The EU

[MarxItUpSome]

It appears that the EU is slowly falling apart. Many of its member states wish to begin to once again use their local currency rather than the Euro and several prominent countries have voted against an EU constitution. My question is, what are people's opinions on how effective or useful the EU is and what it would mean if it were to fall apart as now seems to be a possible outcome?

[Sir Aunty Christ]

The EU is one of those "great" experiments in history which its leaders always think will last forever. The EU will not last forever but I don't think its death will occur in the next few years. (Barring world war or global meltdown.) But the recent rejection of the constitution by France and Holland is certainly a huge set back.

The European leaders will now have to look at ways to make sure their experiment goes ahead at its current size without flatlining.

I'm not opposed to the EU in theory but like all socialists (true socialists not SPD, French Socialist or Labour) I want to see the emphasis on social issues and workers and the abandonment of neo-liberal policies.

The main stumbling block is economics. Britain, in particular, has one model of capitalism while the other major countries have another. Not until the models are aligned can the experiment truely work. The same went for communism. One of the reasons why communism failed in the 20th century is that communism was overshadowed by the more entreched capitalist system. There is a chance communism could have succeded if Trotsky had succeeded Lenin as Lenin wanted.

[Clarksist]

The EU is basically capitalist domination. That is about all it is. Europe needs to make some social breakthrough, but do you think if England, France, and other strong capitalist strongholds in Europe are as big a part of the EU as they have been so far that any change is going to happen? No.

The EU is to Europe what NAFTA was to Mexico, in that it is just trying to lock in European countries into laws and capitalism.

[__ca va?]

The EU is basically good because, though it is capitalistic, it...

1. ...is not as abusive as the US system of capitalism, for example in Europe health insurance is subsidized by the state, atthe same time in America 25% of the population is without any kind of healthcare because healthcare is privatized.

2. ... prevents wars! This is the first time in history when nations such as Germany, France and England have been living in peace! Don't forget that even 60 years ago more than half of Europe was under German occupation, and only 5 countries could remain neutral, the war affected the entire continent, plus Asia, plus America, taking more casualties than any war before!
It was after this shocking experience that the leaders of the 6 founders decided not to let it happen again, so the EU was not created to be a means of capitalist oppression.

[bolshevik butcher]

The EU is captialist in nature, it should be reforemed.

[SocialismIsCentrist]

i love the european union with an odd sense of patriotism. being british, this is an usual sense of identity.

Europe should be united, many regions under one flag and socialism. Socialism in europe is very strong.

but there is an issue that bites against european socialism - it is, Economic Reality. A false, but very seductive reality - its so obvious what has to be done you see. a little bit more liberalisation, more privatisation -got to compete and all that.

europe has a problem now, it is trapped a bit. It has got eastern europe weighing it down - their workers willing to work for little undercut workers in france and germany very easily - they grow by leeching off the previous sucesses of the more socialist countries. britain does it too. destructive competition makes the self-fullfilling need for liberalised economies.

Something has to happen, i dont know what, that breaks this cycle. Perhaps a USA economic collapse could undermine the case for liberal economic in undeniable unspinable ways. If europe re-embraces protectionism around itself, enforces common NMW, and reforms the budget so that france gets less and eastern europe gets more.. ..the EU can be as great as a know it can be.

but if that in the end cant happen - as much as it pains me, nations must break from the EU and perhaps reform. this could happen soon, the idea of the two speed europe.

[Hopes_Guevara]

Hi comrades,
Have anyone know what precisely is in The EU constitution? If you know please tell me. Thank you for your help!

[Raisa]

The EU pisses me off. The only reason Europe is so prosperous now is because of all the things they did to the third world.

They screwed up Africa and then turned their backs and left! And now they want to act all "civil" and have an EU.

What a bunch of BALONEY!

<_<

[MarxItUpSome]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 03:49 AM
Hi comrades,
Have anyone know what precisely is in The EU constitution? If you know please tell me. Thank you for your help&#33;
The BBC&#39;s simplified version (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2950276.stm)

[slim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 04:17 AM
The EU pisses me off. The only reason Europe is so prosperous now is because of all the things they did to the third world.

They screwed up Africa and then turned their backs and left&#33; And now they want to act all "civil" and have an EU.

What a bunch of BALONEY&#33;

<_<
The fact that Europe screwed up Africa is true enough but we must remember that it is American capitalsit companies that are opening the wounds with the world bank and globalism.

The European Economic Community was originally an effort by western Europe to prevent war breaking out in Europe again and to stop the Soviet Union from posing too much of a threat. Then this developed into the European Union. The role of this is to make trading easier for member states.

[turkishXstyle]

The EU is not a socialist union we are all dreaming of. the EU may be capitalistic in some points, but we have to look at the world we are living and we have to compare to other states.
you can hate me, but i think that the EU is a big step forward to socialism.
my reasons:
-unlike in the USA, we have a social market economy, not a free market. this means that european companies have to act for the public benefit, not for their financial statements. the state controls this.
-worker-rights have an extrem high priority(especially in germany, as long as the SPD stays on top)
-we have the best welfare state. there are state-insurances for everything
-as richer you are, as higher is the rate of you taxation, there are even luxury taxes in some countries
-consumer rights are very important in europe, you will not buy a pig in a poke here
-our society is multicultural, and there are almost no racism problems here, even though the foreigner (turks, yugoslavians, russians, arabs, s-e-asians, indians etc) came here short time ago, they are integrated very well

[bolshevik butcher]

yeh maybe it is but the eu constitution is not a step towards socialism.