Elections in Germany

[Edelweiss]

So...I have pretty mixed emotions now. My favored party the PDS (reform-communists) is out of the parliament because they got less than 5% of the votes. That's for shure now and it's makes me fucking angry. Good news are that the Social Democrat/Green coalition can probaply continue their work (exit polls are still too close to call). Although the Red-Green coalition basicly was a reactionary bag of shit (with some minor exeptions), I'm somehow glad that they can continue, because they are still better for the political climate in Germany than the conservatives. But the Bundestag will be without any leftist opposition now, and that's not good...

[new democracy]

i heard that the communists are making fun of other rivals in their website.

[MJM]

Get prepared for a selection farce like the US had.
I don't think the left and greens will pull it off.

[John Difool]

On another board, an american guy, very pro war against irak, anti palestinian and all ... posted a thread about how the filthy commie anti american anti-freedom Schröder/Fisher coalition had bitten the dust, thanks to wide popular support to his opponent, and how Wash DC now had another stauch allie in Europe
Proof Schroeder had lost ? "His adversary has declared he had won "... :)

someone posted that in answer :D
http://www.umkc.edu/imc/truman.jpg

(Edited by John Difool at 5:32 pm on Sep. 23, 2002)

[komsomol]

Yeah that was extremely funny that, has he ever heard the expression "don't count yout chickens before they hatch"? Anyways lets be happy that Shroeder is actually on the left, however small that leaning is. And no leftist opposition? I guess they all voted for Shroeder beacause they were scared the Christian Democrats would get in.

[peaccenicked]

It is interesting what is happening in Germany, the feeling that the government is left already will soak up votes that other more principled left wingers would get.
However, I am glad that the US admin will not (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A53247-2002Sep22.html) be too happy with the result.

[Conghaileach]

Wasn't Shroeder the person who likened Dubya to Hitler? Fucking legendary.

[Edelweiss]

I'm very sceptical about the leftist rhetoric of Schröder during his campaign. He was more on a neo-liberal Tony Blair course until the hot phase of his campaign began. I don't believe him, I think he'll soon announce a change in German foreign politics concerning an Iraq war.

[komsomol]

Quote: from CiaranB on 4:54 pm on Sep. 24, 2002
Wasn't Shroeder the person who likened Dubya to Hitler? Fucking legendary.


It was his foriegn minister I believe.

[Edelweiss]

Quote: from MOLOCH on 10:59 pm on Sep. 24, 2002

Quote: from CiaranB on 4:54 pm on Sep. 24, 2002
Wasn't Shroeder the person who likened Dubya to Hitler? Fucking legendary.


It was his foriegn minister I believe.

No, it was the minister of justice Däubler-Gmelin, who already resigned, who said in connection with the Iraq war: "Bush wants to divert from his inner political problems. That's a popular method. Hitler already did that."

[Anonymous]

Havent the greens threatened to be more pro-American.

I was watching this program on TV and this American diplomat starts talking to these German students

'y'know Germany is of course America's favourite European nation'

What is all that about? Do Americans expect gratitude from after the war? Ill hand back over to Malte now

[peaccenicked]

Airstrip britain is the US favourite.
Germany is not so far away but it is closer to France than Britain.
France is the most Anti american of governments and nations outside Cuba and the worn torn regions of the world.
It is strange how many goverments has to decieve the people with psuedo left credentials and then spend the rest of their term in office sucking up tho the IMF.
If this is the 'realpolitk', why not be honest?
That may have something to do with cowardice.

[Edelweiss]

Quote: from peaccenicked on 12:35 am on Sep. 25, 2002
Germany is not so far away but it is closer to France than Britain.

I wouldn't say that Germany is closer to France than Britain any longer. A good indicator for that is that for decades the first state visit of the Kanzler after an election was France. Now it's Britain.

[peaccenicked]

you might be right.
I am basing some of my thinking on this old article.

The New Troika
Russian President Boris Yeltsin is certain that the meeting of the Russia-France-Germany triangular pact will mark the start of a truly multipolar world.

"The great European troika has got off to a successful start, here, in Russia," exclaimed Yeltsin after his first informal meeting with President Jacques Chirac and Chancellor Helmut Kohl in Bor, near Moscow, on March 26.

Speaking at the final news conference, he voiced confidence that: "This will indeed be the starting point of a multipolar world. It won't start from a single state, but from several states, several leaders." Defining the significance of the meeting, Yeltsin could barely contain himself: "For us Russians, this is a joyful day, a day of inspiration." He went on to stress that "the leaders of Russia, France and Germany met as friends," who "always have plenty to say to each other."

The practical matters involved in trilateral relations were extensively discussed. Plans to build a European transport aircraft for the 21st century based on the Russian-Ukrainian An-70 were reviewed, and the leaders of the troika agreed to speed up the planned Paris-Berlin-Warsaw-Moscow transport corridor. "In the long term it will reach Yekaterinburg and on into the Urals," said Yeltsin. The talks also considered cooperation in space and setting up a special rescue unit to combat natural and technological disasters.

The three leaders also discussed a wide range of joint projects in the cultural and humanitarian fields, including holding a Moscow-Bonn-Paris exhibition and setting up a university of the 21st century involving the three countries. It was also decided to assemble a group of historians to prepare a common, university-level history textbook of the 20th century.'' from a compilation of Rueter articles.

I' ll will do more investigation on this.

[peaccenicked]

Germany seems to playing a double game. Like most of the leading advocates of a multipolar world. Appease the US and regroup against the US, while trying to drag Britain out of the special relationship.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journa...,798291,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,7792,798291,00.html)

[evil chris]

german election? who cares?
Same old false Democracy, same old false promises,same old false media debate as a minority of a country selects another small elite who they belive will keep them on the stright an narrow.
They invaribly fail to do as that minority voter wants and they infuritate and offend the majority of the country with what ammounts to little more than a dictatorship.But it's cool coz in 5 years time they can elect another party, who say they won't be like the last lot - they will do what they say they will- honest.Only they can keep the economy going,protect us from "ramgaing crime" and STOP AMERICA ACTING UNILATRIALLY(we'd rather they's let us play - or atleast ask us first).
Yeah in 5 years time it'll all be sweet

[peaccenicked]

You have a point. Bourgeios elections are a sham and what we get is the dictatorship of the bourgeiosie, no matter who is in power.
German national interests as such are contradictory, as is all big nation interests, objectively they have to aquiesce to the US super power and compete with it at the same time. Some US think tanks see a possible Multipolar world as a threat. The more economically inclined suggest sometimes that America would be better off if Europe was one big client state.
The political machinations behind the scenes and in public all have these varied class interests as their guides.Nothing can be gained all at once.