Successful Multicultural societies

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

I'm just asking this because nazis frequently claim that there has never been a successful multicultural society, and I suspect that they are wrong.
Can anybody confirm or deny this?

[Black Dagger]

That depends soley on how 'success' is defined. The US, for example, is an economically, politically and militarily 'successful' multi-cultural nation (i'm assuming 'multi-cultural' means many ethnic groups?). If 'success' means how well the different ethnic groups get on- that's another thing all together. There will always be a barrier to 'success' in 'race' relations, ie. harmony, in capitalist societies because class lines in most multi-ethnic societies also run a long 'skin lines', where one group is structurally/materially privileged over another, and the rest fight for lower positions or for parity with the dominant ethnic group.

But as i said, it depends on your definition of 'success', if they mean succesfully integrated societies without ethnic tensions, they are much harder to achieve than multi-ethnic societies that are politically, militarily or economically successful.

[LSD]

From a high enough vantage point, no hisotrical society has been "successful" because they all fall, eventually.

As Black Dagger rightly pointed out, "success" depends on your meaning.

Today, nearly all first world countries are to some extent multicultural. But if you want a historical perspective, you could actually go back as far as the Roman Empire which was the first truly multicultural state. Although it was imperialistitc and tyrannical, it wasn't really racist or culturally oppressive. At it''s hight, Rome included literally hundreds of cultures, races, and peoples.

More recently, the Soviet Union is actually a surprisingly good example of "multiculturalism". Although, again, despotic, it did included many cultural elements.

But, honestly, the best examples are the modern liberal democracies of North America and Western Europe. Certainly by any standard they are the most "successful" in the world!

[__ca va?]

I don't know whether Switzerland can be counted as a multi-cultural society. There are 4 ethnic groups: germans, french, italians and reto-romans who have been living together for centuries now, but on the other hand they don't regard themselves as one of these groups, but above all they all consider themselves Swiss. And Americans may have many different roots but they also consider themselves Americans. So I think that there are no multicultural societies. A sociaety may contain various cultures but these either live a separated life or they have a common culture in which they can "get rid" of their innate cultures.

I hope it wasn't too incomprehensible :blink:

[El_Revolucionario]

Brazil
Cuba
Canada

[Raisa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 02:55 PM
I'm just asking this because nazis frequently claim that there has never been a successful multicultural society, and I suspect that they are wrong.
Can anybody confirm or deny this?
Multi Racial countries are stronger and more sucessful!

Look at Ancient Greece. What an advanced and amazing civilization! It is not because Greece was better then anyone, it is because many different kinds of people exchanged culture with Greece, so they had alot of influence from the other Meditteranean countries. More to try, more to think about! Not just one culture with one way, but many. Many people with many different ideas.

The whole Meditteranean is known for having very advanced civilizations for back in the day, and it is all because of all the different people being so close around each other. And to this day, most of the mediterranean people have the same olive skin tone, whether it is darker or lighter from a history rich of mixture.

Nazis probably got a problem with that skin color, but it didnt even take their civilization twenty years to fall apart. So sure they'll make alot of rediculous claims, it doesnt matter!

[KptnKrill]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 06:29 PM
Brazil
Cuba
Canada
I was going to say canada! But I didn't feel like getting harassed by some bitter canadian who doesn't consider their society successful ;)

[fernando]

The Netherlands a couple of years ago before we got all these conversative pricks!

[monkeydust]

Originally posted by Raisa+Jun 9 2005, 11:13 PM--> (Raisa @ Jun 9 2005, 11:13 PM)
[email protected] 9 2005, 02:55 PM
I'm just asking this because nazis frequently claim that there has never been a successful multicultural society, and I suspect that they are wrong.
Can anybody confirm or deny this?
Multi Racial countries are stronger and more sucessful!

Look at Ancient Greece. What an advanced and amazing civilization! It is not because Greece was better then anyone, it is because many different kinds of people exchanged culture with Greece, so they had alot of influence from the other Meditteranean countries. More to try, more to think about! Not just one culture with one way, but many. Many people with many different ideas.

The whole Meditteranean is known for having very advanced civilizations for back in the day, and it is all because of all the different people being so close around each other. And to this day, most of the mediterranean people have the same olive skin tone, whether it is darker or lighter from a history rich of mixture.

Nazis probably got a problem with that skin color, but it didnt even take their civilization twenty years to fall apart. So sure they'll make alot of rediculous claims, it doesnt matter! [/b]
Ancient Greece wasn't particularly multicultural in the least. I don't know where you got this idea from.

It's true that metics - Greeks from other Greek city-states - were able to reside in various places (though they were often still disliked). But these people were still Greek.

In fact the Greek word for any person who was not Greek was barbaroi. You've guessed it, anyone who wasn't a Greek was thought to be a barbarian.

So much for multiculturalism.

I agree with most of the examples LSD cited. Western Europe and North America are renowned for multiculturalism these days, more than most places.

[Commie Girl]

Originally posted by KptnKrill+Jun 9 2005, 05:16 PM--> (KptnKrill @ Jun 9 2005, 05:16 PM)
[email protected] 9 2005, 06:29 PM
Brazil
Cuba
Canada
I was going to say canada! But I didn't feel like getting harassed by some bitter canadian who doesn't consider their society successful ;) [/b]
:lol: I was going to just say Canada too! I think our version of multiculturalism can be called very successful !! The U$ is the melting pot, not multicultyral at all :(

EDIT: At least by a Canadian's definition of multiculturalism

[Clarksist]

Nazi's only say that because they can always say that there was a strong majority. In almost every "successful" country there is a vast majority of one race. So it isn't easy to argue against it. Although there is also no basis in saying it, as there is no way to say that if it was pretty even culturally it would be any less "successful".

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 01:02 AM
The Netherlands a couple of years ago before we got all these conversative pricks!
Not really. The "leftist" parties that we had at power in those days simply refused to adress any issues regarding tension between locals and immigrants. As a direct result, the first person to shout fuck those immigrants on tv became instantly popular.

Raisa

It had nothing to do with being open to more cultures. It had more to do with Greek expansionism and a superior military. Like most grand empires (mongols, persians, macedonians, romans, osman etc.) they choose to leave the local cultures alone, to not to stir up revolts.

[Clarksist]

Originally posted by Non-Sectarian Bastard!@Jun 10 2005, 04:03 AM
It had nothing to do with being open to more cultures. It had more to do with Greek expansionism and a superior military. Like most grand empires (mongols, persians, macedonians, romans, osman etc.) they choose to leave the local cultures alone, to not to stir up revolts.
It's not that black and white. Many historians call the innovative Romans "the greatest borrowers" because they conquered vast land and borrowed the best ideas from them all for society. But I also agree that most dominant ancient empires also had pretty much countries within them, where cultures stuck almost the exact same way. Just the capital city and key military points benefited or changed.