MI5 at the Edinburgh Protests

[Matty_UK]

Although I wouldn't say my views are especially radical, I'm a strong supporter of the make trade fair movement, and thought I should voice some concerns about it in a quarter which should hopefully make a difference.

I'm worried about the issue of agent provocateur thugs from MI5 inciting violence at the march in Edinburgh, leading to the movement being discredited and making us look like thugs. It's inevitable this will happen, and may render the protest counter-productive, taking middle Englands sympathy to the cause (that we have so close to attaining) away.

Obviously there is no way to deal with them, and the only thing I can think of is to raise awareness of the fact it's going to be them who initiate the violence. It's too late to start an effective campaign doing this now, BUT if the protest ends up in violence we must organise a second protest, complaining about MI5's use of agent provocateurs to subvert our democratic rights. This will make the government look bad-BUT we also must discourage violence against police if it all kicks off! We have to keep the moral highground!

Also, does anyone get the idea that Blair is manipulating us? There is no way he is actually going to cancel African debt, the Americans would not let it happen, but Gordon Brown has announced plans to do this and Blair has made promises to help Africa...it's like they're encouraging us to protest in Edinburgh. But to what end?

[bunk]

Don't know, there are ways to spot them on a few sites. Obviously you can't spot them all so just resist arrest. I hope things kick off on the make poverty history march personally...

[Matty_UK]

Why on earth would you hope things kick off? What will violence achieve?

Look, the make poverty history thing is ALMOST a campaign of middle England. By resorting to violence all you do is alienate moderate liberals who support the cause....not to mention people could be killed if it kicks off.

[bunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 07:25 PM
Why on earth would you hope things kick off? What will violence achieve?

Look, the make poverty history thing is ALMOST a campaign of middle England. By resorting to violence all you do is alienate moderate liberals who support the cause....not to mention people could be killed if it kicks off.
These liberals need to be radicalized... Maybe if they saw some people marching a route tehy wanted to and pushing through police lines it would impress them. As it is, the make poverty history march is dictated by the police.

[Matty_UK]

Why do you need to radicalise them?

[bunk]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 10:18 PM
Why do you need to radicalise them?
To further the revolutionary communist prospects i nBritain. Democratic liberals aren't gonna do for much

[Matty_UK]

*sigh* Well since I'm not a revolutionary communist myself that idea doesn't appeal to me.....

Violence would damage the "make poverty history" campaign. Right now, most of the media is on our side for this-if the protests kick off and make us, not the police, look bad then it would mean mainstream support for the make poverty history campaign will be crushed. Slightly improving Britains revolutionary prospects doesn't seem worth potentially destroying the campaign to make trade fair, which would save many lives.

Maybe this is what Blair is hoping for. He knows there is no way he is ever going to cancel African debt, so by implicitly taking the side of the make poverty history campaign he can guarantee the protests will be enormous and therefore the damage caused by them enormous. Perhaps he is hoping for violence to break out so there's a backlash against the campaign, so the pressure is dropped.

[bunk]

I actullly don't think there will be any mass violence. The protests will ensure the agenda will be on the news for a while but then everyone will forget about it.

[Severian]

Originally posted by Josh+Jun 6 2005, 04:27 PM--> (Josh @ Jun 6 2005, 04:27 PM)
[email protected] 6 2005, 10:18 PM
Why do you need to radicalise them?
To further the revolutionary communist prospects i nBritain. Democratic liberals aren't gonna do for much [/b]
Right. The way to make people more favorable to revolutonary communism, is for self-proclaimed revolutionary communists to involve them in a fight against the police against their will.

If you want to call an action for the purpose of having "things kick off", feel free. But this crap of trying to start shit at protests called as peaceful, legal protests, which most people show up at expecting and wanting a peaceful, legal protest...is just incredibly manipulative. Treating people as livestock, forcing them into a fight.

[Matty_UK]

Originally posted by Severian+Jun 7 2005, 11:13 AM--> (Severian @ Jun 7 2005, 11:13 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 04:27 PM

[email protected] 6 2005, 10:18 PM
Why do you need to radicalise them?
To further the revolutionary communist prospects i nBritain. Democratic liberals aren't gonna do for much
Right. The way to make people more favorable to revolutonary communism, is for self-proclaimed revolutionary communists to involve them in a fight against the police against their will.

If you want to call an action for the purpose of having "things kick off", feel free. But this crap of trying to start shit at protests called as peaceful, legal protests, which most people show up at expecting and wanting a peaceful, legal protest...is just incredibly manipulative. Treating people as livestock, forcing them into a fight. [/b]
Ditto

[slim]

If violence was going to kick off then the marchers need to appear like the victims to keep support. To pull of such an act would be impossible if it is not preplanned. Stay peaceful. Keep safe and good luck in the march.

If there is any violence i will join the struggle for the end of poverty.

[bunk]

things kicking off and direct action would be positive..... I don't care what you say but it's much better than marching in a nice circle

[slim]

Have you ever studied protest, military or revolutionary tactics?

There are many factors involved in a protest.

The G8 protest will be good either way. If it is violent then the outcry will be deafening and riots will spread but many will be hurt.

If it is peaceful then the view should get across.

[bunk]

I don't care. Non - Violent direct action would be the best for this protest but anythings better than walking on a route you've been set out by the authorities.

I hope none of you is in the exploit workers make poverty history campaign

[bolshevik butcher]

i'm gonna be there with hands of venueula, that means we'll be spreading socialism., not wishy washy make poverty history crap!

[Donnie]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 11:40 PM
*sigh* Well since I'm not a revolutionary communist myself that idea doesn't appeal to me.....

Violence would damage the "make poverty history" campaign. Right now, most of the media is on our side for this-if the protests kick off and make us, not the police, look bad then it would mean mainstream support for the make poverty history campaign will be crushed. Slightly improving Britains revolutionary prospects doesn't seem worth potentially destroying the campaign to make trade fair, which would save many lives.

Maybe this is what Blair is hoping for. He knows there is no way he is ever going to cancel African debt, so by implicitly taking the side of the make poverty history campaign he can guarantee the protests will be enormous and therefore the damage caused by them enormous. Perhaps he is hoping for violence to break out so there's a backlash against the campaign, so the pressure is dropped.
I doubt there will be any agent prevocateurs in the "Make poverty History" march lol, the only agent-prevocateurs that will be destroying protest and marches will be the Anarchist and Communist ones. I garantee there will be agent-prevocateurs in the Black Bloc, I mean they have a nak of doing to Black blocs.

Also i garantee NAZI's will be there to try and beat a few of us up, but if we keep together we should be ok.

[cormacobear]

Does it matter whether it is peacefull or not. The government and the press are looking to paint everyone as a bunch of Anarchists anyway, At the Summit of the Americas in Montreal they charged people for launching teddy bears (projectiles) over barricades. So if they're going to arrest you anyway you might as well destroy some of their shit firs. If there hadn't been riots in Seattle how much press would we have never gotten.
Both sides need to be there, the radicals to draw press and make it a story, and the goody goodies, who show how innocent and truly concerned average people we are.

It's a sad situation but the best recipe we have for making protests work.