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voice of the voiceless
10th June 2005, 23:39
I would like to discuss the effects fashion has on the majortiy of (young) people.
Also how fashion is emphasised and broadcast through a wide range of parts of the media such as celebrity cult, tabloid press etc etc.

Firstly i am surrounded daily by people whose fashion, and whose models of fashion, their celebrity icons, their romantic films, their actors, dictate their lives in almost every sense of their personality.

A while back, their was no such thing as a "teenager" this was infact invented by industries which harnessed the youth rebellion during the 60's and 70's, and turned it into fashion dictated groups, followed by those who believed the industries were on their side.

Fashion destroys individuality even though those who follow it claim it emphasises their individuallity. Thinking that what you consume makes you individual is a very sad state to be in. I believe when you are born, you are your "true self". By this i mean untainted by the opressive opinions, and actions of those opinions, of others. Before consumerist society developed to its extent now, your personality was influenced mainly by family, close friends and local area. What fashion, celebrity cult and the media do it profoundly change the values of the youth into that of self satisfaction, selfishness, and self obsessed vanity. It does, infact, exploit the basic impulses of humanity for unethical profit. This subdues the youth and makes many people uninterested in anything bar the things they consume, their parties, whose dating who, and obsession with their fake role models usually celebrities etc.

Community spirit, local relations, are destroyed by the mass media in the fashion sense. From a very young age young girls want to become "grown up" and independent. This is the sad affect fashion has on them. Everyones values and interests are becoming inceasingly similar, and what often happens is when an individual becomes frustrated with the similarity of those who follow fashion, they decide to join a "rebellious" fashion dictated group. E.g goths. This is extreme manipulation, they are still firmly harnessed by the thought that clothing affects individuality. This usually happens in younger years when we seek reasurance and acceptance, of course belonging to a group can be comforting but i am concerned by how innocent, young children are being manipulated by forces which seek to advertise the idea of immediate satisfaction of any desire; resulting often in lack of effort and hard work or dedication to achieve anything. The thing i find utterly disgusting is how those deamed "ugly" by society are treated, the fashion industry only acts to divide people more, and create a society so based on images that people look beyond nothing but what it presented to them, through adverts for example. This dependence has led to the mainstream parties being marketted like products, a sad reflection on many peoples psychology!

Those deamed "ugly" are tortured with self hate, depression, things like annorexia, they are pushed to the brink of suicide by such a mass of shallow fashion-obsessed people who treat them with no worth other than what profiteering companies have taught young people to judge each other by. I find this disturbing. Adverts on television advertise things like spot-cream, further torturing those who are deamed "ugly" and trapping them in a world where they increasingly believe they have no value. Teenagers being depressed isnt normal, as many may think, there is a reason! people who are at the hardest stage of their life are forced into such conflict!

I used to be very depressed when i was younger, i wanted people to be who they were meant to be, i wanted to be interested in their interests, to be normal and basically happy; but all i saw was such a monsterous uncaring youth emerging.
Of course now i have escaped this, but it took time and inner battle, and now i realise the truth behind the way fashion makes people act.

Hope is rapidly being destroyed.

this is sick and must stop. Please tell me others feel the same way??!!!

FatFreeMilk
11th June 2005, 08:57
So you're arguing that fashion must be abolished or something?

That is ridiculous. Fashion is a reflection of culture, if you get rid of culture than you have nothing. But no matter how hard you try, there is always going to be culture, and thus there will always be fashion. It's up to people as individuals to embrace or rebel against it.

Monty Cantsin
11th June 2005, 09:24
voice of the voiceless, you should look into the Situationists particualry the books The Society of the Spectacle by Guy Debord (http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/pub_contents/4) and The Revolution of Everyday Life By Raoul Vaneigem (http://library.nothingness.org/articles/SI/en/pub_contents/5)

These deal with the commodification of culture and consumer capitalism.

also you should look into the notion of “ideological hegemony” and the Frankfurt school.

TC
11th June 2005, 22:40
Fashion allows people to express themselves aesthetically in their every day lives; i think that allows people to express their individuality and distinctiveness...And people need to feel they look good to feel good and confident about themselves, its just part of being social.


If you think fashion destroy's individuailty, what would you prefer, uniforms :P ?

Monty Cantsin
12th June 2005, 02:27
i've been writing an essay one Hegelian philosophy of history and so forth but a secion of it deals with the notion of idenity.


At the hart of Hegel’s philosophical enterprise was the idea of the whole which according to Hegel is the true. The whole is the totality of particulars or fractional elements which are only partially true and therefore partially untrue. To illustrate the notions of totality and particular we shall give an example. Each individual person deals with finding their individuality and their own social group; this is a division of a notion, the notion of identity. Human Identity is split into particularity and universality, we have to define ourselves as separate from the universal and show particularity. But at the same moment our particularity is only a particular form of the universal and the universal is just the general form of particularities. To put this in non-Hegelian language our identity (the whole concept of individuality and social being) is contracted out of our relationship between the collective group (the universal) and our relative autonomy from the group as an individual (a particularity). So what this example shows us is that the notion of identity is based upon conceptually divvied but interrelated parts which through there struggle lead towards the whole our self-conscious notion of identity. This process of divided, interrelated and conflicting parts leading towards a totality is in the Hegelian scheme the basic process of history but it also includes in this dialectical process the notion of sublation (Aufhebung) and negation.

so the problem is not Fashion in itself but the commodifitcation of the fashions of culture...

Commie Rat
12th June 2005, 02:48
i know a fair few kids that wear 'punk' style clothes even though they sit at the front of the class a get top marks all day, they do it to be 'cool' i kow a guy who depises rap and pop culture but wears bling bling pants every where

Raisa
12th June 2005, 11:06
Well yall...in communism you bet your ass there is going to be fashion.

If people like something their going to want one too. Fashion existed before class society even did. And it will after.

OleMarxco
12th June 2005, 14:12
Who cares about Fashion...Fashion is for semi-femi designers, and of jobless bums.... STYLE, however...is another THANG...it comes from within, n'stuff, 'cuz'n a got character! ;)

cubist
12th June 2005, 16:27
i don't subscribe to fashion i wear what i ilke i always have and always will, allowing such inferior things in life like aesthetic values control your life is a recipe for disaster.

voice of the voiceless
12th June 2005, 21:01
i meant more than simply fashion as in the clothes people wear but the whole supressive/manipulative world it can create through the media. If fashion is a reflection of culture why is nearly all western fashion the same?

fashion in the east is largely reflective of culture, but here its reflective of profiteering through the media, and social pressure.

Forward Union
12th June 2005, 21:20
No offence to the replies, but you've all mostly misunderstood. He's not arguing that fashion should abolished, its a beautiful art. He's arguing that people, from nearly the day they are born, are being moulded by corporations, and brainwashed to believe its their free will.

I suggest that everyone hear reads "No Logo" by Naomi Klein, it explains how; you may think that corporate based fashion is ok, and that labels and logos are just a smart way of getting the product to advertise itself. But its more, its a manifestation of corporate power, a three dimensional mind control machine.

http://www.nologo.org/

Forward Union
12th June 2005, 21:35
Originally posted by voice of the [email protected] 10 2005, 10:39 PM
i wanted people to be who they were meant to be, i wanted to be interested in their interests, to be normal and basically happy;
I don't know why, but these lines really seem to mean something to me. I think its because, most of us have had to put our own interests and wants aside at some point because of our ideas. It's almost like wearing a crown of thorns, a burden we have to carry, and at the same time, a hallmark of irony. And as far as happiness is concerned, I know of many leftists who have killed themselves from mental stress and depression. There is an organisation set up to help burnt out or morally destroyed activists reclaim their 'steam', I'll dig up the link later.

Im still a generally happy person, and I still have time for my own hobbies and interests, and im far from burnt out, I have a high moral. But I definitely have less time than I would have had, were I not into politics.

voice of the voiceless
12th June 2005, 21:40
thanks,

i can see why some leftists do get so depressed, we are basically an alienated group, as ideology is governed by tv :D

pingwin
16th June 2005, 13:48
i meant more than simply fashion as in the clothes people wear but the whole supressive/manipulative world it can create through the media. If fashion is a reflection of culture why is nearly all western fashion the same?



All western fashion show massive similarities because media spreads western culture around at an astonishing speed. The area with strong cultural ties has always been limited to the area of people that communicated with each other. The more widespread, quick and intensive the communication the stronger the cultural ties.

Currently with the way media works communication is on a historically unparalled level. So are cultural relations and one of the main effects seems to be the 'generalisation of western culture'. As in I'd have to travel to a pretty far country to get outside of 100 km of a MacDonalds :)

Che NJ
16th June 2005, 18:04
I think fashion totally controls some people's lives. I don't understand how you could even care, I wear T-shirts everywhere I go and I don't give a thought to which one I put on every day. I think it's interesting how the world seems to have a fashion network that brings new styles to every corner of the globe. I don't think humans could come up with a worse reason for using our new communication system. The spread of these styles take away people's and nation's individuality. If I were to pick a topic that is the most distanced from what really matters in life, fashion would be right up there.