Is There Any Current Aztlan/Reconquista Action?

[Man of the Century]

Outside of sloganing, has the Chicano Movement achieved any tangible ability to take over lands within the southwestern United States?

There is a philosophical belief that where a majority of like minded hispanic U.S. Citizens live in the U.S. Southwest, Aztlan will be achieved.

I do not support this notion, but believe insted that merely hispanic-Americans, with the general view the U.S. should maintain authority in the region and the existing states be kept in tact, will hold a majority.

Why do so many in the Movement believe that large numbers of hispanics will join Chicano and favor the creation of Aztlan? This has not been made clear to me.

What is the current status of political action (besides college MeCha rallies) tha could challenge federal or state authority in the region?

Do Chicano in the Movement genuinely believe that there could be a successful "land grab" without a U.S. president calling out the army to enforce Art. IV, Sec. 4 of the U.S. Constitution?

[Andy Bowden]

I was wondering about this - is there support for "Aztlan" among Mexican immigrants in the US, or has it just been hyped up by the American right-wing to jusify attacks on immigrants and the tightening of border controls?

[romanm]

MIM supports the liberation of occupied Mexico.

The last major action that I know about is the tierra armarillo incident.

It is the first liberated land.

[Clarksist]

I don't think any movement in the United States is really strong enough to take over any part of the US. Not yet anyway.

But I would say that the growing Latin population in America is a great place to start some conversion.

[coda]

How about the Native American's getting back the US Southwest lands.

[Man of the Century]

romanm worte:

MIM supports the liberation of occupied Mexico.

The last major action that I know about is the tierra armarillo incident.

It is the first liberated land.

This was a court house incident that I am not fully farmiliar with, but I do not see how it created the first "liberated land".

This is the crux of the issue I raise: Many Chicanos believe that by accomplishing a philosophical act, they have created land, or transferred its authority. This is not the question I raise.

Indigo:

I don't know how to answer your point. How could this be achived. There were several groups of American Indians who contolled various lands throughout these areas. Even a whole-scale U.S. destruction/abdication of authority would only lead to continuous fighting for contorl of these lands and/or anarchy. But I do not see how this would logically lead to everyone involved agreeing that "first American" claims would be honored. What authority would be left or exist to dole out the land claims.

Clarksist:

You appear to understand half of my issue. BUT, that begs the question: there is a large U.S.-hispanic population which does not have an interest in Mexican authority over these lands. In short, they are not part of the Chicano movement, and celebrate July 4th these days and not September 16th. Thats another question I have: Merely because the area becomes demographically hispanic, why would that per se mean it would be Chicano?

Thank you all for your interest.

[Clarksist]

Originally posted by Man of the [email protected] 14 2005, 01:34 AM
You appear to understand half of my issue. BUT, that begs the question: there is a large U.S.-hispanic population which does not have an interest in Mexican authority over these lands. In short, they are not part of the Chicano movement, and celebrate July 4th these days and not September 16th. Thats another question I have: Merely because the area becomes demographically hispanic, why would that per se mean it would be Chicano?
Oh, I undoubtedly believe that being Hispanic does not automatically make you one ideology or another. In fact the Hispanic's voting is beginning to sway to a more "red white & blue" stance. Most Hispanics I know don't even give a fuck about closing the border to mexico.

I believe also, however, that Hispanic people would be more resolute in their feelings about injustices to other Hispanics. So to answer your second question, a large Hispanic demographic creates a better chance to incite the feelings and sentiments but that doesn't directly make it Chicano.

[El_Revolucionario]

From the Anti-Defamation League:


Originally posted by ADL

The Nation of Aztlan (NOA), first organized in the early 1990s, is a California-based Hispanic nationalist organization that claims to represent the desires and aspirations of the Hispanic community. The organization calls for the United States to return "Aztlan" territory - Aztlan being the mythic homeland of the Mexican people, or Aztecs, which according to legend is found in the American Southwest or Northern Mexico. The group's nationalist message is blurred by frequent appeals anti-Semitism, anti-Zionism, homophobia and other expressions of hatred.

Please note, I am not making a statement for or against this Aztlan organization, I am merely provided what ADL says about them. Judge for yourself.

[coda]

also a bit perplexed about appellation.


The term, Aztec, is a startlingly imprecise term to describe the culture that dominated the Valley of Mexico in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries. Properly speaking, all the Nahua-speaking peoples in the Valley of Mexico were Aztecs, while the culture that dominated the area was a tribe of the Mexica (pronounced "me-shee-ka") called the Tenochca ("te-noch-ka"). At the time of the European conquest, they called themselves either "Tenochca" or "Toltec ," which was the name assumed by the bearers of the Classic Mesoamerican culture. The earliest we know about the Mexica is that they migrated from the north into the Valley of Mexico as early as the twelfth century AD, well after the close of the Classic Period in Mesoamerica. They were a subject and abject people, forced to live on the worst lands in the valley. They adopted the cultural patterns (called Mixteca-Pueblo) that originated in the culture of Teotihuacán, so the urban culture they built in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries is essentially a continuation of Teotihuacán culture.

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/CIVAMRCA/AZTECS.HTM

[coda]

<<I don&#39;t know how to answer your point. How could this be achived.

Right. I was making a rhetorical statement to show how irrelevant and arrogant any "Atzlan" claim to that land would be.

Borders and territories are fundamentally anti-revolutionary all the way around.

[Andy Bowden]

There are many hispanics which now vote for Bush, and Dubya extensively lobbied for their vote :angry: .

[EneME]

El Revolucionario&#39;s point is a very good point, that although they claim to be for liberation of conquered territories they also promote a lot of hatred. The term "Aztlan" has been misconstrued, while some take that movement in the direction that the ADL mentioned, I have known other "Aztlan" movements that follow a path closer to our own. Some that empower, do not promote hate, and are critical of U&#036; foreign policy. Although these types of group seem to believe they are representing the "Hispanic" community, they are actually not. Living in California all my life, and working with the hispanic community, I can guarantee you that the "Aztlan" movement is solely a priority of second/third/fourth/etc. generation Mexican-Americans. While the majority of Mexicans in the U&#036; are recent immigrants, they are not included in the "Aztlan" movment nor are the priorities of the rest of the Latin American community. This is very much a "Chicano" movement, therefore it is NOT a hispanic movement....

[Paradox]

This is very much a "Chicano" movement, therefore it is NOT a hispanic movement

Exactly. First of all, you have to understand that "Chicano" is a Mexican American term. It is used by Mexicans born in the u&#036;, who are proud of their Indigenous (Mexican Indian) roots, hence "Aztlan." The term "Chicano" after all, comes from the word "Mexica," which is the accurate name of the tribe that built Tenochtitlan in the valley of Mexico (a name which is also, quite clearly, derived from the name "Mexica). Therefore, just because an area is "hispanic," doesn&#39;t mean there will be an Aztlan or Chicano movement. And for the most part, Chicanos REJECT the term "hispanic," as it denies them recognition of their Indigenous roots. An alternate spelling of "Chicano" is "Xicano," which is pronounced "SHEE-ca-no." This is tied to the origins of the term and is used to convey a strong sense of pride in one&#39;s Mexican Indian heritage (without the "born in america" recognition; just the Indigenous cultural recognition).


Although these types of group seem to believe they are representing the "Hispanic" community, they are actually not.

I can&#39;t say that I&#39;ve ever known any Chicanos who thought they were "representing the &#39;hispanic&#39; community," but that does sound pretty ridiculous, because as you pointed out, the group labeled as "hispanic" <_< , includes more than just Mexicans/Mexican Americans. And on top of that, acceptance of the label "hispanic" by a Chicano would make me rather suspicious. But anyways, the Chicano Movement is pretty much just a Mexican American, as in born in the u&#036; of Mexican descent, kind of movement. Because even Mexicans who migrate here, 1st generation migrants, and Mexicans in Mexico, don&#39;t like the term "Chicano."

[romanm]

In one communique many years ago the PDRP-EPR (a group formed, in part, from the PROCUP)raised the issue of socialist reunification of Mexico. So, it isn&#39;t just aChicano issue. It is a Mexican issue. It is also an issue that all revolutionaries DO support.

Mexico desparately needs a strong Maoist movement.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 01:39 PM
The term "Aztlan" has been misconstrued, while some take that movement in the direction that the ADL mentioned, I have known other "Aztlan" movements that follow a path closer to our own. Some that empower, do not promote hate, and are critical of U&#036; foreign policy.
Y&#39;know, I once met a MEChA person who had a very Farrakhan-like approach. (Movimiento Estudantil Chicano de Aztlan, Chicano Student Movement of Aztlan.)

This was at a national immmigrant&#39;s rights demo in DC. She was saying "All pilgrims (white people) out of Aztlan." Which is a heck of a thing to say at an immigrants&#39; rights action - we were here first, everyone else get out&#33;

I&#39;m not saying this is representative of all MEChA people, I have no idea how common this is.

[Man of the Century]

One of the weirder things about the mythology/history/legend of Aztland is that there is no evidence that Aztecs dwelt in the southwestern United States. It&#39;s a near religious belief more than a view based upon fact.

Very little in known about the Medieval Aztecs during their pre-Lake Texcoco times.

It is ironic that they argue this land is theres, as if it is, than all of Mexico north of Mexico City is also Aztlan, and they should have just a serious an attitude about kicking out the "mixed blood" Spanish-Mestiso as they do the European-Americans in Arizona.

Very Strange.

[praxis1966]

I personally agree with the earlier points made about a return to Native American control of the region. You have to remember that at one point Mexican territory ranged clear up to certain parts of Souix lands. These MEChA and Aztlan idiots don&#39;t seem to care that the Native Americans that they are descended from never inhabited the vast majority of the territory they want returned.

The fact is, it&#39;s pure arrogance and outright racist to suggest that this land should be in any way returned to the control of the Mexican authority. By saying this, one would be arguing not against empires in general, but that the wrong empire is controlling the area. Nevermind the fact that the website for Voz de Aztlan, one of the most extreme groups in the so-called Aztlan movement, says, "Our duty is to take back what is ours even if it means carrying out total genocide."

Southern Poverty Law Center Article on "La Voz de Aztlan" (http://www.splcenter.org/intel/intelreport/article.jsp?aid=186)

[coda]

:ph34r: