To the opposition

[Deepest Red]

Ok, to all of you who disagree with communism I just want you to state the reason why from this list:
In trying to attain communism it is inevitable that a police state will ensue. (Or other situation in which freedoms are massively curtailed). I have no problem with the ideal of communism if it could work (though it won't).
Regardless of the 'getting there' stages, capitalism is a superior system to communism anyway.
I am rich and want to stay that way.
Communism would never work and is just an excuse for dictators to get into power.
Communism 'is not natural'.
Religious reasons.
I am perfectly happy with the current state of the world and just want to get on with my own life.
Human nature will prevent it from ever happening.
The USSR, China and the DPRK are prime examples of communism, no sane person can support these states.

(I'll even let you elaborate aswell if you wish, I really am that kind)

Thanks :)

[Professor Moneybags]

In trying to attain communism it is inevitable that a police state will ensue. (Or other situation in which freedoms are massively curtailed). I have no problem with the ideal of communism if it could work (though it won't).

This is package dealing. I believe the first sentence is true, but not the second.


Regardless of the 'getting there' stages, capitalism is a superior system to communism anyway.

^ That one.


Communism would never work and is just an excuse for dictators to get into power.

^ That one too.

Let me add one more :

It's slavery. Sometimes overt, sometimes disguised as something else.

[Che1990]

It's slavery

:blink: yes communism is slavery...

So what does that make capitalism then?

[Deepest Red]

"package dealing" :lol:
Well I suppose you're right, I could have improved it a bit.

I'm asking this just to get a general idea of the nature of the opposition on the board, nearly everyone who I know in person who is not a fan thinks that it's "a good idea which doesn't work in practice" or something similar, rather than that capitalism is actually better than communism as a system, if it was made to work.

[Clarksist]

Originally posted by Professor [email protected] 3 2005, 01:43 PM

In trying to attain communism it is inevitable that a police state will ensue. (Or other situation in which freedoms are massively curtailed). I have no problem with the ideal of communism if it could work (though it won't).

This is package dealing. I believe the first sentence is true, but not the second.


Regardless of the 'getting there' stages, capitalism is a superior system to communism anyway.

^ That one.


Communism would never work and is just an excuse for dictators to get into power.

^ That one too.

Let me add one more :

It's slavery. Sometimes overt, sometimes disguised as something else.
As Che1990 said, if communism is slavery what in the world is capitalism.

Even though most people after WWII disliked Russia because they thought that communists were "lazy", and that it was an excuse not to work.

Now a question for everyone, why does everyone think communism = marxism? What if there are those (like me) who don't support "getting there" stages? Socialism makes it too easy for dictators to oppress and exploit the people, so that is why I only support communism and not marxist stages leading up to it.

[NovelGentry]

Now a question for everyone, why does everyone think communism = marxism? What if there are those (like me) who don't support "getting there" stages? Socialism makes it too easy for dictators to oppress and exploit the people...

We Marxists consider a certain level of idealism in such people. Idealism is nice, but it's not what makes the engine run if you catch what I'm saying.

What it really comes down to is the origin and use of the word communist. It would seem Marx sorta hijacked the word with "The Communist Manifesto." Certainly it is obvious now that not all communists think Marx was right. Fair enough, I have no problem making the distinction that you can be a communist and not a Marxist -- but I do question your nature of thinking if this is the case.


so that is why I only support communism and not marxist stages leading up to it.

You don't really have to "support" the Marxist stages, you either think they need to exist or not, that he was right or wrong, not that we should or shouldn't. If Marx is right, we will not be capable of destroying the state during any transitional phase, and we certainly won't be capable of achieving "From eac according to..." immediately, regardless of any attempts to and/or our support for it.

Indeed he believes the conditions that bare it into existence will still be present, and thus, even if we abolish it, such a thing would reform so long as those conditions are still in place.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by Comrade [email protected] 3 2005, 12:35 PM
Ok, to all of you who disagree with communism I just want you to state the reason why from this list: In trying to attain communism it is inevitable that a police state will ensue. (Or other situation in which freedoms are massively curtailed). I have no problem with the ideal of communism if it could work (though it won't).
Regardless of the 'getting there' stages, capitalism is a superior system to communism anyway.
I am rich and want to stay that way.
Communism would never work and is just an excuse for dictators to get into power.
Communism 'is not natural'.
Religious reasons.
I am perfectly happy with the current state of the world and just want to get on with my own life.
Human nature will prevent it from ever happening.
The USSR, China and the DPRK are prime examples of communism, no sane person can support these states.
(I'll even let you elaborate aswell if you wish, I really am that kind)

Thanks :)
I'll take the first one with a little modification.

The police state ALWAYS happens. Why? There is always some stalinist who is just a little more ruthless than the intellectuals smart. Ruthless Stalinist beats smart intellectuals all the time.

[CrazyModerate]

I don't oppose the member's of this website, the member's of this website oppose me.

Honestly, this website is as bad as themightyright.com for treating people of slightly different political ideology.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 04:21 AM
I don't oppose the member's of this website, the member's of this website oppose me.

Honestly, this website is as bad as themightyright.com for treating people of slightly different political ideology.
You know I was thinking the exact same thing. I thought this was about having an openminded look on things and excepting others ideas that may veer off slightly then what you guys believe. I have nothing against any of you (just like th eguy I am quoting) but I just don't understand why you people put down others that might be a smidge conservative.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

What you are comming to realize is dark age thinking is alive and well in communist intellectuals too.

[CrazyModerate]

Not all communists are close minded. Fewer communists are close minded than the amount close minded conservatives and capitalists. By far. But there are still enough close minded communists on this website to make me feel uncomfortable.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by [email protected] 5 2005, 03:45 PM
What you are comming to realize is dark age thinking is alive and well in communist intellectuals too.
Yeah you'd think that they would TRY to be progressive and turn away from the dark ages way of thinking but no of course not.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by C_Rasmussen+Jun 6 2005, 04:03 AM--> (C_Rasmussen @ Jun 6 2005, 04:03 AM)
[email protected] 5 2005, 03:45 PM
What you are comming to realize is dark age thinking is alive and well in communist intellectuals too.
Yeah you'd think that they would TRY to be progressive and turn away from the dark ages way of thinking but no of course not. [/b]
:lol:

Please elaborate on the 'close-mindedness' of the revleft membership.
Moreover, what is the 'dark ages way of thinking' to which you refer? On what are you basing your assertion that most revleft members are not 'progressive'? On what grounds are you an informed judge of how 'progressive' the revleft membership is?

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by Black Dagger+Jun 5 2005, 07:25 PM--> (Black Dagger @ Jun 5 2005, 07:25 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 04:03 AM

[email protected] 5 2005, 03:45 PM
What you are comming to realize is dark age thinking is alive and well in communist intellectuals too.
Yeah you'd think that they would TRY to be progressive and turn away from the dark ages way of thinking but no of course not.
:lol:

Please elaborate on the 'close-mindedness' of the revleft membership.
Moreover, what is the 'dark ages way of thinking' to which you refer? On what are you basing your assertion that most revleft members are not 'progressive'? On what grounds are you an informed judge of how 'progressive' the revleft membership is? [/b]
Whats so funny about what I said? I was just fucking responding to what ahhh_money_is_comfort was saying.

[Black Dagger]

Whats so funny about what I said? I was just fucking responding to what ahhh_money_is_comfort was saying.

I found your opinion of the revleft membership- funny, considering my understanding of the term 'progressive', and my knowledge of the revleft membership.

Now please answer my questions :)

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 5 2005, 07:36 PM

Whats so funny about what I said? I was just fucking responding to what ahhh_money_is_comfort was saying.

I found your opinion of the revleft membership- funny, considering my understanding of the term 'progressive', and my knowledge of the revleft membership.

Now please answer my questions :)
Well the closedmindedness stems from the fact that they don't except a slightly conservative view without making a big deal about it. I meant progressive as in moving away from the dark age mentality. When I say dark age mentality I mean that of the closedminded nature. There are you fucking happy I answered your questions to the best of my knowledge.

[Black Dagger]

Well the closedmindedness stems from the fact that they don't except a slightly conservative view without making a big deal about it.

Well, the reason why we don't "except a slightly conservative view" is because this is a board for revolutionary leftists, not 'conservatives' or 'slight conservatives', better termed reactionaries. There's nothing 'closeminded' about not accepting reactionary ideas, we have zero tolerance for capitalism/pro-capitalist arguments, for homophobia, sexism or racism, those are reactionary ideas/arguments/points of view. The purpose of this board is to encourage and provide a space for dicussion and debate between revolutionary leftists. 'Conservative' ideas are not conducive to such debate.



When I say dark age mentality I mean that of the closedminded nature.

As i said, i don't see a problem with being 'closeminded' with regards to reactionary ideas. What's more 'progressive' than advocating a revolutionary change within society? The abolition of capitalism, classes and so forth?



There are you fucking happy I answered your questions to the best of my knowledge.

Very, thank you. :)

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 5 2005, 08:00 PM

Well the closedmindedness stems from the fact that they don't except a slightly conservative view without making a big deal about it.

Well, the reason why we don't "except a slightly conservative view" is because this is a board for revolutionary leftists, not 'conservatives' or 'slight conservatives', better termed reactionaries. There's nothing 'closeminded' about not accepting reactionary ideas, we have zero tolerance for capitalism/pro-capitalist arguments, for homophobia, sexism or racism, those are reactionary ideas/arguments/points of view. The purpose of this board is to encourage and provide a space for dicussion and debate between revolutionary leftists. 'Conservative' ideas are not conducive to such debate.



When I say dark age mentality I mean that of the closedminded nature.

As i said, i don't see a problem with being 'closeminded' with regards to reactionary ideas. What's more 'progressive' than advocating a revolutionary change within society? The abolition of capitalism, classes and so forth?



There are you fucking happy I answered your questions to the best of my knowledge.

Very, thank you. :)
Ok just wondering, thatnx for clearing that up :).

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by Black Dagger+Jun 5 2005, 08:25 PM--> (Black Dagger @ Jun 5 2005, 08:25 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 6 2005, 04:03 AM

[email protected] 5 2005, 03:45 PM
What you are comming to realize is dark age thinking is alive and well in communist intellectuals too.
Yeah you'd think that they would TRY to be progressive and turn away from the dark ages way of thinking but no of course not.
:lol:

Please elaborate on the 'close-mindedness' of the revleft membership.
Moreover, what is the 'dark ages way of thinking' to which you refer? On what are you basing your assertion that most revleft members are not 'progressive'? On what grounds are you an informed judge of how 'progressive' the revleft membership is? [/b]
I would like to eloborate on dark age thinking.

Scientific method is 1) observe 2) make a good guess about what you observe 3) see if your guesses fit with other things you never have seen before 4) make changes to your guess to include no observations 5) repeat 3 to 5.

A large portion of the 'intellecutal communist' here:

1) read it 2) believe it 3) defend it

They do 2 without questioning communist models of human behavior, anthropology, industrial engineering, management, and economics.

In essense Marx was right, eventhough he never managed an assembly line or had to make a manufacturing process improvement. He was a genius on production without ever having to manage a team to build something. He was an economic genius and squandered his own money. He was a genius in human behavior based on his own cultural prejudice.