Impeach Bush!

[vox]

I found this article (http://counterpunch.org/boyle0917.html) about the legality of many of Bush's actions to be very interesting. If what it says is true, and I believe that it is, then there is more than enough for people in the US to start talking about impeaching the appointed, though not elected, president.

For example:

"First, the Third Geneva Convention of 1949. I will not go through all of the arguments here but it is clear that just about everyone down in Guantanamo (not counting the guys who were picked up in Bosnia and basically kidnapped) but all those apprehended over in Afghanistan and Pakistan would qualify as prisoners of war within the meaning of the Third Geneva Convention of 1949, and therefore have all the rights of prisoners of war within the meaning of that convention. Right now however, as you know, all those rights are being denied. This is a serious war crime. And unfortunately President Bush, Jr. himself has incriminated himself under the Third Geneva Convention by signing the order setting up these military commissions. Not only has he incriminated himself under the Third Geneva Convention, but he has incriminated himself under the U.S. War Crimes Act of 1996 or so, signed into law by President Clinton and making it a serious felony for any United States citizen either to violate or order the violation of the Four Geneva Conventions of 1949." (Emphasis added)

Now that, to me, is very interesting. Grounds for impeachment? Sure sounds like it, doesn't it, folks?

Maybe you should ask your Congresspeople why they are supporting such a thing. Of course, I think you'd have a better chance of making snow angels in hell than of getting a straight reply from any of them, too.

vox

[andresG]

Vox,
I am printing that article up and handing it out to certain people that need convincing on why the "war on terrorism" is not justified.
Thanks for the amazing article.
Continue to bring up topics like this one.

[Valkyrie]

Great find!!! Hey, there use to be an on-line Impeachment petition going around in the first few weeks of Bush's election win. I think it has expired since than, but...... we should start a new one and see what happens with it. It would atleast be interesting to see how disgruntled the climate is. They are very easy to do and can be obtained from Petition.com or something like that. I'll check it out!

[bluerev002]

great article vox. i have stopped triying to convince ppl by handing things out. they will just throw them on the floor or tell you to shut up.

one more thing, were do you find all these things?

i have always said that they had no proof it was afganistan, i think i even said it here once or twice.
the planes crashed and bush just started pointing fingers and every one agreed. bush was never really popular when he first started but now, well you get the picture

[Xvall]

LMAO.
Impeach Bush!
Funny!

[vox]

"one more thing, were do you find all these things?"

I found this one through a guy I know in the UK, who found it through someone I don't know at all, and that is part of the reason I'm back here. The Web is too big, and there's too much information, for anyone to get all a relevant articles alone. Posting it here, 10, 20, maybe 30 more people will see it, and if they tell a few more people, and then those people tell a few more people.... You get the idea.

Just remember to attach the idea of impeachment to it. Before long, you might see in mentioned on CNN, and then you can smile and say, "Hey, I was a part of that."

As for handing things out to people, when they tell you to shut up, hand them another one. If they throw them all on the floor, pick them up and start over. That, I think, is an example of Ghandi's active, non-violent resistance. It takes self-control and a lot of strength, but anyone looking at the scene will think the other guy is a jerk and admire your fortitude. It's a win-win situation.

vox

[bluerev002]

sigh, if only you could live here and see these ppl. everyday i get my luch and sit on a table (this is at school of course). i guess i could call these my friends. nah i dont like em i only stay there for about 5mins to eat. every time i speak of bush and how he kill innocent civilians and how the presidents are all a bunch of *****es. they go. "but they didnt kill on purpose"

and yes maybe your right i should try it once again. maybe i should even join the school newspaper. by handing these things out maybe i could atleast reach one person who will find it more interesting than the dance or......pep....ralliys on fridays.

(Edited by bluerev002 at 3:21 am on Sep. 21, 2002)

[vox]

Hey, bluerev, I have seen those people. Really. It's true. I wasn't always the wrinkled, old vox you know today. Believe me, I've known those people. I even remember the "politics of the lunch table." (Hee, vox in high school, now that was a sight. I was even assaulted, choked and thrown down on a table, by an assistant principal. vox always seemed to know how to cause trouble. Then poor vox was arrested, and the mugshot showed the mark, much like a hickey, on my throat from the grip of the sadistic AP. But do not worry, the charges were dropped.)

So I know. I've been there. I've gone through it. I should write a post: Tips for High School Radicals.

I learned a lot of things in '92, when I campaigned for Clinton so much I should have been on the payroll. One of the big ones was DON'T BE CONFRONTATIONAL. Yeah, it's fine to do that when you're arguing with a dyed-in-the-wool conservative blowhard, but when you're talking with regular people, don't do it. If someone says something a little snarky, respond by saying, "That's a good point, but...." Or, if it got a laugh, smile and say something like, "Oh yeah, I know, but the fact is...."

Of course, you have to have the facts, and that's where the real work comes in. (You know, I feel bad for all of you people who didn't get to see Clinton in '92. I basically imitated him, and damn, people responded. You will learn, as you go through life, that most social interaction is acting. When you find someone that you don't have to act with, well, that's a friend, or, possibly, a spouse. And I've always been one who prefers a few good friends to a lot of people who "like" me because they think I'm "swell." I don't want to treat my friends like guests.)

So, yeah, it's rough. But remember one thing always: not everyone is going to find what you have to say interesting. They may find the next dance much more interesting. But we all know, all of us, that "interesting" doesn't mean important. If you want to make a change, I think that's GREAT. But it's thankless work. You expose yourself to ridicule and abuse, and it's rare anyone will say that you're doing something good and important. Frustration is guaranteed, as are feelings of anger, doubt and spite.

But it's important. Whether it's worth it or not is for you to decide, but it is, and will always be, important work.

vox

[deadpool 52]

Important information there, vox.

[ArgueEverything]

Great information, vox. There's not much i can do in terms of lobbying for Bush's impeachment, as I live in Australia (which is a shame since we are pretty much the 51st state, the way we pander to US foreign policy). I will, however, spread the word.

I've tried in the past to slip a few radical articles in my school newsletter, but they never get through the censorship board. They won't even let us do music reviews on certain types of music (heavy metal, rap etc), as it may "offend Christian sensibilities".

A couple of weeks ago, however, we organized a "black armband day" on the anniversary of the Tampa incident (did you all hear about that? When our government turned back a boat of Afghani refugees). The head master disapproved, because he said the school shouldn't be political, which we just scoffed at since they are telling our parents to vote Conservative so school funding to private schools isn't jeapordised. So we wore the black armbands anyway, and I think we've drawn the interest of a lot of otherwise apathetic people, which is what we wanted.

[canikickit]

Do you really think there is a chance of Bush being impeached?

I don't actually like being so negative but I don't think it will ever happen.
The article is still good (I printed it out so I can read it properly which is saying something). It is good to have this information, maybe I'll actually do something with it for once.

[vox]

Canikickit,

You know what the great thing, and the terrible thing, about the world is? The world doesn't care what any of us thinks!!!

Fact is, no one was talking about impeaching Clinton for a long time. Matt Drudge wrote an atricle, people got mad, the GOP saw an opportunity, etc, etc, etc.

Start TALKING about it online, to anyone, to everyone.

MAKE it possible.

If people outside of the tiny pond of Che-Lives start saying, "Y'know, I heard Bush could be impeached over war crimes," then we've ALREADY WON!

It's a small victory, to be sure, but a possible one (remember Clinton).

The FACTS are on our side.

The LAW is on our side.

Does it matter, in the great scheme of things, if he's actually impeached? No.

Does it matter that people have a seed of doubt about his integrity? About his actions? About him?

HELL YES!!!

Citizens of the USA do not deserve to be inflicted with another four years of GWB. The WORLD does not deserve it. I say let's take our strongest evidence, our best case, and run with it.

What are we waiting for?

This is part of the reason the Left is so damn laughable in the US: everyone feels so hopeless. Fuck that.

If we get people talking about it, great. If we don't, what have we lost? Seriously, what have we lost?

NOTHING.

We have nothing to lose (but our chains).

War crimes. Impeach. Stay on message. Spread the word.

vox

[Valkyrie]

Yes, it is serious shit getting that man out of the white house as soon as possible. He is going to pulverize the middle east with or without support from the world or the consenses of US congress. he has two more years to go and he could get 4 more on top of that. We have to put him out, even if only by our voices.

[Valkyrie]

Also, Come on.... That election was rigged. What are the odds that the ballots would be fucked up in Florida where his brother just happens to be govenor. And then the recently held primaries In Florida??? Same fucking shit. They are withholding the people's votes. There is no doubt a puppet has been installed in the White House.. and their holding the seat for his brother. There is no legitamacy at all in a Bush Presidency.

(Edited by Paris at 5:55 am on Sep. 21, 2002)


(Edited by Paris at 6:08 am on Sep. 21, 2002)

[vox]

Paris,

Exactly right. Bush does NOT have legitimacy with a good portion of voters, and, better still, with a good portion of activists who would take ANY Democrat over Bush, and they're willng to work for it.

Again, the Clinton debacle didn't start on Capitol Hill. It started online.

Let's start this one online, too.

vox

[IHP]

thanx vox, thats a great article. i always knew there was something dodgy about the whole guantanamo bay fiasco. and yes! lets begin online one fuck this tyrant off.

[Valkyrie]

I should have posted the links cited to this article, rather than posted to the other.

However, It stated that Bush has accused 60 states of allegedly colaborating in the Sept 11. Is anyone aware of exactly which ones? I'm curious to know.

It is unbelievable and an outrage that the UN and the world allow the US to continuously get away with these blatant International Treaty violations. Makes me wonder in disgust. Does this make him libel for prosecution at any time or is there a statute of limitations on it?

Anyway, Here are the links to the documents cited.

War Powers Act of 1973:
www.cs.indiana.edu/statecraft/warpow.html

UN Charter:
www.un.org/Overview/Charter/contents.html

Charter of the United Nations
www.un.org/aboutun/charter/

UN Non-Proliferation Treaty
www.un.org/Depts/dda/WMD/npttext.html#home

Third Geneva Confention pertaining to Prisoners of War
www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/lawofwar/geneva03.htm



Nuremberg Judgement of 1946
www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/imt/imt.htm

US War Crimes ACt of 1996
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2441.html

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/2441.notes.html

International Covenanant on Civil and Political Rights
http://www1.umn.edu/humanrts/instree/b3ccpr.htm



(Edited by Paris at 11:07 pm on Sep. 21, 2002)

[PunkRawker677]

As soon as i get my computer up (i'm using someone elses), i am going to make a multi-paged flier about this. I think this is a great chance to make something happen and i am now adding a link to this on my homepage and am urging many of my friends to do the same on their homepages or internet profiles.

[IHP]

did you hear that Dubya made it publicly known that he wants, (i spose in republican tradition) will forcible make America the sole super power in the world. want a fuckin hypocrit! he said prior to the election that he and the US would sit back "humbly" and watch the world grow, and now he's gonna enforce US supremecy!
that guy makes me sooo godamn angry!

--IHP

[Fires of History]

Vox,

As always, you're the man. Great one! I'm spreading that round, round, you spin me right round baby...

Anyway, as Salman Rushdie has said, "American unity is an illusion." Does anyone know Bush's current support numbers? Rushdie makes a great point that the last election is the true meter of American "unity" and I can only hope that Bush is held accountable for the crimes he's committed- and committing- in the name of "unity." What a lie.

Although, I'm not holding my breath on impeachment. Either way, thanks Vox.

[Valkyrie]

I heard just the other day his support was around the 65% mark, dropping since Sept 11 where it was close to 90% but said to be higher for any other president within the same point in the term. not good for us anyway...