You guys are too critical of Democrats...

[El_Revolucionario]

I used to be a regular on a dem site called Democratic Underground, and one thread was the "Political Compass" and the people there took the test and many were left-wing, most were -6 or -7 or -8 like alot of us here. There was also another thread called "Any socialists here?" and many people answered that thread with "I'm a democratic socialist" and "I'm a socialist". Most democrats there were pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, anti-war, anti-bush, pro-environment, etc.

[*Hippie*]

I agree, many dems are really socialist and communists who just have not recognized it yet or who are afraid to come out and admit to the world. We have to teach them to embrace their leftism and treasure it. It is a gift we are blessed with - the gift to help humanity and change the world.

[Phalanx]

Yes, it's because the word "Communism" is like saying a taboo. However, this does not mean all democrats are left-leaning or sympathizing. A large percentage are more like smack dab in the center.

[codyvo]

I've never been overly critical of democrats, in fact I myself was a democrat. No it has never been the democrats, it has been Democrats. The people are fine, well most of them, what we do not to excessively is critisize democratic politicians. The politicians are spineless, idiotic, drains on society. The politicians are in fact, so worthless, that I believe it would be best to try and persuade the democrats to come farther to the left, rather than to get them to run better politicians.

[NovelGentry]

Ask how many democrats would like to overthrow the government and destroy capitalism along with their "right to get rich."

[codyvo]

Well I fully understandyou, but it doesn't take much to turn a democrat into a social democrat, then a socialist and then a communist and then an anarcho-communist and then an anarchist and then a fascist super soldier!- I meant yeah, stop at anarchist.

[Red Robe Majere]

yes plz stop at anarchist or even before that. The dems are almost socialists but, they still want money. They still want capitalism. many of them would become socialists if we showed them what it was about but others will always want there money.

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 10:43 PM
I used to be a regular on a dem site called Democratic Underground, and one thread was the "Political Compass" and the people there took the test and many were left-wing, most were -6 or -7 or -8 like alot of us here. There was also another thread called "Any socialists here?" and many people answered that thread with "I'm a democratic socialist" and "I'm a socialist". Most democrats there were pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, anti-war, anti-bush, pro-environment, etc.
I am still on Democratic Underground, and probably answered those threads you reference. While it is true that some Democrats identify themselves as socialists (or communists) of one stripe or another, they refuse to break -- either politically or organizationally -- with the bourgeois wing of the party. That is, these supposed socialists and communists are either hypocrites or their self-identification is self-delusion.

Miles

[rikaguilera]

When speaking of a Democrat, and talking about a politician, then I can see how the insults will come. A political Democrat in Washington is really not much different than a Republican. There are always those who are a bit more to the left, and a bit more to the right, but they are politicians first. That just means that they are out for themselves (first), then out for their electorate second. I have seen the current democrats as a little on the gutless side when going against the repubs on any given issue. I have to admit that Dean (as the democratic leader) has had the biggest balls by calling others out, and calling people and subjects for what they are. But still a little slow in progress toward aiding the republicans out of their seats. So insults on that front may be worthy.
As far as Americans being Democrats,. Well, I think that some still only see two parties in America, and know that they do not share the ideals of repubs. So, they label themselves Democrats. Kind of the lesser of the two evils. Bring up communism, and the ultimate goal of a non-capitalist nation, and it is met with restraint. I see this due to a lack of knowledge on the subjects, and a mind fed bias toward thinking that communism is evil. Some open minded will see the light, but most do not take the time to really learn. I don't put down Democrats that much, because I do see some light in the eyes of a few,..
I do think that the farther right the republicans go, meaning the more radical christian right, then they will be shooting themselves in the foot. And as this happens, then maybe the country will go more towards our side or beliefs.
Of course this is all just my opinion, and may not mean much to some who don't see it as I do.

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Too critical of Democrats? I disagree completely, but let me explain.

I think it is important to acknowledge that the Democratic Party's membership is not one monolithic bloc of SUV-driving, bourgeois liberals. It is misleading to associate the rank-and-file and John Kerry as one and the same. Many Dems are not enthusiastic supporters of the so-called, "Right to Get Stinking, Fucking Rich at the Expense of Everyone Else."

There are pockets of Dems who still consider themselves "New Deal Democrats" or "Humphrey Democrats." These sub-cultures of the Democratic Party are a patchwork that blends liberalism with social democracy. These people, a minority granted, are not enthusiastic about the capitalist system. They may even be mildly to moderately unsatisfied with capitalism. These are people who believe human beings deserve more rights than what the sacred market thinks they are worth. These kinds of Democrats can become our allies.

But even these Democrats deserve harsh criticism from us. After all, they do slavishly fall into line behind imperialists like John Kerry. They have a lot of explaining to do, for their dubious party loyalties.

If we are successful, our criticism at very least can encourage the "left-wing" of the Dems to increasingly minimize their liberal tendencies and maximize their social democratic tendencies. At most, these individuals can also grasp the reformist weaknesses of social democracy and pull further left.

It just seems to me that "left-wing" Dems have the best potential for conversion to radical left politics, since we already have more in common than we often realize.

[KptnKrill]

Pfft, the democrats and republicans might as well be the same party.

[More Fire for the People]

The issue is that Democrats are reformist.

They either are conservatives, market-liberals, social-liberals, social-democrats, dreamy eyed utopians, or market socialist (at the farthest left one would assume)

They are not allies of the proletarian for two reasons:
(1) The predominant groups are conservatives, market-liberals, and social-liberals;
(2) They favour reform, anti-communism, and are against revolutionary action;

[Colombia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 02:05 PM
Pfft, the democrats and republicans might as well be the same party.
Both party's platforms are completely different from the other and promote different ideals. Can you elaborate as to why you feel this way?

[More Fire for the People]

They are both funded by corporations, which means no matter what their "social stance" is they are corporatist.

[codyvo]

Yes, both parties are funded by corporations, but the people who fall under either party are usually very differant from each other.

[OleMarxco]

Yeah...in LAYMAN TERMS. But when you take a look at real-politics, you will see that, foolishly and naively thought the opposite, of course, that BEING FUNDED BY CORPORATIONS means you're easily more RECEPTIVE TO GET BRIBED by LOBBYISTS and for such, the like. You become "sympathetic" to them, and throw down a few laws that aid 'em. Or else, they might..."cut off the donations", almost as if holding the party hostage. So in truth, meanwhile idealistically different, the republican party and the Democrat party becomes pretty indentical after a while - the burgerouise want to cover all their bets so that "who-ever gets eelected, you lose"! And they win :D

[wet blanket]

Originally posted by Colombia+Jun 2 2005, 02:45 PM--> (Colombia @ Jun 2 2005, 02:45 PM)
[email protected] 2 2005, 02:05 PM
Pfft, the democrats and republicans might as well be the same party.
Both party's platforms are completely different from the other and promote different ideals. Can you elaborate as to why you feel this way? [/b]
Both parties seem to act the same way... Once you look past the rhetoric, the two parties are almost indistinguishable.

[bolshevik butcher]

The problem is that both parties are funded by coroporations and rich individuals so they have a big say in the policies of the party.

[Clarksist]

Democrats should be converted. The fact that half of the US votes for the Democratic candidate shows that a lot of people in America are at least not so right wing.

But the thing I have against Democrats, is that they vote party line. Many Democrats are leftists, with the liberal idea (breaking down social barriers, etc.) but won't vote for anyone but a Democrat.

Or best chance at a good base, though, is converting the Left of the Democrats.

[resisting arrest with violence]

Get off the bandwagon of social demokkkracy! What are you some fucking sort of Hollywood star?

[Poum_1936]

THe Democratic party is still capitalist. The rank and file may have some socialist tendencies, but the leaders who are backed by big business sure as hell are not socialist.

Plus that buttfuck Kerry has a more aggressive anti Venezuela stance.

[Jersey Devil]

Originally posted by wet blanket+Jun 2 2005, 03:26 PM--> (wet blanket @ Jun 2 2005, 03:26 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 02:45 PM

[email protected] 2 2005, 02:05 PM
Pfft, the democrats and republicans might as well be the same party.
Both party's platforms are completely different from the other and promote different ideals. Can you elaborate as to why you feel this way?
Both parties seem to act the same way... Once you look past the rhetoric, the two parties are almost indistinguishable. [/b]
I take it by this you mean they vote the same way on the issues? If that is what you mean, then I sincerely suggest that you watch C-Span's coverage of the House and Senate.

[Vallegrande]

I think that they play on each other. The leadership goes back and forth from each party. Whichever side fucks up, the other takes advantage of the situation. It's a mud slinging game in my view.

I wonder when the day will be when both parties vote together to oust somebody, like our president, or to solve some issue, like stem cell research. Right now they are busy attacking each other.

[Jersey Devil]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 09:45 PM
I wonder when the day will be when both parties vote together to oust somebody, like our president, or to solve some issue, like stem cell research. Right now they are busy attacking each other.
This is a ludicrous notion with no factual backing. The fact is that they are forced to work with each other because the fact is that if they do not the other side will simply filibuster and make it impossible for legislation to be passed.

With regards to embryonic stem cell research, two bills have recently passed the House regarding that. One which, if it passes the Senate, will create a national registry for umbilical cord blood to be used for research passed the House with overwhelming bi-partisan support. The other, which will raise federal funding for embryonic stem cell research if passed, passed the House with bi-partisan support though not the 2/3's majority required to override Bush's veto power. I made a thread about it a short while ago.

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=35824

Again, I suggest you too watch C-Span's coverage of the House and Senate.

[redstar2000]

What seems to be most difficult for people to grasp is that when you observe mainstream "politics" in the U.S., you are watching a show.

It seems "real"...but the Superbowl is also "real" in the same way. The participants "play hard" and "try to win"...a football game.

Democrats and Republicans "play hard" and "try to win"...leading positions in the ruling class.

But we are not in the game. We cannot go out on the field and sack the quarterback. We cannot have any meaningful effect on which particular vampires ultimately impose their will on the rest of the ruling class.

The ordinary people who identify with the Democrats or the Republicans are simply fans...that is, suckers.

Now, what can you do with suckers? You can expose the con...and we should all do that whenever we can.

But don't expect any gratitude...people are often embarrassed when they learn they've been played for suckers. And they get pissed off with people who inform them of that in undeniable terms.

In many ways, mainstream American "politics" is really a set of superstitious beliefs -- "America is a free country", "American democracy really works", "our elections are honest and fair", etc.

That is all bullshit.

But when we say so, look out! :o

It's not a "welcome message".

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[farleft]

Originally posted by El_Re[email protected] 2 2005, 02:43 AM
I used to be a regular on a dem site called Democratic Underground, and one thread was the "Political Compass" and the people there took the test and many were left-wing, most were -6 or -7 or -8 like alot of us here. There was also another thread called "Any socialists here?" and many people answered that thread with "I'm a democratic socialist" and "I'm a socialist". Most democrats there were pro-choice, pro-gay marriage, anti-war, anti-bush, pro-environment, etc.
These people are reformists.
These are people like RESPECT and new labour of the UK.
They are certainly left of the likes of G Bush but these people are a threat to the communist objective as all forms of capitalism are.

[Vallegrande]

I saw Bush kissing a test tube baby as his last stand in fighting stem cell research.
But the baby didn't look so healthy, probably because the laboratory didn't give it the right nutrition (definitely because it is in a test tube). The baby already had old people wrinkles.

[metalwraith]

Too critical of democrats? When did this happen? The democrats are just another cog in the capitalist machine. There are no good cogs or bad cogs, just one evil machine.
To be fair, most people who vote democrat have a slight socialist P.O.V., but the party itself is pretty much seperated from the republicans by a wet fart. And towing the party line blindly makes you undeserving of any respect.
Perhaps one day enough criticism of the democrats will lead to the left leaning democrats actually thinking about what they vote for? ;)