depression and revolution

[Organic Revolution]

after and during the revolution., how will the issue of mental health be handled. i know in the anarchist movment there are mental health collectives, but will it be handled the same way?

[violencia.Proletariat]

that is a good question, there would also have to be collectives for mentally disabled

[encephalon]

Honestly, I think most mental health problems, at least regarding the widespread depression, are due largely to alienation; I think that's why we've seen such an exponential increase in it the more capitalism progresses. However, alienation isn't likely to suddenly go away right after a revolution, as it would take time, and so too would depression remain caused by said alienation. So yeah, I would say there would have to still be collectives of some sort, plus depression is far from the only mental health issue. Some of them aren't going to go away, and have nothing to do with alienation.

[Organic Revolution]

i understand that there are several more mental diseases than depression i just was easily grouping them. im not sure about mentaly ill people, but the people who "take care" of them can still care ofthem, i guess

[Clarksist]

There isn't a quick answer. Mainly because post-revolution there will still by sociopaths who have a disconnect with human life and who will still murder for the "fun" of it. You get a mix of pyschosis and brutality which, unlike Anarchists say, won't just "dissapear" with the social circumstances. To help this medication may have to be given out with any form of chemical depression.

As with conditional depression, that could do with a failed marraige or a lost child... NOTHING to do with capitalism in some cases. So with those revolution could not help.

[Kristatos]

In modern society, people suffering from manic depression (schizophrenics, etc) often turn to places like the "Church" of Scientology. With a proper health care controlled by the needs of society, suicides related to mistreatment will definitely cease. Also, many domestic violence issues are triggered by a failing family economy.

As for what should be done with likely dangers to society (psychopats), that's something I would have to leave to someone with more expertise on the subject. Psychopats can never be cured.

[Raisa]

What does scientology have to do with it?

[Kristatos]

the CoS is an extreme example on what happens when you let privately owned corporations take care of the mentally ill. The more desperate the patients are, the less likely they are to get any real help at all, even though they give all their money, take up loans and sometimes sell most of their posessions. It's not uncommon for them to commit suicide because of their deteriorating contidion, when they realise that they're never getting real help.

I realise that the point in the previous reply wasn't brought forward well enough, and that some of you might not know that much about the CoS. This is a good anti-CoS archive site, if anyone's interested: http://www.xenu.net

I was by no means suggesting that scientology would be the solution after a revolution, I'm sorry if I gave that impression. A revolution would get rid of this cynical exploitation of the needy, and that's why I think it would be beneficial to many.

[OleMarxco]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 11:14 PM
Sociopaths have a disconnect with human life and will still murder for the "fun" of it.
Yeah, but they'd be a KILLER-for teh revolution, that is! We must definately "hire" them for free - i.e. recruit'em...under strict control by volunteers, of course. I suppose'rat's not a contradiction, me hopesth... ;)

[Organic Revolution]

strict control?? didnt you say you were an anarchist

[JonnyT]

A large number of mental health issues arise from our environment, both physical and social. Rising levels of pollution have been shown to be linked to the development of certain psychological disorders; others can be traced to lack of essential nutrients in our diet, something which is an increasing side-effect of the supermarket industry. The effect of chemical tampering with food in almost every sector remains to be seen.

Our social environment, the other main contributory factor, is defined by capitalism. The breakdown in community relations and consequent alienation from a very early age leaves many feeling isolated, a potential trigger for sociopathy. Life in an urban environment has been demonstrated to offer a heightened risk of developing schitzophrenia. Mood disorders and other mental issues, such as anorexia and self-injury, are often linked to unachievable goals demanded by advertising and the social standards that result from it.

So in short, a lot of mental illness would no longer be an issue in a (successful) anarchist society.

For those issues that remain (and there would be some), the approach taken by certain anarchist mental health collectives seems most appealing to me. A mental health system taking into account all those affected - the individual, those giving treatment, and the wider community - would offer a much more long-lasting and respectful form of treatment than simply pumping people full of whatever drug hasn't been found harmful this week.

- Jonathan.

[Kristatos]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 04:53 PM
...simply pumping people full of whatever drug hasn't been found harmful this week.
But you do realise that many of these drugs are quite necessary, yes/no? My uncle is a paranoid schizophrenic, and even though it bothers me that the drugs weaken his mind in the long run, it's better than him being pushed to suicide by angry demons. But I agree with you, treatment should always be for the best of each individual who recieves it, not whichever corporation that dominates the drug market. And as mentioned before, the same thing goes for anti-drug "organizations" like the "church" of scientology of course, which benefits more than anyone on human grief.

[Vallegrande]

I think the mental health problems are a related to deeper source that we hardly hear about. Health and what we began eating since the 1900's industrial period. Proctor and Gamble came out with trans fat, noting that it had a smooth quality, and had a long shelf life. People started using this ever since so its no wonder we have all these problems now.

We have been intaking trans fats and other ingredients that we had no idea about for generations. Look what it brought, physical and mental diseases (obesity, diabetes, schizophrenia, etc.). Compound that with the environmental impact from industrialism, its a major source for developing these problems.

I am convinced that the health industry has been planning this for citizens to ingest these toxic substances into the body, and then turn around and create the drug that would help them fight off their diseases. Its simple economics to them, when they can convert the diet of millions of people in order put them on drugs to help them, it creates an enormous cash flow to the health industry, in which we now see.

Overall, I think these illnesses are mainly from the wrong fats we have been taking ever since birth. When you grow up with a body full of trans fat its easy fall ill to anything.

[Kristatos]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 05:26 AM
We have been intaking trans fats and other ingredients that we had no idea about for generations. Look what it brought, physical and mental diseases (obesity, diabetes, schizophrenia, etc.). Compound that with the environmental impact from industrialism, its a major source for developing these problems.

I am convinced that the health industry has been planning this for citizens to ingest these toxic substances into the body, and then turn around and create the drug that would help them fight off their diseases. Its simple economics to them, when they can convert the diet of millions of people in order put them on drugs to help them, it creates an enormous cash flow to the health industry, in which we now see.

Overall, I think these illnesses are mainly from the wrong fats we have been taking ever since birth. When you grow up with a body full of trans fat its easy fall ill to anything.
hahahaha

[Vallegrande]

hahahaha

Yeah I know, I always get that when I start going on a rant about this stuff.

[Kristatos]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 06:18 PM

hahahaha

Yeah I know, I always get that when I start going on a rant about this stuff.
Well, I don't think you're completely off, but I'd suspect the corporations that produce unhealthy food for making us want what we don't need, rather than those who produce pharmaceuticals. Also, we don't even know exactly what causes latent schizophrenia, and it was quite possibly just as common in the older days. Besides, I'd rather be a schizophrenic today than before modern society, where they would be burned alive for talking to the devil.

But as you said, obesity and diabetes becoming more common is certainly a result of the capitalist consumer phenomenon.

[Free Spirit]

Do you believe that the food would get any better under communism? The change would be that the extra sugar and fat is added because you like it and not to make you want another of whatever you eat. And the preserving substance used in food to last longer like E503 or E500 whatever the compound really means would not be necessary in the matter of capital, as it is used for making products last longer and means less chance having an economic lost. But as it is a preservation of food it might still be used and continue to poison us. I believe that it might “cost” more to produce more organic food at the same time be necessary to be produced further (more) because the food would not be able to last as long without
E0??0!
Would we really become healthier with our food when capitalism dies?

[Kristatos]

Originally posted by Free [email protected] 23 2005, 02:59 PM
Do you believe that the food would get any better under communism? The change would be that the extra sugar and fat is added because you like it and not to make you want another of whatever you eat. And the preserving substance used in food to last longer like E503 or E500 whatever the compound really means would not be necessary in the matter of capital, as it is used for making products last longer and means less chance having an economic lost. But as it is a preservation of food it might still be used and continue to poison us. I believe that it might “cost” more to produce more organic food at the same time be necessary to be produced further (more) because the food would not be able to last as long without
E0??0!
Would we really become healthier with our food when capitalism dies?
There would certainly be less psuedo-organic food that's labelled "bio-" just because it's grown in earth rather than L. Ron Hubbard's rotting corpse. But I still think there would be a need for artificially preserved food, to meet everyone's need.

[Vallegrande]

So do you think disorders are from a lack of nutrition?

Here's is an example of what im thinking about. In Brazil, the health industry has been prescribing drugs to the people. It has been happening for a while actually--The people are lacking food and come into the hospital looking for help. Instead the hospital officials consider the patients to have mental illnesses, and then prescribe drugs to counterract the mental disorders. So the people are lacking nutrition, but the health officials just say they have mental illnesses. The people are so drugged up, starving, that families began to die. No one cries, because they are drugged up on unknown substances.

There is a book, I haven't read yet, that explains this much better, between the health industry and the people, it's called "Death Without Weeping". And the same thing is happening here. The U.S. has a medical handbook now that the government has issued that categorizes any sort of behavior as a mental illness, and also a drug to counterract that illness. But it's not even a real illness, the doctors are just playing with the patients lives.

[Vallegrande]

But I still think there would be a need for artificially preserved food, to meet everyone's need.

It comes down to harvesting insects, especially grubs. I may start to research this and learn how to do it, because grubs are healthy to eat, and there is always plenty to go around. I say this is a new way to go instead of relying on big animals to live off of.

[Kristatos]

I don't think the revolution should be about forcing people into eating insects ;)

[Vallegrande]

:P Not about forcing, it's inevitable. When we are hungry grubs will look quite tasty.