is to break the working class bonds in place without effecting TNCs which are by there very definition trans-national. But then what will happen? The SSP will then bring north sea oil under state control and start a "debate"&#33; a debate on nationalisation is not worker´s control and is certainly not socialism. But dont worry because "not one drop of coca-cola will be drunk in scotland". OK, how progressive a step is that towards socialism?&#33; I myself joined the coke boycott but realise that it is not itself any more than an act of solidarity. It is certainly not the first step towards socialism&#33; Worse yet, the SSP will not use draconian measures to stop coke, which would be "undemocratic" but will hire bill-board spacing to propagandise against coca-cola. By now I thought this was a monty python sketch. I suppose I have too little respect for the democratic rights of multinationals to trade.
Socialism was mentioned but once by these "socialists", the job of the alternatives should have been to raise the level of discussion to one which held capitalism itself to account. In fact the consciousness and the talk in the british anti-war, anti-globalisation movement has gone if anywhere backwards since the demos against the war in iraq.


Then there was todays rioting. In essence, it achieved nothing. Sorry, they did achieve one thing, they alienated many working class comrades I have heard from. Rome was not sacked in a day a piece of graffiti read. Try telling the anarchists and the clown army that. To be honest mind you, ive become quite fond of the clowns. What came out of it for us was that we gathered contacts, made organisational links and made money. But in some, and I think some of you need to make a tactical reassessment, we have not advanced beyond seattle.

[Faceless]

And if Africa gets on its feet, it would be a major contributor to a socialist planet. They&#39;ve got the resources, they just need to learn what to do with them.

I hope that was a joke made in bad taste. It is not as if africa doesnt know what to do with its resources. Namely, sell them off cheap to pay the lenders back their money. The western capitalists and there puppets are enforcing this misery. Get a grip patchy.

[Guest]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 11:23 PM

And if Africa gets on its feet, it would be a major contributor to a socialist planet. They&#39;ve got the resources, they just need to learn what to do with them.

I hope that was a joke made in bad taste. It is not as if africa doesnt know what to do with its resources. Namely, sell them off cheap to pay the lenders back their money. The western capitalists and there puppets are enforcing this misery. Get a grip patchy.
Without capitalism, africa would still have these resources, they wouldn&#39;y simply vanish. And with capitalism gone, replaced by a more just system, more and more africans would be able to work and produce, to do what they want and not have to worry about the next meal. This is a really far off possibility, but thats the way I think.

I can see where you think I may have been trying to poke fun at them, but that was not the intention, the wording was just incorrect. I did make it look like they had no clue what they were doing, what I meant was that without having to pay back the capitalists, they would be able to do so much more.

[Patchy]

Aaaaaaaand I forgot to sign in, that was me who said that.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by rise [email protected] 1 2005, 11:41 PM
how are you on the internet from your tent?
I didn&#39;t say I was in it did I&#33;?

Faceless, your article is bollocks.

[Faceless]

woah, explain what part was bollocks. the day is over and the level of debate was not raised in any way. are we closer to revolution?

I apologise, I should have been more specific on the anarchists im moaning at. ya basta and the wombbles plus that guy who smashed in a car windscreen, when there was someone in it.

They were pulling up the plants in prince&#39;s street for christ&#39;s sake to throw at the pigs&#33; you telling me this will draw the masses to their cause?&#33;

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 04:23 PM
the day is over and the level of debate was not raised in any way. are we closer to revolution?
You had nothing to do with the Anarchist convergence space, so you wouldn&#39;t have a clue what debate there was.

For your information the level of debate was immense/


are we closer to revolution?

Was that ever the point?

[Faceless]

for fuck&#39;s sake TAT, I was criticising the level of debate in those who are active in the G8 alternatives and the labour movement, which was low, and also the actions of a few anarchists, not your little dissent thing, I never even mentioned that&#33;

btw, your speed in replying to me is second to none

[YKTMX]

Question: TAT, in your estimation, what was the age, racial, class, educational background of the "Anarchist contigent"? Obviously you can&#39;t give the complete picture but a general idea?

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 04:23 PM
ya basta and the wombbles plus that guy who smashed in a car windscreen, when there was someone in it.
What did Ya Basta or the Wombles do that you critcise so much.

I have nothing to say about one indvidual who smashed a car windscreen. But just so it&#39;s made clear, there were locals involved in some of the violence.


They were pulling up the plants in prince&#39;s street for christ&#39;s sake to throw at the pigs&#33; you telling me this will draw the masses to their cause?&#33;

Fighting the police isnt about convincing the "masses" of a "cause." It&#39;s about resisting state repression. I don&#39;t understand why everything activists do must reflect the sensabilities of the "masses."

We are under constant and violent bombardment from capitalism and the state on daily basis and we have the right to resist it with violence. It is an act of self-defence and we don&#39;t need approval from people in order to maintain that.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 04:32 PM
Question: TAT, in your estimation, what was the age, racial, class, educational background of the "Anarchist contigent"? Obviously you can&#39;t give the complete picture but a general idea?
The median age was around 25 - 30, the majority of people were white, most people I was around were post-graduates or PhD students. I would say that the majority of people I was around had at least one degree or had finished high school.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 04:31 PM
for fuck&#39;s sake TAT, I was criticising the level of debate in those who are active in the G8 alternatives and the labour movement, which was low, and also the actions of a few anarchists, not your little dissent thing, I never even mentioned that&#33;

btw, your speed in replying to me is second to none
My little dissent thing? You mean the co-operation of over 3.000 anarchists from all over the world from different affinity groups.

If you were talking about something I had nothing to do with, why mention it in a post directed to me.

[Faceless]

I am aware that there were locals involved. I am also aware that a lot of these so called "anarchists" were just acting in self-defence. I am aware of the implications of the fact that locals got involved. It implies a collective feeling of being under seige, of having being violated. Yet the realist in me will not hail the act as one of liberation any more than the Luddites who smashed their machines. It may have been brave, and glorious but I dont give a fuck.

I am also aware that many people who turned up for this great act of "self-defence", whilst I respect your "right" to do so, will find that they are still under bombardment from capitalism. Your grand resistance against state repression in a little corner of scotland has brought me no closer to freedom. Indeed, ask anyone in Edinburgh if they feel safer thanks to this little spate of violence and they will say no, unless they have problems in the head.

Your disrespect for the masses as instrumental in any real change reflects the real problem in your attitude. The working class are irrelevant to you, and they make efforts to disassociate yourself from you. I advise you to talk to some of them, you may find it enlightening.

[Faceless]

My little dissent thing? You mean the co-operation of over 3.000 anarchists from all over the world from different affinity groups.

If you were talking about something I had nothing to do with, why mention it in a post directed to me.
Are you the centre of this forum about which we all rotate? Am I really forbidden to try to shed light on the G8 alternatives? That "bollocks" articles was for the benefit of anyone who cared, not just you.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 04:47 PM
Yet the realist in me will not hail the act as one of liberation any more than the Luddites who smashed their machines.
It wasn&#39;t an act of liberation. It was an active response to state and capitalist repression.


It may have been brave, and glorious but I dont give a fuck.

There was nothing glorious about violence and whether you think it brave is inconsequential. I would say, yes it is brave to activley resist the repression of the state, but that&#39;s besides the point.

The G8 created a window of opportunity for us to create defiance as activists, and we met that with direct confronation with the tools of the state.


I am also aware that many people who turned up for this great act of "self-defence", whilst I respect your "right" to do so, will find that they are still under bombardment from capitalism. Your grand resistance against state repression in a little corner of scotland has brought me no closer to freedom.

Modes of direct action within communities have been discussed and some have begun and hopefully in the post-G8 atmosphere the Dissent network can be used to build confrontation within the workplace and mportantly the community.

All this, however, is besides the point. The G8 was an arena for obvious struggle. It was not a call to bring about mass class consciousness. Activists united to resist capitalism and the tools of the state and that is what they did.


Indeed, ask anyone in Edinburgh if they feel safer thanks to this little spate of violence and they will say no, unless they have problems in the head.

Yes of coruse. Anyone who advocates violent resistance to the state is insane. :rolleyes:

The people in Edinburgh may have felt terrible about what had happened, in fact reading some of the indymedia comments by residence of Edinburgh it is pretty save to assume that they think precisley what they are forced to believe about us.

The Scottish press, including the radio, distorted facts and in some cases lied. Not surprisingly. THe bourgeois press will always lie about us. What are we supposed to do about that? We cannot control the tools used to undermine us, we can only fight them.


Your disrespect for the masses as instrumental in any real change reflects the real problem in your attitude. The working class are irrelevant to you, and they make efforts to disassociate yourself from you.

First of all, fuck you&#33;

Secondly, I don&#39;t, nor does anyone else I was with think the workers are irrelevant, but that does not mean we should stop resisting the state simply because they may not understand it.

"They" are not children. Unfortunatly the media they read lies to them and distorts what they think. We cannot moderate our actions to accomodate lies about us.

Within the immediate aftermath of these actions, it is going to be obvious that people will disassociate themselves with us, but to be honest, these people are patronising stodgy marxist fucks, so who gives a shit.

The workers aren&#39;t associated with us in the first place, or with the marxists for that matter. They do however respond to our anti-authoritarian politics and organisation within communities. That is obvious from the Social Centres around the country.

These actions will get bigger and be far wider stretching. Communities will become the new arenas of struggle.


I advise you to talk to some of them, you may find it enlightening.

What, like you? Give me a break.

We had actions within the local communities and they responded very well to us. We also invited them to the convergence space to see and meet everyone and find out what is happening. The response was encouraging.

Further, this is precisley my point about patronising. You don&#39;t know what you&#39;re talking about or what and who we are. You just latch on to the bourgeois media band wagon and then call it "workerism."

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by Faceless+Jul 10 2005, 04:49 PM--> (Faceless @ Jul 10 2005, 04:49 PM)
My little dissent thing? You mean the co-operation of over 3.000 anarchists from all over the world from different affinity groups.

If you were talking about something I had nothing to do with, why mention it in a post directed to me.
Are you the centre of this forum about which we all rotate? Am I really forbidden to try to shed light on the G8 alternatives? That "bollocks" articles was for the benefit of anyone who cared, not just you. [/b]
I&#39;m not talking about your article, I&#39;m refering to this:


Faceless
woah, explain what part was bollocks. the day is over and the level of debate was not raised in any way. are we closer to revolution?

[YKTMX]

The workers aren&#39;t associated with us in the first place, or with the marxists for that matter.

I&#39;d have to dispute that. Our parties definetly "suffer" from an over representation of the middle classes but we still have more and better links to the class than the anarchist groups, in the unions for instance. And, of course, across the world, we&#39;re much stronger.

Not that this is a competition :unsure:

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 05:23 PM

The workers aren&#39;t associated with us in the first place, or with the marxists for that matter.

I&#39;d have to dispute that. Our parties definetly "suffer" from an over representation of the middle classes but we still have more and better links to the class than the anarchist groups, in the unions for instance. And, of course, across the world, we&#39;re much stronger.
In terms of reformism possibly.

[YKTMX]

No, I was referring to socialists/Marxists.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 05:36 PM
No, I was referring to socialists/Marxists.
There are barely no revolutionary marxist links to the working class anymore.

[YKTMX]

In fact, as far as the Unions go, those to the left of the LP haven&#39;t stronger in ages (Bob Crow, Hayes, Woodley, Serwotka, The new FBU guy). And across Europe, those on the left of the old social democratic parties are getting it together. The French Far left are looking stronger, Rifondazione, the Portugese Left Block, the new party in Germany.

Not to mention the goings on elsewhere.

You&#39;re far too gloomy TAT ;)

[Faceless]

I&#39;m not talking about your article, I&#39;m refering to this:

TAT, like it or not, you said my article was bollocks when in it I made no slur against dissent or whatever. And I am talking about the level of debate within working class organisation which, as X said, the marxists are much better represented than the anarchists. You say, "in terms of reformism possibly" but the organisation of the working class is the real gain, not the reforms won. "Reformism" is indeed meaningless as every reform won is won through the very real spectre of revolution facing the bourgeoisie. The organisation is what is important about the unions.

I&#39;m sorry if I over-generalised about the level of debate, but I have only ever been talking about G8 alternatives.