Class struggle, and prejudice...

['Discourse Unlimited']

I think fantasy writing is superb, in terms of 'entertainment provided'. Not only that, but it can be used as a tool with which to analyse and dissect 'society'! Or, at least, we can ask interesting questions. :)

For example - why is the focus almost exclusively on Kings, Queens, Lords and Ladies? The only 'peasant' or 'worker' that ever makes an appearance is the token blacksmith (who usually dies, tragically)!

Why are 'humans' almost always portrayed as being superior to their mythical counterparts? Elves, Dwarves, Ogres - when they feature, are all 'primitive', or 'barbarian'...

Why is there no concept of the individual in the 'evil' side (you know - the Goblin "horde", the Orcish "band", the "invaders" etc.)?

Why is the 'evil' side never comprised of humans?

I want answers! :D

[Severian]

'Perdido Street Station" or "the Iron Council" by China Mieville reverses all that.

['Discourse Unlimited']

I've not read them, nor have I heard of the author... Worth a look?

[Severian]

Mieville's very good. Awards and all that. Those books are set in a sort of fantasy modern London, or so it seems to me.

Anyway, I blame Tolkien for the general problem. All those inherently evil races which must be exterminated by the great and noble kings. Almost all the medieval fantasy in that tradition tends to take up a medieval social outlook. And most science fiction projects current social relations into the future.

I agree fantastic literature - which includes science fiction - can have a progressive political role. Make it easier to imagine a different society.

There's a few other authors who do that, like Ken McLeod, Iaian Banks nowadays...or Jack London, once upon a time.

['Discourse Unlimited']

Anyway, I blame Tolkien for the general problem.


Too right! :D (I always felt a little sorry for the Orcs...)

One of my favourite authors is Ursula K. Le Guin. She's written some superb fantasy and science-fiction novels, and avoids most of the hideous stereotypes that usually infect those genres.

[workersunity]

tolkien rules you know why because its fantasy, yes it would be nice to have some books done the other way, but they are good because its fantasy, its FAKE

[Clarksist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 10:51 PM
tolkien rules you know why because its fantasy, yes it would be nice to have some books done the other way, but they are good because its fantasy, its FAKE
Tolkien did not create a fantasy, he created a completely fluent WORLD. It is amazing the effort and amount of thought he put into that entire story.

Tolkien is truly to literature what color film is to modern cinema.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 04:51 PM
tolkien rules you know why because its fantasy, yes it would be nice to have some books done the other way, but they are good because its fantasy, its FAKE
Oh, I love Tokien too. It's great literature despite its flaws. A worthy successor to "Beowulf".

The same can't be said for Tolkien's many imitators...

[redstar2000]

The world of fantasy is socially orderly...a pretty accurate reflection of medieval and pre-medieval ideals. Rebellious behavior by the "lower orders" rarely occurs and is regarded as almost blasphemous when it does.

The popularity of this genre among the middle classes today is certainly understandable; many of them have never been reconciled to a world in which no one "knows his place". How pleasant it must be to retreat into "worlds" in which people did have assigned status and accepted that -- at least in theory.

In this connection, note also a whole wave of mystery novels set in the Middle Ages...with largely the same outlook.

Needless to say, there's little resemblance between these novels and what those periods of history were really like.

I don't know if The Lord of the Rings will still be read a century or two from now...but I agree with Severian that it's far superior to the dreary imitations -- which seem to match Tolkien only in word-count.

He certainly was a very curious fellow...with one foot firmly planted in pre-Christian Northern Europe and the other just as firmly planted in Catholic orthodoxy. If it hasn't already happened, some literary academics are going to have a lot of fun tracing those elements in The Lord of the Rings. :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

In the Warhammer universe at least, humans can be either good or evil, (Chaos is a popular path for human badguys - well, human until they ascend to daemonhood, but I digress) Elves, while nominally noble creatures, can be arrogent and self-centered while a population of Elves turned to Khaine worship and became cruel and heartless Dark Elves, Lizardmen are somewhat neutral and the Skaven (ratmen), Chaos Warriors, Daemons are products of Chaos. And you have the Undead.

['Discourse Unlimited']

Tolkien did not create a fantasy, he created a completely fluent WORLD.


That much is true.



The popularity of this genre among the middle classes today is certainly understandable; many of them have never been reconciled to a world in which no one "knows his place". How pleasant it must be to retreat into "worlds" in which people did have assigned status and accepted that -- at least in theory.


Interesting - your take on why people read fantasy, that is... I read such books because I want to escape from a world fraught with injustice, terror and the most terrible monotony imaginable - into a world in which "anything is possible", truly; not only that, but I can make the world my own with remarkable ease! :P

Why does anyone else here read fantasy literature?