The Fascist Threat

[Ace]

America, like most countries have different people with different beliefs, some ideologies like communism is an idea that seeks to protect and empower the people of the nation, then again there are ideas such as Nazism and fascism that seek to destroy the revolution of the people. If and when a "red revolution" were to occur, how would we respond to the threat of a "white" army? Such as Lenin and Trotsky fought during the revolution in Russia. For instance, while fighting the capitalist armies, could the revolutionist armies deal with the possibility of a national socialist revolution?

Trotsky wrote once that the revolution in America would be a lot less complicated then it was in Russia, but then again I doubt Trotsky understood the political climate we have in America, especially today. There are many factions out there (Royalists, nationalists, fascist's, national socialists, imperialists, etc..) that would seek to destroy the peoples revolution either with the capitalist armies, or both against the capitalists armies and red armies.

These romantic numbskulls would surely rise against a red revolution, so how could we stop such an obstacle, if in fact it were to occur? I think this subject, among various others are important things to consider. Any thoughts on this matter would be fantastic, thanks!

[Sa'd al-Bari]

You must rally, mobilize, organize and arm the masses in order to crush the reactionary forces. Reactionaries are paper tigers if the revolutionaries are able to get active or passive support from the masses. The strength of revolution to rally people behind its ideas and goals should not be underestimated. It can very well overpower the reactionaries and their forces.

Granted that the proper measures are taken to organize and arm the masses, and that it is done properly I don’t think we should worry about this too much. I think history has shown that when the masses are armed against reactionaries, the reactionaries loose. Russia and China are great examples.

[RASH chris]

There is no national socialist threat in the United States. Thier numbers are growing, but not at any rate which is either suprising or alarming. I would say that the ammount of resistance from openly fascist/national socialist/monarchist groups would be slim to none. Most of those groups would probably just direct thier people to join the state's army. There will never be popular support for such groups in the US.

[anomaly]

Fascist numbers in most countries are extremely small. We need only a united socialist force to exterminate their goals. Politically, they pose no threat, and militarily, they would likely ally themselves with the capitalists during a revolution. Basically, that just means we'd be fighting a very slightly larger force. In short, there really is no fascist threat.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by anomaly
In short, there really is no fascist threat.

I disagree.

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=35882

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Vanguard1917]

History has taught us that fascism arises out of class struggle. It arises out of the weakness of the capitalist class in suppressing the workers' movement through the use of conventional means (i.e. the state under a cloak of parliamentary democracy). The capitalist class supports the fascists because fascism appears to be the only force strong enough to crush the workers' movement; look at Nazi Germany, fascist Italy and Franco's Spain - they were all initially supported by the ruling classes in their country (and the ruling classes abroad), with a strong base in the petit-bourgeoisie and the lumpenproletariat, as the only solution to crushing the rising socialist movement.

So I do not see how there could be a fascist threat in today's climate, simply due to the fact that there is no intense class struggle in any advanced capitalist country to be crushed - hence no need for such extreme measures on behalf of the ruling class. Why would the capitalists need fascism when bourgeois democracy is already doing the job in pacifiying the workers?

Don't focus on a "fascist threat" - it does not exist. Focus your energies on things that exist: capitalist exploitation, imperialist domination, lack of development in the underdeveloped world, etc. When resistance to such things begins, a counter fascist force is likely to show up - so we will have to be ready to fight it. But a fight against fascism is a fight against the bourgeoisie - it is NOT a fight against some loonies on the political fringes. Our task is a lot harder than that.

[OleMarxco]

So what? What the hell do two articles on "Christian Facism" prove? Are you nuts, ol'mandi? Tehm'darn christians are weasily 'jus as much as a threath as of a carnivore...but they canst still be beheaded with a trusty spear trough their bullocks! :D

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Vanguard1917
So I do not see how there could be a fascist threat in today's climate, simply due to the fact that there is no intense class struggle in any advanced capitalist country to be crushed - hence no need for such extreme measures on behalf of the ruling class. Why would the capitalists need fascism when bourgeois democracy is already doing the job in pacifying the workers?

A good question.

One possible explanation is that the modern bourgeoisie anticipates trouble before it arises. Their faith in bourgeois "democracy" may be waning (some of the secular neo-cons are already openly hostile).

Try and look at things through "their eyes" -- wouldn't a more or less open corporate despotism mixed with a generous amount of evangelical obscurantism be more useful to them now than old-fashioned bourgeois "democracy"?

Don't overlook a very important part of the Christian fascist message: wealth is a sign of "God's approval"!

And don't forget the American ruling class has lots of wars on its agenda...wouldn't Christian fascism with its hyper-military bias be very useful for that purpose?

And finally it's been widely noted that the United States has been "drifting" in the direction of fascism (with ups and downs) since 1945. It may be that at some point in the near future, that "drift" will become a drive.

American clerical fascism won't look much like Nazi Germany...that's true. We probably won't see a "Christian S.A." marching in the streets or beating up atheists.

(One thing they might do is muster up a few hundred or even a few thousand people to gather around your house and "pray for you" -- how much of that could you tolerate before you'd have to move? :o)

The Christian fascists are no longer "fringe loonies" in the United States...they are big and significant players.

How significant is yet to be seen...but I think the threat is real.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[red_orchestra]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 06:27 AM
Fascist numbers in most countries are extremely small. We need only a united socialist force to exterminate their goals. Politically, they pose no threat, and militarily, they would likely ally themselves with the capitalists during a revolution. Basically, that just means we'd be fighting a very slightly larger force. In short, there really is no fascist threat.
Fascism is growing from several different sources. Hate groups have been on a steady rise since 9/11 and the radical religious right has made BIG inroads in the deep south. These groups are extreme right-- and are Fascist! Republicans are considered to be Neo-Imperialists...still, they contributing to the growth of Fascism. There is a serious and growing threat....

[Gust]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 12:46 AM
America, like most countries have different people with different beliefs, some ideologies like communism is an idea that seeks to protect and empower the people of the nation, then again there are ideas such as Nazism and fascism that seek to destroy the revolution of the people. If and when a "red revolution" were to occur, how would we respond to the threat of a "white" army? Such as Lenin and Trotsky fought during the revolution in Russia. For instance, while fighting the capitalist armies, could the revolutionist armies deal with the possibility of a national socialist revolution?

Trotsky wrote once that the revolution in America would be a lot less complicated then it was in Russia, but then again I doubt Trotsky understood the political climate we have in America, especially today. There are many factions out there (Royalists, nationalists, fascist's, national socialists, imperialists, etc..) that would seek to destroy the peoples revolution either with the capitalist armies, or both against the capitalists armies and red armies.

These romantic numbskulls would surely rise against a red revolution, so how could we stop such an obstacle, if in fact it were to occur? I think this subject, among various others are important things to consider. Any thoughts on this matter would be fantastic, thanks!
We would have to unite all of the Revoultionary "Red" parties togethor in order to stand against the Capitalists and Facist/Nazis

[RedSkinheadUltra]

I just have to ask...What are you guys talking about when you warn of a threat from "royalists" and "monarchists" in the United States?

The US has never had a monarchy or a royal family.

[red_orchestra]

Royalists really only exist in ex-Imperialist countries. Canada is one. British Monarchy really isn't a threat to anyones way of life...I wouldn't be too concerned with them as we have much BIGGER problems at hand.

[OleMarxco]

You know what? People settin' up a camp in front of my house to pray for my atheism, for what...or, agnosticism in my case, if they would do that, then I'd point out the very material and non-spiritual possibility of an stationary automatic machin-gun post beside the entrance of my door. We'll see who gets farthest: Agnostic bullets or Gnostic words. I bet a 100 grand on it's NOT the latter, atleast - And that's all the threath THEY can caugh up, atleast...unless they become HARDCORE!

If so.... All I have to say is, WEEEE! http://e.deviantart.com/emoticons/d/dance.gif

[RedSkinheadUltra]

I see. I thought they were referring to inside the US.

Monarchies are certainly an obstacle to progress in the Middle East (where a few elite families run the show and control the oil) and in places like Nepal (where there's a Maoist insurgency.)

[RASH chris]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 06:32 PM
I just have to ask...What are you guys talking about when you warn of a threat from "royalists" and "monarchists" in the United States?

The US has never had a monarchy or a royal family.
There are actually monarchist groups within the US. But they're a pretty big joke, and very obscure.