BLATANT SHOW OF FORCE

[NovelGentry]

After discovering that I, NovelGentry, had changed the custom member subtitles of members supportive of structural changes in the board, the administration of the board has established a discussion and an eventual poll to call for my banning from this board.

Initially this was going to ride out. The discussion and poll were created in the CC itself to give the impression of the democratic nature of this board. Upon revealing support for my ideas, members, including but possibly not limited to bed_of_nails, Zingu, and Latin America have been kicked from the CC. Our ongoing discussion in the live chat was abruptly interrupted as we were all banned from the live chat server as well.

We no longer have any reasonable direct means to communicate with one another through this forum. Our resources are shot, and what support we would have had in the CC is apparently being banned/restricted without any decision by the CC itself.

I would like to invite all members who would like to show their support to add =RA= to their signature, and please e-mail me: [email protected] or send me an IM via AIM: A Real Marxist

Certainly my own fate, as well as the fate of all those who have supported us on this board is in question. I'd like you all now to ask yourselves and reflect, even those who did not believe before, what power does the CC have? What good is it's limited democratic institution when even those who have been elected to it can be banned at will for their support of anyone opposing it's decision?

[madmummyof3]

*BUMP*

[Anti-establishment]

I'm even more glad I joined the RA, just proved right what I thought of the CC all along!

[Deepest Red]

I call for solidarity with gent!

[madmummyof3]

*BUMP*

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

You big bunch of drama queens.

[OleMarxco]

Stop bumping, you f...uh, uh, I mean, fagette :P
Heck, whatever. I'm just like, with this Rebel Alliance 'cuz it means, ah, yeah, ACTION. Eh...what was I supposed to say again?...*gun in the back* ....OH! It was....eh. VIVA LA REVOLUTION...uh...DOWN WITH THE SYSTEM! ;)

[RedAnarchist]

People, these silly games wont get us anywhere! We need to stop doing daft things like the 'Rebel Alliance'. I mean, who do you think you are? A band of guerillas in a state? No, you are, like the vast majority of members of this forum, intelligent, young people who really should not be pissing around like this. I bet the Stalinists at EG are laughing at this board right now, glad that Malte's site is having inner turmoil.

[NovelGentry]

I bet the Stalinists at EG are laughing at this board right now, glad that Malte's site is having inner turmoil.

And no doubt we spend far too much fucking time considering what they think, and not nearly enough considering our own path/goals. I want sane/civil discussion, the ability to make a point and have it not be trashed, I want a means by which we can show our support, as opposed to a poll that has to exist in chit chat and get burried under things like "I don't drink carbonated Soda." -- I want the change that makes what all you supposedly want actually possible.

It is you who oppose this. It is you who oppose civil discussion and democratic means, but favor instead bans and restrictions. You think this really has to do with the fact that I changed my subtitle and other's who wished for theirs to be changed to show support? You think this is really that simple?

If it is just foolishness then let us do it. There are people who take this board far more seriously than us, those who would see some of it's greatest members wiped off of it before they allow for people ot change their own damn subtitles.

[LSD]

You think this really has to do with the fact that I changed my subtitle and other's who wished for theirs to be changed to show support?

Yes.


You think this is really that simple?

Yes.


If it is just foolishness then let us do it. There are people who take this board far more seriously than us, those who would see some of it's greatest members wiped off of it before they allow for people ot change their own damn subtitles.

It's called breach of trust.

You had trust, you breached it.


Upon revealing support for my ideas, members, including but possibly not limited to bed_of_nails, Zingu, and Latin America have been kicked from the CC.

They were kicked because by having the "Rebel Alliance" moniker they indicated that they disagreed with the existance of the CC. Therefore there is no reason for them to be in it.

[bed_of_nails]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 6 2005, 08:04 PM

You think this really has to do with the fact that I changed my subtitle and other's who wished for theirs to be changed to show support?

Yes.


You think this is really that simple?

Yes.


If it is just foolishness then let us do it. There are people who take this board far more seriously than us, those who would see some of it's greatest members wiped off of it before they allow for people ot change their own damn subtitles.

It's called breach of trust.

You had trust, you breached it.


Upon revealing support for my ideas, members, including but possibly not limited to bed_of_nails, Zingu, and Latin America have been kicked from the CC.

They were kicked because by having the "Rebel Alliance" moniker they indicated that they disagreed with the existance of the CC. Therefore there is no reason for them to be in it.
Now why dont you go tell that to the people saying "You disagree with the CC? Be a part of it and help change the system!"?

[Anti-establishment]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 07:54 PM
I bet the Stalinists at EG are laughing at this board right now, glad that Malte's site is having inner turmoil.
Who cares what they think? Let them laugh, and I would not call this situation turmoil. Was their any need to kick RA members out of the CC, really?

[NovelGentry]

They were kicked because by having the "Rebel Alliance" moniker they indicated that they disagreed with the existance of the CC. Therefore there is no reason for them to be in it.

The Rebel Alliance moniker, as you put it, does not demand any such belief. We are a group of individuals who have varying agreements and disagreements with the structure of this board, not all of which are directly related to my original Critique of the CC. We want to see structural change brought on by discussion and democratic decision making -- whether or not this means abolishing the CC is completely up to each individual. Furthermore, whatever their personal belief is, does not change the fact that they want others to be able to participate in that discussion. We may very well all have different views on the structure of this board, but where we stand is that we want the means by which to express those views openly to all members and come to some common advancement.

EDIT: I find it funny you claim to know what we all stand for.

[LSD]

EDIT: I find it funny you claim to know what we all stand for.

I don't. You do. I'm just paraphrasing your "critique of the Commie Club" rant.


The Rebel Alliance moniker, as you put it, does not demand any such belief. We are a group of individuals who have varying agreements and disagreements with the structure of this board, not all of which are directly related to my original Critique of the CC.

Hardly.

From the statements of your own fellow "RA"ers, they advocate putting the "=RA=" symbol "if you support NovelGentry".

It's always been about you, mate. It still is.

[NovelGentry]

I don't. You do. I'm just paraphrasing your "critique of the Commie Club" rant.

Really now... because we all share a subtitle? Unlike certain groups, the Rebel Alliance is quite OK with discussion, dissent, different ideas, etc. We have already had several conversations (not all our members, but a select number) on different ways to approach board structures etc. There is nothing static about our thinking, if there's something wrong with that, then "I don't want to be right."


Hardly.

From the statements of your own fellow "RA"ers, they advocate putting the "=RA=" symbol "if you support NovelGentry".

It's always been about you, mate. It still is.

And I have gone to great lengths to establish that it is not a support of me, but a support of what we are standing for in general. Whether or not I get banned is only a small issue of what kind of change we are standing for. How this change comes about, is not something we all agree on... but certainly, you saying we all do agree on it makes it easier to justify why those who disagree with my ban should be kicked out of the CC.

[LSD]

Really now... because we all share a subtitle?

Yes.

"Rebel Alliance" is clearly meant to indicate an opposition to the "evil empire" of the CC. Furthermore, you as the nomitive founder have indicated your strong desire to see the CC eliminated. It has been your constant cry almost since you first got here.

It is therefore quite rational to deduce that those joining your little clique share this fundamental belief.

Look, NovelGentry, I know you hate the "this is not a country" argument, but how about the "this is just a messageboard" one?

This board is not meant to be an excersize in leftist society, it is meant to be a means for communication. The CC is meant to ensure that the board runs relatively smoothly. We have rules on this forum to make sure that it's organized and efficient, likewise for the CC.The reason we restrict people to OI is because the purpose of the rest of the board is for debates between leftists, not debates on leftism. If we let cappies roam the board, every thread would turn into "none of this matters because COMMUNISM DOESN'T WORK".

By the same token, if we keep people in the CC who do not believe it has a right to exist, then every thread will turn into "none of this matters because THE CC IS MORALLY WRONG"

Just as we do not want every thread in politics to turn into a debate on Revolutionary Leftism itself, so do we not want every thread in the CC to turn into a debate on the existance of the CC itself.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 01:10 PM
We no longer have any reasonable direct means to communicate with one another through this forum.
PM? This thread? Or just use e-mail (with cc) like normal people?

I might point out, incidentally, that L.A. posted he also had changed member subtitles. Your actions in this respect were an abuse of authority and trust that were given you as a tech support person.


Our resources are shot, and what support we would have had in the CC is apparently being banned/restricted without any decision by the CC itself.

I don't understand why you think this is a bad thing if you're for abolishing the CC. Since the CC's bad, why should it be consulted?

But then, I don't understand what changes you want to make on this board, or how abolishing the CC would make it more democratic rather than less. If you have ever explained them coherently, I must have missed it.

Edit: OK, it's on page 3 of the "Critque of the CC" thread. Although I wouldn't call it doherent. "The establishment of blah blah blah should be established." Basically it calls for decisions by vote of the entire board membership. Experimental and impractical.

It's true the CC is basically advisory in practice as it is often bypassed. But this board is still more democratic than most. The administrators' decisions are usually fairly reasonable.

So it's not clear why you're taking this hysterical tone of rebellion against the evil empire.

If you had a proposal of how the board could be improved, which actually made sense, you could simply advocate it calmly and rationally, rather than shrilly denouncing admin actions. None of their actions have interfered your ability to advocate such a proposal - only banning you could do that.

And frankly, you seem to be trying real hard to get yourself banned. It's one escalating provocation after another.

[bed_of_nails]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 6 2005, 08:29 PM

Really now... because we all share a subtitle?

Yes.

"Rebel Alliance" is clearly meant to indicate an opposition to the "evil empire" of the CC. Furthermore, you as the nomitive founder have indicated your strong desire to see the CC eliminated. It has been your constant cry almost since you first got here.

It is therefore quite rational to deduce that those joining your little clique share this fundamental belief.

Look, NovelGentry, I know you hate the "this is not a country" argument, but how about the "this is just a messageboard" one?

This board is not meant to be an excersize in leftist society, it is meant to be a means for communication. The CC is meant to ensure that the board runs relatively smoothly. We have rules on this forum to make sure that it's organized and efficient, likewise for the CC.The reason we restrict people to OI is because the purpose of the rest of the board is for debates between leftists, not debates on leftism. If we let cappies roam the board, every thread would turn into "none of this matters because COMMUNISM DOESN'T WORK".

By the same token, if we keep people in the CC who do not believe it has a right to exist, then every thread will turn into "none of this matters because THE CC IS MORALLY WRONG"

Just as we do not want every thread in politics to turn into a debate on Revolutionary Leftism itself, so do we not want every thread in the CC to turn into a debate on the existance of the CC itself.
out of the few members of the CC that disagreed with either the CC or the Admins (Choose one, those are the main two reasons people are in the RA), would you post a quote by one of us that exclaimed "THE CC IS MORALLY WRONG!"? I think you are pulling this out your ass.

[LSD]

And frankly, you seem to be trying real hard to get yourself banned. It's one escalating provocation after another.

I think he may want to become a martyr for the "cause". :lol:


out of the few members of the CC that disagreed with either the CC or the Admins (Choose one, those are the main two reasons people are in the RA), would you post a quote by one of us that exclaimed "THE CC IS MORALLY WRONG!"?

I didn't claim that anyone "exclaimed" that, I was just pointing out the parallel between the CC and the board in general.

We don't want those opposed to leftism in the general board, even if they are calm and rational, because we want the discussions to only be between leftists on leftist issues. Likewise, we want discussion in the CC to be on practical board maintanance, not by those who want the elimination of the maintainance board itself!

[red_orchestra]

I will say that in comparison to other post boards...REVOLUTIONARY-LEFT has been the most democratic so far. I have had no problems with the rules or regulations here..

I think all kinds of Leftists are welcome to voice their opinions, as far as I know. I think the issue is with those Leftists who are infact supporting Capitalism and believe that Socialism as a entity needs to be moderated. I think any Leftist who goes around saying Capitalism is a positive force are very wrong and is betraying the true essence of Socialism.

hopefully this makes some sense...I'm not sure if this truely relates to what is being discussed here.
:lol:

[NovelGentry]

"Rebel Alliance" is clearly meant to indicate an opposition to the "evil empire" of the CC. Furthermore, you as the nomitive founder have indicated your strong desire to see the CC eliminated. It has been your constant cry almost since you first got here.

Well actually it's cause I'm fairly uncreative and needed something quick if I was to establish this access beyond the control of the admins.

I'll also have you know that I am not the founder, at least not in the sense of the idea for the Rebel Alliance, and not even in the sense of deciding what kind of show we would make. You seem to know very little about our group, which is why I wonder why you keep claiming you do.


It is therefore quite rational to deduce that those joining your little clique share this fundamental belief.

It is not my clique. If it is even a clique, it is the clique of it's members. And again, it wasn't founded by me, I was however the means by which it came into existence -- or at least visible existence.


This board is not meant to be an excersize in leftist society, it is meant to be a means for communication.

Well you're establishing something of pseudo-antagonism. It is true this board is not an exercize in leftist society... I never claimed it was or should be. It is also true that it's meant to be a means for communication. It does, however, form a community, and thus even if it is not designed to be an exercize in society, leftist or otherwise, it is.


The CC is meant to ensure that the board runs relatively smoothly. We have rules on this forum to make sure that it's organized and efficient, likewise for the CC.

And those rules, as well as how well they were upheld and in check have failed miserably.


The reason we restrict people to OI is because the purpose of the rest of the board is for debates between leftists, not debates on leftism.

I never opposed this. In fact, if you read some of my old posts on it, you will find I make the very same argument.


If we let cappies roam the board, every thread would turn into "none of this matters because COMMUNISM DOESN'T WORK".

No doubt.


By the same token, if we keep people in the CC who do not believe it has a right to exist, then every thread will turn into "none of this matters because THE CC IS MORALLY WRONG"

But this is not what you did. You kicked people because of a subtitle, one which you feel you have some sort of say in defining, regardless of your obvious lack of knowledge on it. More, you kicked them disregarding the CC itself, there was no discussion, there was no vote. To the best of my knowledge any such rules for or against this action are not written, and if they are, they are not transparent to those being kicked. The guidelines really say nothing of such rules.

We on the outside are told that the CC regulates these sort of things -- but there has been no such regulation, it was the direct action of a few that lead to this, as well as our banning from the live chat... what is the excuse for that btw? Do we not "believe in live chat and thus do not belong there" ???

You don't know the answer for that, because there was never a discussion.

[bed_of_nails]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 6 2005, 08:37 PM

And frankly, you seem to be trying real hard to get yourself banned. It's one escalating provocation after another.

I think he may want to become a martyr for the "cause". :lol:


out of the few members of the CC that disagreed with either the CC or the Admins (Choose one, those are the main two reasons people are in the RA), would you post a quote by one of us that exclaimed "THE CC IS MORALLY WRONG!"?

I didn't claim that anyone "exclaimed" that, I was just pointing out the parallel between the CC and the board in general.

We don't want those opposed to leftism in the general board, even if they are calm and rational, because we want the discussions to only be between leftists on leftist issues. Likewise, we want discussion in the CC to be on practical board maintanance, not by those who want the elimination of the maintainance board itself!
Do you not see the difference between the CC and the OI?

Most of us can hate elements of the CC but still function within it to maintain the board. We have been for quite a while now.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 02:43 PM
I'll also have you know that I am not the founder, at least not in the sense of the idea for the Rebel Alliance, and not even in the sense of deciding what kind of show we would make. You seem to know very little about our group, which is why I wonder why you keep claiming you do.
Why don't you tell us more, then?


It is not my clique.

The heck it's not. Everyone else keeps saying it's to support you. Are we not supposed to listen to them...but only to you? Same result then, NG defines the Rebel Alliance either way.


Well you're establishing something of pseudo-antagonism. It is true this board is not an exercize in leftist society... I never claimed it was or should be. It is also true that it's meant to be a means for communication. It does, however, form a community, and thus even if it is not designed to be an exercize in society, leftist or otherwise, it is.

NG vs NG.

"It is true this board is not an exercize in leftist society... I never claimed it was or should be." vs "It does, however, form a community, and thus even if it is not designed to be an exercize in society, leftist or otherwise, it is."


And those rules, as well as how well they were upheld and in check have failed miserably.

The heck they have. Discussions on this board do run smoothly.

And LSD is right. The CC has been running less effectively when it's distracted from its normal work by constant complaining that the CC is bad. Since y'all have been getting more and more strident, the problem tends to get worse with time.

It's getting to be a problem with the board as a whole, but ignoring you can fix that. I plan to start right now.

[LSD]

You seem to know very little about our group, which is why I wonder why you keep claiming you do.

I only know what the rest of us know which is whatever your little groups has made known.

Clearly, from the posts of members of your clicque, the overriding theme is support for you and it was you who abused your position to help the little group ..so it makes sense to assume that the group shares your ideological bent.


l also have you know that I am not the founder, at least not in the sense of the idea for the Rebel Alliance

And again, it wasn't founded by me

Well, that is news to me.

Do tell!


It is not my clique.

Bullshit.

It's all about you. All that your fellow clicquers talk about is "supporting NovelGentry".


But this is not what you did. You kicked people because of a subtitle, one which you feel you have some sort of say in defining, regardless of your obvious lack of knowledge on it.

Look, there was this member of the board, let's call him X, who has said MANY MANY MANY times that he wants to see the CC eliminated. This member begins posting long ranting diatribes on the subject. Other members support this member X.

Now, member X, who has been given special trust to act as technical assistant, abuses his power and gives a special little snarky title to these supporters of his.

So as far as anyone outside of this little clicque can determine, everyone involved shares the fundamental belief that the CC should not exist. If you guys didn't want that perception, you should have said so. Because the logical deduction is that an organization based, by all outward appearances, on support for someone's ideas, supports those ideas.


Well actually it's cause I'm fairly uncreative and needed something quick if I was to establish this access beyond the control of the admins.

Oh, you mean because you were violating the trust placed in you and didn't want to get stopped...

How noble! :lol:


Most of us can hate elements of the CC but still function within it to maintain the board. We have been for quite a while now.

If you hate "elements" of the CC, then you can discuss those problems. But when you join an "organization" that, as far as anyone can tell, advocates the elimination of the CC, why would you be surprised that you'd be kicked?


Originally posted by Severian
It's getting to be a problem with the board as a whole, but ignoring you can fix that. I plan to start right now.

Amen!

[NovelGentry]

Why don't you tell us more, then?

I am not going to take responsibility for what ideas were not mine, nor am I going to divulge that responsibility onto someone else. If they wish to explain "who's idea was it to do all this" they can do so.

Who it was already knows I am happy and glad for the idea, and I will readily admit, without me the idea would have been nothing more than an idea.


The heck it's not. Everyone else keeps saying it's to support you. Are we not supposed to listen to them...but only to you? Same result then, NG defines the Rebel Alliance either way.

Then everyone else needs to drop their "great leader" mindset. THIS IS NOT MY CLIQUE -- IT BELONGS TO ITS MEMBERS AS A WHOLE.

No, you're supposed to listen to all of us.


NG vs NG.

"It is true this board is not an exercize in leftist society... I never claimed it was or should be." vs "It does, however, form a community, and thus even if it is not designed to be an exercize in society, leftist or otherwise, it is."

The original discussion was relative to what this board was "meant to be" -- which is exactly what I was establshing in the first part. That is, my initial response was a response to what you stated the board was "meant to be." Context is key.


The heck they have. Discussions on this board do run smoothly.

And LSD is right. The CC has been running less effectively when it's distracted from its normal work by constant complaining that the CC is bad. Since y'all have been getting more and more strident, the problem tends to get worse with time.

It's getting to be a problem with the board as a whole, but ignoring you can fix that. I plan to start right now.

Have a blast.

[T_SP]

I am happy to say it was my idea! There, the truth is out, I see all you assholes jump on NG because he is an easy target for you all! But don't think that banning him will end this, hell no! You will have to unfairly ban many members on this board and whilst your at it why don't you throw your mock 'democracy' outta the window too! Because that is all it is, a made up democracy that all the admin and mods and CC members would have y'all believe for so long, well big the fool you all!

Also Gent is right, this is not one persons idea, but a whole bunch of like minded individuals who have implemented the whole thing!

[LSD]

No, you're supposed to listen to all of us.

Well, the CC members in question have been let back in, so this is sort of irrelevent.


whilst your at it why don't you throw your mock 'democracy' outta the window too! Because that is all it is, a made up democracy

Who ever claimed that this board was a democracy?


that all the admin and mods and CC members would have y'all believe for so long, well big the fool you all!

:o

Paranoid, much?

[NovelGentry]

Clearly, from the posts of members of your clicque, the overriding theme is support for you and it was you who abused your position to help the little group ..so it makes sense to assume that the group shares your ideological bent.

There was no "group" until I abused my position. This had been going on for several days unnoticed -- we didn't already know who wanted an RA subtitle, nor did we have any organization or means to identify ourselves collectively BEFORE I made that possible.


Well, that is news to me.

Do tell!

You seem to think this is far more formal than it is. The Rebel Alliance was formed as a means to show our support for structure change in the board. The person who's idea it was to develop a means of collective identification was not me, nor am I in any position to admit that for them. The only thing I can admit to is being the means by which it was made possible, which I already have.

In short, you'll have to wait for them to come forward if they so choose.


Bullshit.

It's all about you. All that your fellow clicquers talk about is "supporting NovelGentry".

It's all about the ideas. Whether they are my ideas, someone elses, whatever... if you support the general idea of the RA that effectively makes you RA. You can despise me all you want -- I'm sure many members do. Zingu happens to be quite fond of me it seems.


Look, there was this member of the board, let's call him X, who has said MANY MANY MANY times that he wants to see the CC eliminated. This member begins posting long ranting diatribes on the subject. Other members support this member X.

Go count how many times he said it. Before his Critique of the CC thread it was barely mentioned.

The "ranting diatribes" were a response to the dissolving of the original study group thread, which showed the ineffectiveness of the CC in establishing the study group which had supposedly been discussed prior to when we began discussion, and was still being discussed after -- it never went anywhere. It's ineffectiveness was doubly shown when immediate action was taken against a member supported initiative.


Now, member X, who has been given special trust to act as technical assistant, abuses his power and gives a special little snarky title to these supporters of his.

You sound jealous.


So as far as anyone outside of this little clicque can determine, everyone involved shares the fundamental belief that the CC should not exist. If you guys didn't want that perception, you should have said so. Because the logical deduction is that an organization based, by all outward appearances, on support for someone's ideas, supports those ideas.

And this may very well be their larger problem. They are so willing to see things the way they want, that they refuse to even listen to what people are saying, even if those people happen to have had direct first hand involvement in what they're talking about. Oh look... you're doing it again.


Oh, you mean because you were violating the trust placed in you and didn't want to get stopped...

How noble!

Changing my subtitle to Rebel Alliance ensures my access? The establishment of our means to control our subtitle took approximately 5 minutes. This "violation of trust" did not occur. In no way have I damaged the server, the community itself, etc. In no way have I lowered the security of the server or the community itself. All that I did was give myself and others who would like it, a means to change their subtitle. Such "rules" were never established in the trust of ensuring the server. In fact, had someone come to me and asked for such a change independent of this whole nonsense, I would have had no problem giving it to them say... 3 months ago or 6 months ago. Nor would I have an issue deleting or disabling access to an old account they can no longer get into. Nor would I have an issue changing their name. Nor do I see any problem with any of these very personal changes.


If you hate "elements" of the CC, then you can discuss those problems. But when you join an "organization" that, as far as anyone can tell, advocates the elimination of the CC, why would you be surprised that you'd be kicked?

Well maybe cause they weren't told such things when they signed up... maybe because such things are not true. I mentioned to another member that if they support my ideas, I do not understand why they would remain in the CC, it would seem quite meaningless. However, for some of the RA members in the CC, this did not seem to be the case. They had their own ideas... they wanted change, but not what I proposed. As far as what change they wanted... I suggest you ask them.

[Latin America]

Lysergic Acid Diethylamide
Posted: Jun 6 2005, 08:14 PM
It's always been about you (Novel Gentry), mate. It still is.


So you mean I have the Revel Allience logo because I am doing NG a favor? HELL NO, I DO IT BECUSE I AM SICK OF THE AUTHORITORAN SHIT IN CHE_LIVES!!!!!!

[RedStarOverChina]

With or without NovelGentry, I would still stand up and point out the silliness of this board.
In fact, I started broadcasting my dissentient opinion way before I know NovelGentry's position on it.

[encephalon]

this is all extremely petty and stupid. We should be ashamed, CC members and everyone else alike. This is destructive behavior, not constructive. You can't build on the ashes of this forum if it ends. And yet you continually spam and engage in destructive behavior nonetheless.

This is sad.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by encephalon
This is sad.

That it is...but don't forget stupid -- a word that would seem very useful in this context.

I have yet to see a single statement by anyone in the "I hate the CC" alliance that was not (1) incoherent; (2) unrealistic; and/or (3) overflowing with personal resentments of (largely imaginary) "mistreatment".

It seems to me that the "I hate the CC" alliance is down to a very limited number of choices...

1. You can continue to participate in discussions as regular members of this board.

--but if threads like this one (and many others) keep appearing, we're probably going to start trashing them as soon as they're posted.

2. You can collectively start a new board and set it up any way you like (and can agree on).

--but it will be very small and if there are no interesting discussions then it will stay very small.

3. You can do both...and that might be the optimum choice. You'd participate constructively in discussions here and also have a board where you could vent your spleen at the CC or particular administrators/moderators that arouse your ire.

--but I will be personally disappointed if there's not a "Why I Hate Redstar2000" thread...since so "many" boards have had them. :)

By this point, your extravagant rhetoric has, I think, alienated everyone except those who are part of your "alliance"...so any ideas that you might further suggest are likely to be summarily rejected because of their source alone.

I agree -- that's not "fair". But it's the logical outcome of the hostility that you've projected.

You have treated us as "enemies"...which pretty much rules out friendship.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[bed_of_nails]

:angry: I asked that everyone planning on expressing dissent did so in an organized, non-emotional manner. Is that so hard?

I am tired of someone getting offended and immediately making a thread where they scream "HOW COULD YOU FUCKING DO THIS TO ME!!!!!!!".

If you wish to have your opinions taken seriously, you must express them rationally.

[Holocaustpulp]

THE CC SHOULD NOT BAN MEMBERS FOR IT SHOULD FULLY SHOW THAT REVLEFT.COM IS A DEMOCRATIC AND EQUAL SITE, NOT ONE OF REPRESSION THAT FALTERS AT SUGGESTIONS OF CHANGE. HOW DO MODERATORS HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO DO THIS? WHERE IS OUR LEFTIST COMPNAIONSHIP?

- HOLOCAUSTPULP (ENRAGED)

[Hiero]

Are you playing Star Wars or some shit?

[anomaly]

What the hell is the rebel alliance? NG, what do you guys believe, what are you for and against?

And to get a balanced view of things, redstar, what's so bad about this alliance?

[encephalon]

but I will be personally disappointed if there's not a "Why I Hate Redstar2000" thread...since so "many" boards have had them.

I looked up "I hate redstar2000" on google and found nothing. Liar!

On the upside though, I looked up plain old "redstar2000" and found a host of hateful stuff. Most of it has long since been deleted from the servers they were on, though, and I only get to see clippings. They're amusing, nonetheless.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 11:38 PM
What the hell is the rebel alliance? NG, what do you guys believe, what are you for and against?

And to get a balanced view of things, redstar, what's so bad about this alliance?
I'm afraid that you have some reading to do...in the Chit-Chat forum, for one. Also, did you read this whole thread? And I believe there's at least one other thread like it in this forum.

Insofar as the dispute can be reduced to unemotional terms, NG's proposal is to abolish the Commie Club.

But just saying that really doesn't convey the enormous amount of emotional display that's taken place...see the post above by Holocaustpulp to get an idea of what's been going on.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Guest1]

Revleft always needs change. That's what the cc is here for, because it needs to always evolve and grow.

But it certainly does not need immature gameplaying instead of discussion.

Basically it all comes down to this: is hacking the board constructive, open discussion? Absolutely not. Hence, I no longer give a fuck whether you think CC represents the spirit of constructive, open discussion, and neither should anyone else.

Even if I agreed with any of your ideas, your childish actions make it impossible to take you seriously. Justify all you want, but there was a trust you betrayed, and that's that. No matter what your ideas are, they are irrelevant now, you overstepped your bounds and attacked the server. Every day you are here is an act of infinite kindness on the part of the CC and the admins, who would have been perfectly within their bounds to ban you on the spot. Especially since you continued to have access and make changes to the server after your access was revoked.

You are now way beyond any of the simple board issues, and into territory of being nothing less than a threat to this site.

[Jersey Devil]

Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 07:54 PM
like the vast majority of members of this forum, intelligent, young people
Very incorrect.

[Black Dagger]

I agree with C y M. I was sympathetic to you (NG), and the RA more generally, not in support of abolition, but of reform. The childish rants decrying gross-persecutions and rabbles of irrational/emotive posts made in Chit-Chat and in some cases in the CC itself has killed this sympathy. In terms of your future status, i'm against your banning, purely because of your value as knowledgeable member, but your insistence on exploiting your former powers- in the face of requests to desist- not only served to inflame the anti-RA feeling, which lead to an emotive crack-down on all involved, but will in all likelihood lead to a ban, for you and maybe even some of the other members of the RA.

That is a shit solution. Fracturing revleft, the board is going/has already, lost valuable members, and for what? The creation of a mini-revleft forum for the RA? With 25-30 active members? I can understand your position in regards to wanting change in the structure of the board, but the way you broached this change was destructive, divisive, and at times overly emotive.

[NovelGentry]

Basically it all comes down to this: is hacking the board constructive, open discussion? Absolutely not. Hence, I no longer give a fuck whether you think CC represents the spirit of constructive, open discussion, and neither should anyone else.

AHAHAHAH "hacking" -- you kids crack me up. CyM, if I'm not mistaken, you're the reason I got server access to begin with. I never "hacked" the server, I was given the password because I helped take care of it, remember?


Especially since you continued to have access and make changes to the server after your access was revoked.

I make no such changes to the server. My control is limited to a varchar(128) in the DB (at least I'm guessing it's 128). In fact, my control over this is actually by default a function of the board.


You are now way beyond any of the simple board issues, and into territory of being nothing less than a threat to this site.

I've never been a threat to this site, and will continue to be a non-threat, outside of possibly making some of it's members pissed off enough to leave.. but then again, I don't really feel I'm the one doing that... seems to me they leave not because of what I do, but because of what others do.

[Guest1]

Yes, I was the one who vouched for you.

You were clearly given a mandate to deal solely with the technical upkeep of the server, nothing more. Overstepping those bounds, and using the server to gain access to things only an admin is permitted to do despite not being an admin yourself is in my books, hacking.

I don't care how you did it.

I haven't been here for 2 weeks, so I don't know, or care, what led to your actions. I have gathered a little bit of what you were trying to accomplish, and all of it is meaningless to me. It is what you did that truly irks me.

[encephalon]

AHAHAHAH "hacking" -- you kids crack me up. CyM, if I'm not mistaken, you're the reason I got server access to begin with. I never "hacked" the server, I was given the password because I helped take care of it, remember?

I make no such changes to the server. My control is limited to a varchar(128) in the DB (at least I'm guessing it's 128). In fact, my control over this is actually by default a function of the board.


Before your access was revoked, you created a script allowing such access, with clear intent to use it after you are no longer supposed to be able to do so. This is a sincere breach of trust on your behalf.

I agreed with you to an extent, but many of the others are right: your breach of trust has largely made your arguments meaningless, and the constant spamming and insults others are spewing forth in the name of the "RA" discredits the argument even moreso, especially since you've created a forum to enact your plans yet spam this one nonetheless.

This went from being a discussion about the structure of the board itself to petty, meaningless pseudo-revolutionary banter. This is destructive, not constructive.

[redstar2000]

Congratulations to NG & all the "I hate the CC" folks.

They have their own message board now.

So far, it seems mostly to ***** about RevLeft...but that's understandable.

No thread about me so far...but I was pleased to be labeled "RedTsar2000" in a couple of posts.

That was very witty. :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[bed_of_nails]

Yes, I found that rather funny.

Yes, most of the people who are joining start with "I hate RL!!!". We are encouraging discussions on actual topics of importance though.

[Urban Rubble]

but I was pleased to be labeled "RedTsar2000" in a couple of posts.


In all fairness, ElijahCraig came up with that one in a PM to me about a year ago :lol:

We actually considered starting a fake profile with that name.

[Jersey Devil]

Originally posted by Urban [email protected] 8 2005, 04:54 AM

but I was pleased to be labeled "RedTsar2000" in a couple of posts.


In all fairness, ElijahCraig came up with that one in a PM to me about a year ago :lol:

We actually considered starting a fake profile with that name.
Yeah, what ever happened to that fine gentleman?

[Palmares]

Kinda didn't come back (much) after being restricted.

And something noone seems to understand:


Originally posted by Cthenthar
... technically this is Malte's property, and he is entitled to safeguard it in various ways by the very virtue of him investing so much into it.

The fact is, we neither own, nor are responsible to this board as much as Malte is. Until we all put an equal amount of money and time, among others things, into this board like he does, I really don't think we are in any position to completely (which is the operative word) restructure his board.

Fundamentally, we have to negotiate with him: as in, something that is actually possible as compared to what I have just mentioned.

[apathy maybe]

I demand some recognition!!!1!1! ! ! !! 11. I was fighting (well more just doing nothing actually, but that doesn't distract from my point) for reform long before any of this cropped up. I left the CC because it was working unfairly towards certain members of the board. I have had stuff in my sig for ages.

I don't think that NovelGentry should have anything, beyond a minor slap on the wrist, happen to him. He didn't do anything "wrong" beyond use privileges in a way that was constructed as misuse.

If he left things on the server after his privileges were revoked then yes bigger punishment should happen, but four warning points and four weeks suspension or a ban is not the answer. Nor is nothing. I thus call for the poll in the CC be scrapped and a new one with the option of a lesser punishment (or two lesser punishments) be added.

[El_Revolucionario]

I joined RA !

:D

[encephalon]

I joined RA !

I'm sorry. I hope you get better soon.

[El_Revolucionario]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 10:22 AM

I joined RA !

I'm sorry. I hope you get better soon.
I hope you stop acting like an immature bastard. I put the link to Rebel Alliance in my sig, and today I looked and I discovered it had been changed to "monkey alliance". :angry:

[El_Revolucionario]

Malte why are you closing and deleting my thread in the RevLeft "Members Forum"? You can not call it a "members forum" while not allowing discussion by the members.