Ban religion

[1936]

What do you crazy kids think about banning religions when the new system is in place.

I personally believe aslong as religion is seperated from politics then people are free to believe what they want.

[redstar2000]

In the view of this "crazy kid", the idea of "banning" religion is unenforcible.

What can be and should be done is to remove religion entirely from public life -- if that is done, then religion will indeed "wither away" even in the minds of the faithful.

That won't be an easy task...but it's "doable".

If you disagree, count the attendance at your neighborhood Temple of Zeus next Sunday. :D

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/evil/teu42.gif

[MKS]

I think we can look to Europe as a good example (western Europe in paticular) for evidence that seperation of church and state contributes to the destruction of the religosity of a culture.
Church attendance is down to very low numbers, and laws reflect the changing ethos of the people.

[More Fire for the People]

Communist do not wish to ban religion, but see it as fading away after capitalism is a part of our unfortunate history.

[JudeObscure84]

yes ban religion, except for the religion of marx.

[More Fire for the People]

Marxism is not a religion.

[JudeObscure84]

Marxism is not a religion.

it sure takes alot of faith to believe in it.

[OleMarxco]

Yes, atleast in the reality the burgeouise media that has projected, which almost presents "it" as almost metaphysical and unattainable! Obviously because they fear it - And/or discredits is as unrealistic utopian. You almost have to have "faith" to believe in it (except we don't impose morals on anyone), to cross the prejudices of us and the dystopian propaganda about it :rolleyes:

[More Fire for the People]

Marxism is scientific and can only be accepted or rejected.
It, like heliocentrism and evolution will eventually be accepted but it will either take time or activism for it to be understood.

[guerillablack]

what new system? Not everyone has the same agenda or ideologies. Yes, let everyone beleive evolution!

Darwin, Charles, The Descent of Man, 2nd ed. (New York: A. L. Burt Co., 1874), 797 pp.
p 178
“At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes … will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.”


That is abosultely scientific.

[Ele'ill]

it sure takes alot of faith to believe in it.

ZING :lol:

Banning religion will work as well as banning drugs or alcohol has, or anything else that people are used to having or enjoy having but are suddenly told they can't. It wouldn't work. You could try and let it fade out however an understanding of spirituality has been around in cultures not touched by the main religions. Native americans as an example. Based from superstitions possibly but became advanced. It wouldn't be surprising to see such a thing unfold later down the line in a culture where religion has been banned or otherwise faded out. It will return in a different way.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 31 2005, 05:51 PM
what new system? Not everyone has the same agenda or ideologies. Yes, let everyone beleive evolution!

Darwin, Charles, The Descent of Man, 2nd ed. (New York: A. L. Burt Co., 1874), 797 pp.
p 178
“At some future period, not very distant as measured by centuries, the civilized races of man will almost certainly exterminate and replace the savage races throughout the world. At the same time the anthropomorphous apes … will no doubt be exterminated. The break between man and his nearest allies will then be wider, for it will intervene between man in a more civilized state, as we may hope, even than the Caucasian, and some ape as low as a baboon, instead of as now between the negro or Australian and the gorilla.”


That is abosultely scientific.
Evolution has 10000000000000000000 times more evidence supporting it than your shitty religion has to support the existence of your stupid Allah. Claiming that an out of context quote of Darwin who wrote it in a time when racism was normal is a good reason to worship your bullshit is completely ridiculous.

Get over it. Religion lost. Science won. Darwin's writings are not a stupid bible or quran.

[guerillablack]

Alot of anger you have european. Your western thought is limiting your progression, for religon and revolution are harmonious. The whole notion of religion vs religion is absurd and is european. It's a division method. Marxism does not know how to blend dialetical materialism with religion/spirituality because it is a european cultural expression.

The idea of banning religion is absurd once you abadon your ethnocentric view.

[LSD]

Alot of anger you have european.

Sniff, sniff.

hmmm... is that the faint whiff of a racist ad hominem I smell?


The whole notion of religion vs religion is absurd and is european.

Absurd? No.
European? ...maybe.

But so what?

Religion is baed on faith, faith demands belief with proof, without reason; it is the constant enemy of reason.

Religion asks that we accept the patantly absurd without offering us any evidence or justification. Reason is the principle that we logically defend our positions and rationaly come to deductive and inductive conclusions.

These two paradigms are blatant opposites!

There can be no religion within reason, because religion is fundamentaly anti-reasonable. It, by design, ignores logic. There can, accordingly, also be no reason within religion, for without logic, reason is impossible.


The idea of banning religion is absurd once you abadon your ethnocentric view.

The idea of "banning religion" is absured because it's impractical. But we should still try to destroy religion as much as possible!


Your western thought is limiting your progression

Yeah, but didn't you once claim that homosexuality was an abomination?

So who here is really "limited"?

[codyvo]

I don't agree with either side, we shouldn't ban religion, we sure as hell shouldn't promote it, but even trying to destroy religion is a bit inpractical and invasive. The government should have no say in what each individual believes, if they want to worship some invisible guy, let them, we shouldn't have the right to tell people what they believe is wrong.

[guerillablack]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 1 2005, 02:42 PM

Alot of anger you have european.

Sniff, sniff.

hmmm... is that the faint whiff of a racist ad hominem I smell?


The whole notion of religion vs religion is absurd and is european.

Absurd? No.
European? ...maybe.

But so what?

Religion is baed on faith, faith demands belief with proof, without reason; it is the constant enemy of reason.

Religion asks that we accept the patantly absurd without offering us any evidence or justification. Reason is the principle that we logically defend our positions and rationaly come to deductive and inductive conclusions.

These two paradigms are blatant opposites!

There can be no religion within reason, because religion is fundamentaly anti-reasonable. It, by design, ignores logic. There can, accordingly, also be no reason within religion, for without logic, reason is impossible.


The idea of banning religion is absurd once you abadon your ethnocentric view.

The idea of "banning religion" is absured because it's impractical. But we should still try to destroy religion as much as possible!


Your western thought is limiting your progression

Yeah, but didn't you once claim that homosexuality was an abomination?

So who here is really "limited"?
Again European, your applying western thought and western definitions on religion when not everyone believes in western thought nor are of european descent. Your definition of religions shows lacks of knowledge of what religon and other spiritual systems are. Without a clear understanding of what religion is then how can you even propose to ban it?I hope that one day you will abandon your ethnocentric views, step outside of the box and realize there is no conflict between religion and revolution.

Who's reasoning is limited?I never claimed homosexuality was an abomination. Is that the best you can do?That and calling me racist?

[tebvie]

It's tuff but some would say believing in Marxism is like having a religion. However, I think that religion shouldn't be ban because Marxism whether we want to accept or not isn't truly a religion. Yes it takes a lot "faith" and belief but (I know it's a bad example but bare with me) you wouldn't consider capitalism or imperialism a religion would you? They're forms of systems.

[Eastside Revolt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 04:56 PM

The idea of banning religion is absurd once you abadon your ethnocentric view.

Just because the material contitions in a geographic area allow for poeple in that area to think a certain way before most other areas, does not make that view ethno, or eurocentric.

Also, you may want to dissregaurd this post seeing as I am of european decent. :lol:

Who's ethnocentric?

Being, I'd assume, an opressed minority, you have obviously decided that the only way to feel empowered is though racism. I'm sorry. :(

[guerillablack]

redcanada, that was a real weak reply. you truly are a mutant. just because material conditions in a geography area allow for people in that area to think a certain way before most areas does not make it right.

Again another stone of racism thrown at me? This again shows your ignorance for you don't even know what racism is to even call me racist.

Europeans can ban religion if they want to in their own territories, but i'd like to see you try it in Africa.

[LSD]

I never claimed homosexuality was an abomination.

You once claimed that the Quran was completely literally true, therefore homosexuality must be an abomination in your eyes, since it says so in the Quran. If I remember correctly, you refused to answer the question of whether or not you ascribed to that, but I fail to see how you couldn't given your stated belief regarding the veractiy of the Quran.


Is that the best you can do?That and calling me racist?

I think the racism in your last few posts speaks for itself.


Again another stone of racism thrown at me? This again shows your ignorance for you don't even know what racism is to even call me racist.

Claiming that secularism is "European" is not racist, althoguht it is patently wrong, but attempting to use the ethnicity of the person to whom you are speaking as an argument is.


Alot of anger you have european. Your western thought is limiting your progression

Again European, your applying western thought and western definitions on religion

Those kind of comments only serve to lower the level of debate.


Your definition of religions shows lacks of knowledge of what religon and other spiritual systems are. Without a clear understanding of what religion is then how can you even propose to ban it?

Alright then, enlighten us!

How can religion, which demands "faith" without evidence, be compatible with reason, which demands nothing but evidence?

[Redmau5]

If Africa wasn't in such terrible poverty, religion wouldn't play an important part there. Religion is so big in poorer regions because it gives people a "reason" as to why they're poor. It makes them believe that suffering is an essential part of they're lives, it makes them accept their poverty.

Religion always stresses that you should help the poor, but more often than not, it's the poor who help religion.

[guerillablack]

Wow, Makaveli, i suggest you really research African history or study it before you post. Religion and spirituality thrived in Africa way before imperialism reached it or before Africa was exploited for it's mineral resources. Before Africa was "poor", as you say, religion still played in important part of Africans and other indigenous people's lives. Religion played an important part in Africans live past,present, future, and not because of poverty or wealth.

As far as Lys, i already proved him false on my alledged statement about homosexuality yet he keeps reaching to discredit me. He called me racists, i challenged it, he backed down. All Lys does, is try to discredit me or bring up past. Lys can't argue with me, because Lys IS a knowledgable person. However, he is NOT knowledgable in African or other people's religions or spiritual systems. Because he is someone who does like to debate, i urge him to not throw all religions and spiritual systems in a box, a box created by western thought. Yu use western definitions of religion on a people who are not western and who do not have the same definition of religion as you. You cannot propose to ban religions when you do not know about the religions of African people. Africa is a continent, a very large mass of land. How can you propose to ban religion in this entity when you do not know about the religions or spiritual system of that continent? To do so is arrogant, to do so is ignorant to do so is ethnocentric.

[LSD]

He called me racists, i challenged it, he backed down.

I did? :lol:

Really?

um...where?

Let's see, my last post was "I think the racism in your last few posts speaks for itself.".

You call that "backing down"!?!?

Oh, Ok, so you're not just racist, you're also delusional.


As far as Lys, i already proved him false on my alledged statement about homosexuality

Actually you refused to answer the question, so I'll put it to you again.

Do you think that Homosexuality is abomination?

YES or NO


Yu use western definitions of religion on a people who are not western and who do not have the same definition of religion as you.

You keep saying this but have, as yet, not stated what this alternate definition is.

You claim to have a "form" or religion that is compatable with reason, I would have to assume then that this form of religion is not based on "faith" as "faith" intrinsically rejects reason.

So ...what have you got?
What is this "non-European" definition of religion?


Before Africa was "poor", as you say, religion still played in important part of Africans and other indigenous people's lives. Religion played an important part in Africans live past,present, future, and not because of poverty or wealth.

As it did everywhere else. But it's declined significantly in the first world and not in the third.

But, around the world, as living standards go up, religious belief goes down. This is not a universal rule, but its been almost always true.

[red_orchestra]

I highly doubt any political system has the power to ban religion outright. I believe that as long as religion and politics do NOT combine, then all is well.
ps.
As we evelove our species is relying less and less on religion..which is a good thing. And it is also true that some religions are more flexable and can adopt scientific ideologies...ie. Buddhism being one of those rare religions that does not reject logic, and scientific reasoning.

:)

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 11:48 PM
Wow, Makaveli, i suggest you really research African history or study it before you post. Religion and spirituality thrived in Africa way before imperialism reached it or before Africa was exploited for it's mineral resources. Before Africa was "poor", as you say, religion still played in important part of Africans and other indigenous people's lives. Religion played an important part in Africans live past,present, future, and not because of poverty or wealth.
Religion and spirituality thrived in most cultures in the past, but this was mainly down to a lack of scientific understanding than the social and economic conditions of the people.

Look at the Romans, Greeks etc.... Some of the most advanced peoples believed in "gods". It had very little to do with poverty then, but that is not the case now.

[guerillablack]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 2 2005, 12:02 AM

He called me racists, i challenged it, he backed down.

I did? :lol:

Really?

um...where?

Let's see, my last post was "I think the racism in your last few posts speaks for itself.".

You call that "backing down"!?!?

Oh, Ok, so you're not just racist, you're also delusional.


As far as Lys, i already proved him false on my alledged statement about homosexuality

Actually you refused to answer the question, so I'll put it to you again.

Do you think that Homosexuality is abomination?

YES or NO


Yu use western definitions of religion on a people who are not western and who do not have the same definition of religion as you.

You keep saying this but have, as yet, not stated what this alternate definition is.

You claim to have a "form" or religion that is compatable with reason, I would have to assume then that this form of religion is not based on "faith" as "faith" intrinsically rejects reason.

So ...what have you got?
What is this "non-European" definition of religion?


Before Africa was "poor", as you say, religion still played in important part of Africans and other indigenous people's lives. Religion played an important part in Africans live past,present, future, and not because of poverty or wealth.

As it did everywhere else. But it's declined significantly in the first world and not in the third.

But, around the world, as living standards go up, religious belief goes down. This is not a universal rule, but its been almost always true.
What is your standard of living?The argument that belief in religion and a spiritual system drops when standard of living goes up, can be debated. Mackaveli, first you said religion thrives in poverty but now point out that it thrives even when a people's aren't necessarily impoverished. Make up your mind.

Acid, since in other threads you like to run around your anti-islam sites and research information, why don't you research yourself this subject. I do not say your western thought is hindering you to offend you i am pointing out the obvious. You are having trouble comprehending the concept of faith and religion. Either you learn about African spiritual systems and religions indepthly and understand its concepts, then the case of banning religion in Africa is closed for discussion until everyone is knowledgable ont he subject. Since noone here knows anything about it, the whole banning religion worldwide is void, because Africa is a huge part of it.

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 12:19 AM
Mackaveli, first you said religion thrives in poverty but now point out that it thrives even when a people's aren't necessarily impoverished. Make up your mind.
That's because you said religion played a big part in Africa before it was impoverished. You referred to a time when most of the world was religious in some shape or form, even advanced peoples, so Africa being religious in the past isn't surprsing.

There is no point in talking about Africa's religious past because, as i said, even secular societies had a religious past. What i am referring to now is that Africa, Latin America and many parts of Eastern Europe and Asia are religious because they are in poverty, not because of their "religious history".

As LSD pointed out, if people's living standards go up, they're religious zeal tends to drop. Of course there are exceptions to the rule, but that is generally the case.

[El_Revolucionario]

I don't see how banning religion will solve anything or make religion go away. Better to let people decide for themselves whether to believe in something or not.

[Sa'd al-Bari]

“Religion must be declared a private affair. In these words socialists usually express their attitude towards religion. But the meaning of these words should be accurately defined to prevent any misunderstanding. We demand that religion be held a private affair so far as the state is concerned. But by no means can we consider religion a private affair so far as our Party is concerned. Religion must be of no concern to the state, and religious societies must have no connection with governmental authority. Everyone must be absolutely free to profess any religion he pleases, or no religion whatever, i.e., to be an atheist, which every socialist is, as a rule.* Discrimination among citizens on account of their religious convictions is wholly intolerable…” (V.I. Lenin, Socialism and Religion (http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1905/dec/03.htm), 1905)

* - my italics

[LSD]

What is your standard of living?The argument that belief in religion and a spiritual system drops when standard of living goes up, can be debated.

Then debate it!


Acid, since in other threads you like to run around your anti-islam sites and research information, why don't you research yourself this subject. I do not say your western thought is hindering you to offend you i am pointing out the obvious. You are having trouble comprehending the concept of faith and religion.

sigh..

You keep saying this, but you have STILL not proposed an alternative model. So I will ask the question again:

"What is this "non-European" definition of religion?"

How can religion possible be compatable with reason, when religion is, intrinsically, based on a paradigmatic philosophy that undermines the core priniples of reason and logic.


Oh, and I noticed that you still avoid the issue of your heterosexism. But I'll try once more.

Do you think that Homosexuality is abomination?

YES or NO

[guerillablack]

And i also told you to research it for yourself. Not doing so shows your arrogants and ethnocentric ways. The information is there, get it yourself. It's no sense of arguing with about african religion and african history against people with no extensive knowledge on it. It's not even worth arguing because it would never happen. I wish if revolution occured in my lifetime and Europeans tried to ban religion in Africa, my trigger finger will still be itchy.

[LSD]

Again, you dodge the issue.

Religion is by definition based on "faith". You, however, seem to dispute this and claim that somhow religion and reason are compatable.

If you wish to make this contention, defend it! Otherwise, we will assume that you have no evidence and are talking out of your ass.

Plus, I ask you once again (I know you wish I would stop asking this, but the fact that you keep refusing to answer speaks for itself):

Do you think that Homosexuality is abomination?

YES or NO

[C_Rasmussen]

I don't think religion should be banned. People have the right to believe in whatever the fuck they want. I just think that it shouldn't interfere with government however.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The problem with all of that is, religion DOES play a part in people's politics, whether they know it does or not.

A religious person has a religious way of thinking as a rule. People that believe all will be better when they die have no real motivation to fight for better condition while they're alive.

People who are backwards and believe in this reactionary superstitious nonsense have a [b]reactionary, nonsensical, superstitious and backwards way of thinking![b]

This is why we, as leftists, must struggle against it.

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by [email protected] 2 2005, 10:49 PM
People have the right to believe in whatever the fuck they want.
Think about that statement. We might not be able to prevent people from believing certain things, but whether they have the right to is a different matter.

At the end of the day, religion tells people to accept their poverty, because they will be rewarded in some sort of afterlife for the suffering endured in this life. Marxism on the other hand advocates the abolition of the capitalist system, which is the root cause of poverty. While i don't object to anyone believing in god/gods, following the current Churches and their ideas is totally imcompatible with the teachings of Marxism.

[LSD]

People have the right to believe in whatever the fuck they want.

People may have the right to believe in whatever nonsense they want, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to convince them otherwise. Moreover, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't prevent them from acting on those thoughts.

As has been covered several times on this thread, it is pretty much impossible, certainly for the foreseeable future, to "ban" religion. It is realistic, however, to ban religious action.

Religion should be treated like any other hateful irrational reactionary belief, like racism or sexism. We can't "ban" racism, but we can sure as hell stop racist acts!

And who knows, eventually we might just be able to achieve a generation free of superstitution and supernaturalism. Imagine what a wonderful day that will be....

For the immediate prsent, Makaveli_05 and CompaneroDeLibertad are spot on. Religion prevents revolutionary thought because it promisses eternal reward for suffering and minimizes the importance of "earthly" problems.

The marginalization of religion must not only be a result of revolution, it is a nescessary prerequisite for it!

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 3 2005, 12:44 AM

People have the right to believe in whatever the fuck they want.

People may have the right to believe in whatever nonsense they want, but that doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to convince them otherwise. Moreover, it doesn't mean that we shouldn't prevent them from acting on those thoughts.

As has been covered several times on this thread, it is pretty much impossible, certainly for the foreseeable future, to "ban" religion. It is realistic, however, to ban religious action.

Religion should be treated like any other hateful irrational reactionary belief, like racism or sexism. We can't "ban" racism, but we can sure as hell stop racist acts!

And who knows, eventually we might just be able to achieve a generation free of superstitution and supernaturalism. Imagine what a wonderful day that will be....

For the immediate prsent, Makaveli_05 and CompaneroDeLibertad are spot on. Religion prevents revolutionary thought because it promisses eternal reward for suffering and minimizes the importance of "earthly" problems.

The marginalization of religion must not only be a result of revolution, it is a nescessary prerequisite for it!
Hmm well doesn't that seem to infringe on human rights to try to stop religious acts and all together oulaw religion? Oh by the way not ALL religion is hateful. Its just some of what you see in the southern states here in the US.

[LSD]

Oh by the way not ALL religion is hateful.

Yes it is.

At the very least, the mainstream religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc...) are.


Its just some of what you see in the southern states here in the US.

Never been there.

Well, I was in Virginia once, but that's not really that far south. To be honest, I try to staty away from the United States these days. Too fucking scary...


Hmm well doesn't that seem to infringe on human rights to try to stop religious acts

It depends on how you define religious acts.

To clarify, I didn't mean that we should storm into people's bedrooms and stop them from praying if they so choose. I meant that, within a communist context, no public resources should be expended for religious purposes and displays of religious adherence should be socially shunned. Attempts to "convert" should be treated like any other attempt to recruit members to a hateful, reactionary organization, they should be stopped!

Again, though, all of this is social. I don't propose killing or "punnishing" religious people, no more than I would prpose doing so to racists. I despise both of their ideologies but I do think that they can be changed and more importantly they are members of society and so deserve the protection of society (unless they act against it, of course).

It will probably take a while, but eventually we can, if not eliminate, marginalize religion such that it becomes as much of a fringe belief as "Raelianism" is today. Pittied, but not feared, and certainly not emulated.

If there's one thing we've learnt from Christianity, it's how to destroy religion! :lol:

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 3 2005, 02:30 AM

Oh by the way not ALL religion is hateful.

Yes it is.

At the very least, the mainstream religions (Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc...) are.


Its just some of what you see in the southern states here in the US.

Never been there.

Well, I was in Virginia once, but that's not really that far south. To be honest, I try to staty away from the United States these days. Too fucking scary...


Hmm well doesn't that seem to infringe on human rights to try to stop religious acts

It depends on how you define religious acts.

To clarify, I didn't mean that we should storm into people's bedrooms and stop them from praying if they so choose. I meant that, within a communist context, no public resources should be expended for religious purposes and displays of religious adherence should be socially shunned. Attempts to "convert" should be treated like any other attempt to recruit members to a hateful, reactionary organization, they should be stopped!

Again, though, all of this is social. I don't propose killing or "punnishing" religious people, no more than I would prpose doing so to racists. I despise both of their ideologies but I do think that they can be changed and more importantly they are members of society and so deserve the protection of society (unless they act against it, of course).

It will probably take a while, but eventually we can, if not eliminate, marginalize religion such that it becomes as much of a fringe belief as "Raelianism" is today. Pittied, but not feared, and certainly not emulated.

If there's one thing we've learnt from Christianity, it's how to destroy religion! :lol:
Ok I can see where you are coming from on the last one so I won't comment.

The first one: No if you don't listen to that fuckin Protestant bullshit and actually take a deep look into Catholicism and the teachings of Jesus you will see that they aren't of hate. Now I am not trying to convert you in anyway, I was just stating how I view it.

The second one: I personally don't blame you for not wanting to come to our country seeing as its a bunch of right wing nutjobs but I mean states like Texas, Alabama, Georgia, Mississippi, Kentucky and so on and so forth.

[LSD]

No if you don't listen to that fuckin Protestant bullshit and actually take a deep look into Catholicism and the teachings of Jesus you will see that they aren't of hate.

..unless you're gay

...or a woman

...or Jewish.

The Bible condemns homosexuals and Jews, calls for the oppression of women, espouses hatred for all people of other religions, condones slavery, and declares that all people from Crete are liars (:huh:).

And that's just the New Testament! -- don't get me started on the old...

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 3 2005, 03:01 AM

No if you don't listen to that fuckin Protestant bullshit and actually take a deep look into Catholicism and the teachings of Jesus you will see that they aren't of hate.

..unless you're gay

...or a woman

...or Jewish.

The Bible condemns homosexuals and Jews, calls for the oppression of women, espouses hatred for all people of other religions, condones slavery, and declares that all people from Crete are liars (:huh:).

And that's just the New Testament! -- don't get me started on the old...
No you are talking about the Old Testament. The New Testament talks more about the birth of Jesus and His life. Thats what I meant when I said that if you look at what Christ taught you would realize that it isn't of hate.

[LSD]

The New Testament talks more about the birth of Jesus and His life.

It does, but it also talks about many other things, notable God's "laws" and requirements for entry into the "kingdom of heaven".

Included among those are condemnation of homosexuals, sexist "rules" for women, pronounced hatred for nonChristians, approval of slavery, anti-semetism, and other biggotted remarks (like the thing about Cretians).


No you are talking about the Old Testament.

I'm really not.

I am talking exclusively about the New Testament here, if I were addressing the Old, I would have much mroe to say! :lol:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

OK, let's have a look at the New Testament:

First, let's see the injustice:


Matthew

# Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12

# Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

# Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

# Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14

# "the children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12

# Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21

# Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32

# Jesus tells his disciples to keep away from the Gentiles and Samaritans, and go only to the Israelites. 10:5-6

# Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15

# Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21

# Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28

# "Whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven." 10:33

# Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36

# Jesus warns us not to love our parents or children too much. We have to make sure that we always love him (who we don't even know existed) more than our family. 10:37

# Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

# When Jesus' mother and brothers want to see him, Jesus rudely asks, "Who is my mother? Who are my brothers?" So much for Jesus' family values. 12:47-49

# Jesus explains that the reason he speaks in parables is so that no one will understand him, "lest ... they ... should understand ... and should be converted, and I should heal them." 13:10-15

# "For whosoever hath, to him shall be given, and he shall have more abundance: but whosoever hath not, from him shall be taken away even that he hath." Isn't this from the Republican Party platform? 13:12

# Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50

# Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7

# Jesus refuses to heal the Canaanite woman's possessed daughter, saying "it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to the dogs." 15:22-26

# Jesus condemns the whole world, saying "Woe unto the world because of offenses." 18:7

# Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9

# In the parable of the unforgiving servant, the king threatens to enslave a man and his entire family to pay for a debt. This practice, which was common at the time, seems not to have bothered Jesus very much. 18:25

# Rich people don't go to heaven. For as Jesus says, "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 19:23

# Abandon your wife and children for Jesus and he'll give you a big reward. 19:29

# In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 21:12-13

# Jesus condemns the Jews for being "the children of them which killed the prophets." 23:31

# Jesus blames his the Jews (who were then living) for "all the righteous blood" from Abel to Zecharias, 23:35

# Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

# God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51

# Jesus will give to those who already have and take from those who have nothing. He must've been a republican. 25:29

# The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30

# Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41

# Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46

# "His blood be on us, and on our children." This verse blames the Jews for the death of Jesus and has been used to justify their persecution for twenty centuries. 27:25
Mark

# Jesus becomes angry at those who said that he had "an unclean spirit," so he announces the unforgivable sin: "blasphemy against the Holy Ghost." 3:29

# Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12

# "For he that hath, to him shall be given: and he that hath not, from him shall be taken even that which he hath." -- The US Republican Party motto 4:25

# Jesus sends the devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13

# Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11

# Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10

# Jesus initially refuses to cast out a devil from a Syrophoenician woman's daughter, calling the woman a "dog". After much pleading, he finally agrees to cast out the devil. 7:27

# Jesus gets mad at his disciples for failing to cast out a devil and says, "O faithless generation, how long shall I be with you? how long shall I suffer you? 9:19

# Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49

# Jesus says that rich people cannot go to heaven. For "it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God. 10:25

# Jesus will reward men who abandon their wives and families. 10:29-30

# In the last days God will make things especially rough on pregnant women. 13:17

# Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16
Luke

# God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20

# Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9

# "Be content with your wages" -- no matter how unjust they may be. 3:14

# John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17

# Peter and his partners (James and John) abandon their wives and children to follow Jesus. 5:11

# Jesus says that people who are rich, well-fed, happy, or respected are going to hell. 6:24-26

# Jesus says that he speaks in parables so "that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand." 8:10

# Jesus, when told that his mother and brothers want to see him, ignores and insults them by saying that his mother and brothers are those who hear the word of God and do it. 8:20-21

# Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37

# Jesus speaks harshly to his disciples because they couldn't cure epilepsy by casting out devils. 9:41

# Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15

# Jesus blames all the deaths of the prophets [from Abel(?) to Zacharias] on his generation. 11:47-50

# Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5

# Those who "blaspheme against the Holy Ghost" will never be forgiven. 12:10

# Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47

# Jesus calls the people hypocrites because they cannot "discern this time." 12:56

# According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30

# Jesus says that his disciples must hate their families (mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, husbands, wives, children) and themselves. 14:26

# If you want to be a disciple of Jesus, you must abandon everything, including your family. 14:33

# In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man goes to hell, because as Abraham explains, he had a good life on earth and so now he will be tormented. Whereas Lazarus, who was miserable on earth, is now in heaven. This seems fair to Jesus. 16:19-31

# Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27

# Jesus also believes the story about Noah's flood and Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32

# Rich people cannot go to heaven. "For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." 18:25

# In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words of Jesus: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27
John

# People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. 3:18, 36

# The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36

# Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14

# Jesus tells his family that he wasn't going to the feast, but later goes "in secret." 7:8-10

# If you don't believe in Jesus, you will "die in your sins" (and then go to hell). 8:24

# Jesus calls his opponents (the Jews) the sons of the devil. 8:44

# Jesus says that he has come to make people blind. 9:39

# "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers." All the prophets, kings, and heroes of the Old Testament; everyone that ever lived before him was a thief and a robber. 10:8

# Lararus must suffer and die so that Jesus can "be glorified" by raising him from the dead. 11:4

# Mary wastes expensive ointment on Jesus' feet, rather than selling the ointment and giving the money to the poor. But Jesus thinks his feet are more important, saying that poor people will always be around, but he and his precious feet won't be. (According to the New Oxford Annotated Bible, 300 denarii would be nearly a year's wage for a laborer.) 12:3-8

# The reason people didn't believe in Jesus was that God had "blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart." God did this so that they would not "understand with their heart, and be converted." This way God could damn more people to hell. 12:40

# If you don't believe in Jesus you are going to hell. 12:48

# Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6

# Now that Jesus has come, non-believers have no excuse for not believing in him. 15:22
Acts

# Peter blames the Jews for the death of Jesus. 3:14-15

# Peter wrongly claims that Dt.18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all nonchristians) must be killed. 3:23

# God will torture forever those who don't know the password to heaven. 4:12

# Peter and God scare Ananias and his wife to death for not forking over all of the money that they made when selling their land. 5:1-10

# Once again, Peter accuses the Jews of murdering Jesus. 5:30

# Stephen blames the Jews for persecuting the prophets and murdering Jesus. 7:51-52

# The Jews are again blamed for the death of Jesus. 10:39

# Paul and the Holy Ghost conspire together to make Elymas (the sorcerer) blind. 13:8-11

# The author of Acts brags about God destroying "seven nations of the land of Canaan." 13:19

# God chooses those who will believe [the right things], and only they will go to heaven. 13:48

# If you "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ," then you and your whole family will be saved; otherwise, God will send you all to hell. 16:30-31

# "And when they [the Jews of Corinth] opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he [Paul] shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads." (Have a nice day?) 18:6
Romans

# "The wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 1:18-20

# The existence and nature of God are self-evident; thus, unbelievers are "without excuse." 1:20

# God abandons those who don't know him to "uncleanness and vile affections." 1:24, 26, 28

# With his usual intolerance, Paul condemns homosexuals (including lesbians). This is the only clear reference to lesbians in the Bible. 1:26-28

# Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32

# Paul asks the very good question: "Is there unrighteousness who taketh vengeance [upon innocent people]?" The obvious answer to this is, yes. 3:5

# Paul says that those who accuse him of lying deserve damnation. 3:8

# The guilty are "justified" and "saved from wrath" by the blood of an innocent victim. 5:9

# God punishes everyone for someone else's sin; then he saves them by killing an innocent victim. 5:12

# God gave the law so "that the offence might abound." 5:20

# Everyone is predestined by God to be either saved or damned; they can do nothing to affect their final destiny. 8:29-30

# No one can oppose Christians since God is on their side. 8:31

# "He that spareth not his own son" shouldn't be trusted by anyone. 8:32

# A Christian cannot be accused of any wrongdoing. 8:33

# God makes some people that are destined to go to heaven and others that will go to hell. There is nothing that they can do to change the will of God. Paul says that this is how it should be, saying: "What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known" damns most of mankind to eternal torments of hell for things they either didn't do or couldn't avoid doing? 9:11-22

# "Esau have I hated." 9:13

# "What shall be say then? Is their unrighteousness with God?" It sure looks like it! 9:14-22

# "Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth." 9:18

# God blinded the Jews so they wouldn't recognize Jesus as the Messiah. 11:7-10

# "The powers that be are ordained of God." Whoever resists them will be damned. 13:1-4

# "He that doubteth is damned ... Whosoever is not of faith is sin." 14:23

# Shun those who disagree with your religious views. 16:17
1 Corinthians

# "I [God] will destroy the wisdom of the wise." 1:19

# Christians can judge everything and everybody, but no non-Christian can judge them. 2:15

# If you defile the temple of God, God will destroy you. 3:17

# Paul, judging from rumors alone, complains that there are fornicators among his followers in Corinth; he is even worried that some have had sex with their fathers' wives. He says that those who have done these things should be "delivered to Satan for the destruction of the flesh" so that their soul can be saved. 5:1-5

# A believer should not sue another believer in court. 6:1-7

# "Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world?" 6:2

# Paul lists ten things that will keep you out of heaven, including homosexuality and being "effeminate." 6:9-10

# Slaves should not desire their freedom. 7:21

# Everything is lawful to Paul, and he submits himself to no law. 6:12, 10:23

# Paul quotes Dt.25:4, "Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn." That sounds like a nice humane law. Until Paul explains it, that is. He asks, "Does God care about oxen?", and then answers his own rhetorical question by saying, "Hell no. The law is for our sakes." 9:9-10

# Paul claims that God killed 23,000 in a plague for "committing whoredom with the daughters of Moab 10:8

# If you tempt Christ (How could you tempt Christ?), you'll die from snake bites. 10:9

# If you murmur, you'll be destroyed by the destroyer (God). 10:10

# Those that "eateth and drinketh unworthily" will go to hell. 11:27

# Women are commanded by Paul to be silent in church and to be obedient to men. He further says that "if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in church." 14:34-35

# Those who don't love Jesus are to be "anathema" (damned). 16:22
2 Corinthians

# All non-Christians are blind. They were blinded by God to prevent them from seeing the truth. 3:14-16

# "The god of this world" has blinded the minds of nonbelievers. 4:3-4

# Jesus, who was without sin, was made into sin. This made the real sinners sinless. 5:21

# Keep away from unbelievers. Neither marry nor be friends with them. 6:14-17

# Paul set an example for televangelists by robbing some churches. 11:8

# "Being crafty, I [Paul] caught you with guile." 12:16

# Paul says he "will not spare" when he comes back to punish those who have sinned. 13:2

# Are you a reprobate? Here's the test: if you know for sure that Jesus is in you, you're not a reprobate. Otherwise you are. 13:5
Galatians

# If anyone dares to disagree with Paul on religious matters, "let him be accursed." 1:8-9

# Those who try to follow the law are cursed 3:10

# Witches, idol worshippers, and heretics will not go to heaven. (Guess where they'll be going.) 5:20-21
Ephesians

# We are predestined by God to go to either heaven or hell. None of our thoughts, words, or actions can affect the final outcome. 1:4-5, 11

# God had his son murdered to keep himself from hurting others for things they didn't do. 1:7

# We are by nature "the children of wrath." 2:3

# Those who engage in "foolish talking" or "jesting" will not go to heaven. (Guess where they will be going.) 5:4-5

# No "unclean person" or "idolater" will inherit the kingdom of God. (They'll all be going to hell.) 5:5

# Paul orders slaves to obey their masters "as unto Christ." 6:5
Philippians

# Everyone will have to worship Jesus -- whether they want to or not. 2:10-11
Colossians

# God bought us with someone else's blood. 1:14

# God makes peace through blood. 1:19-20

# Paul says that children should obey their parents "in all things." This verse must be a favorite for Christian parents who abuse their children. 3:20

# "Servants, obey in all things your masters." 3:22

# It's okay to own slaves, but you should try to treat them well. 4:1
1 Thessalonians

# The elect and the damned are predestined by God. 1:4

# Paul accuses "the Jews" of killing Jesus, persecuting the prophets, displeasing God, and being "contrary to all men." He concludes that the wrath of God will "come upon them to the uttermost. 2:15-16
2 Thessalonians

# Jesus will take "vengeance on them that know not God" by burning them forever "in flaming fire." 1:7-9

# God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn our souls to hell. 2:11-12

# God selects those who are to be saved (or damned) "from the beginning." It therefore makes no difference how good, kind, honest, or loving we may be; if god hasn't chosen us, we will be damned. 2:13

# Those who disagree with Paul are to be shunned. 3:6, 14

# Paul said that those who will not or cannot work should starve to death. He must have been a Republican. 3:10
1 Timothy

# Paul delivered Hymenaeus and Alexander unto Satan so "that they might learn not to blaspheme." Apparently (see 2 Tim.2:16-18 and 4:14-15) their "blasphemy" was disagreeing with Paul. 1:20

# Real widows are "desolate" and pray "night and day." But those widows that experience pleasure are "dead while [they] live." 5:5-6

# You should help a widow only if she 1) is over 60 years old, 2) had only one husband, 3) has raised children, 4) has lodged strangers, 5) has "washed the saints feet," 6) has relieved the afflicted, and 7) has "diligently followed very good work." Otherwise, let them starve. "But the younger widows refuse [to help]: for ... they will marry; having damnation." Besides the young widows are always idle tattlers -- "busybodies, spreading things which they ought not." He adds that "some are already turned aside after Satan." 5:9-15

# Publicly humiliate those who sin by announcing their sins in front of God and everybody so "that others may also fear." 5:20

# Paul sees nothing wrong with slavery and admonishes slaves to "count their own masters worthy of all honor." 6:1
2 Timothy

# God selected us to be either saved or damned, and there isn't a damned thing we can do about it. 1:9

# "If we deny him [Jesus], he will deny us." Fair is fair! 2:12

# Shun non-believers and other profane babblers. 2:16

# Paul condemns Hymenaeus and Philetus for disagreeing with him about the timing of the resurrection. (See 1 Tim.1:20 and 2 Tim.4:14-15) 2:17-18

# The devil can take us captive any time he pleases. 2:26

# God will "reward" Alexander for the "blasphemy" of disagreeing with Paul. (See 1 Tim.1:20 and 2 Tim.2:16-18) 4:14
Titus

# To Paul, Jews are unruly liars "whose mouths must be stopped." 1:10-11

# According to Paul, the people of Crete are "always liars, evil beasts, slow bellies." 1:12

# Paul tells slaves to obey their masters and "to please them well in all things ... showing all good fidelity." 2:9-10

# Heretics are to be rejected since they are subverted, sinners, and condemned by God. 3:10-11
Philemon

# Paul returns the runaway slave, Onesimus, to his "rightful owner", Philemon. This was, of course, a great opportunity for Paul (and God) to condemn slavery -- if he (and God) had anything against it, that is. But he doesn't. Instead he returns the slave to his owner without a word against the institution of slavery. 1:12
Hebrews

# Every skeptic and nonbeliever has "an evil heart of unbelief." 3:12

# It is impossible for fallen-away Christians to be saved. (Didn't the author know about confession or the finality of being saved?) 6:4-6

# God will not forgive us unless we shed the blood of some innocent creature. 9:13-14, 22

# Those who disobeyed the Old Testament law were killed without mercy. It will be much worse for those who displease Jesus. 10:28-29

# Try to stay away from God because " it is a fearful thing to fall into" his hands. 10:31

# If you're not a Christian, it's impossible to please God. 11:6

# God saved Rahab because she believed. (He killed all the non-believers in Jericho.) 11:31

# God always hurts the ones he loves. And if God doesn't hurt you, they you are a bastard, not a son. 12:6-8

# God ordered animals to be "stoned, or thrust through with a dart" if they "so much as ... touch the mountain." 12:20
James

# If you "keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, "you are guilty of all." 2:10

# If you are merciless to others, God will be merciless to you. (Two wrongs make a right.) 2:13

# James says Abraham was justified by works (for being willing to kill his son for God); Paul (Rom.4:2-3) says he was justified by faith (for believing that God would order him to do such an evil act). 2:21

# If your prayers are not answered, it's your own damned fault. 4:3

# Whoever is a friend of the world is an enemy of God. 4:4
1 Peter

# We are all, according to Peter, predestined to be saved or damned. We have no say in the matter. It was all determined by "the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ."1:2

# According to Peter, kings reign by divine right and everyone, therefore, should "honor the king." 2:17

# God drowned drowned everyone on earth except for Noah and his family. 3:20

# Things may get rough for Christians, but it will really be hell for nonbelievers. 4:17-18
2 Peter

# God drowned everyone else on earth except for Noah and his family. 2:5, 3:6

# Lot, who in Gen.19:8 offers his two virgin daughters to a crowd of angel rapers and later (19:30-38) impregnates them, was a "righteous man." 2:8

# God knows how to punish those that "despise government." 2:9-10

# God will set the entire earth on fire so that he can burn non-believers to death. 3:7

# When Jesus returns, he'll burn up the whole earth and everything on it. 3:10
1 John

# Every non-christian is liar and an antichrist. 2:22, 4:2-3

# Christians are alive; non-christans are dead. 5:12

# Christians are "of God;" everyone else is wicked. 5:19
3 John

# John says he "will remember his [Diotrephes] deeds ... pratting against us with malicious words." 1:10
Jude

# God pre-ordained that certain "ungodly" men would deny Jesus. 1:4

# God destroys non-believers. 1:5

Revelation

# Everyone on earth will "wail because of him [Jesus]. 1:7

# False Jews are members of "the synagogue of Satan." 2:9

# "I [Jesus] will kill her children with death." 2:23

# Those who obey God/Jesus until the end will rule everyone else with an iron rod. They'll even get to smash the others into smithereens. 2:26-27

# God will make "the synagogue of Satan [that would be the Jews] ... come and worship before thy feet." (Whose feet? Well, the feet of Christians, of course!) 3:9

# God gives someone on a white horse a bow and sends him out to conquer people. 6:2

# God gave power to someone on a red horse "to take from the earth ... that they should kill one another." 6:4

# God tells Death and Hell to kill one quarter of the earth's population with the sword, starvation, and "with the beasts of the earth." 6:8

# The martyrs just can't wait until everyone else is slaughtered. God gives them a white robe and tells them to wait until he's done with his killing spree. 6:10-11

# God tells his murderous angels to "hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of your God on their foreheads." This verse is one that Christians like to use to show God's loving concern for the environment. But the previous verse (7:2) makes it clear that it was their God-given job to "hurt the earth and the sea" just as soon as they finished their forehead marking job. 7:3

# God sends his angels to destroy a third part of all the trees, grass, sea creature, mountains, sun, moon, starts, and water. 8:7-13

# "Many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." 8:11

# The angels are instructed not to "hurt the grass [how could they? He already had all the grass killed in 8:7] ... but only those men which have not the seal of God on their foreheads." God tells his angels not to kill them, but rather torment them with scorpions for five months. Those tormented will want to die, but God won't let them. 9:4-6

# God makes some horse-like locusts with human heads, women's hair, lion's teeth, and scorpion's tails. They sting people and hurt them for five months. 9:7-10

# Four angels, with an army of 200 million, killed a third of the earth's population. 9:15-19

# Anyone that messes with God's two olive trees and two candlesticks (God's witnesses) will be burned to death by fire that comes out of their mouths. 11:3-5

# God's witnesses have special powers. They can shut up heaven so that it cannot rain, turn rivers into blood, and smite the earth with plagues "as often as they will." 11:6

# When the witnesses ascend into heaven, an earthquake kills 7000 men. This was the second woe. "The third woe cometh quickly." 11:13-14

# The devil, after he is expelled from heaven, is sent down to earth to wreak havoc on its inhabitants. 12:12

# Only 144,000 celibate men will be saved. (Those who were not "defiled with women.") 14:1-4

# Those who receive the mark of the beast will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God ... and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever." 14:10-11

# Seven angels with seven plagues are filled with the wrath of God. 15:1, 15:7

# The seven vials of wrath: 1) sores, 2) sea turned to blood, 3) rivers turned to blood, 4) people scorched with fire, 5) people gnaw their tongues in pain, 6) Euphrates dries up, 7) thunder, lightning, earthquake, and hail. 16:1-21

# Christians will fight in the war between Jesus and those allied with the beast. 17:14

# Jesus makes war. 19:11

# With eyes aflame, many crowns on his head, clothes dripping with blood, a sword sticking out of his mouth, and a secret name, Jesus leads the faithful into holy war. 19:12-15

# "Come ... unto the supper of the great God." An angel calls all the fowls to feast upon the flesh of dead horses and human bodies, "both free and bond, both small and great." 19:17-18

# The beast and the false prophet are cast alive into a lake of fire. The rest were killed with the sword of Jesus. "And all the fowls were filled with their flesh." 19:20-21

# When the thousand years are over, God will send Satan to deceive us all. 20:7-8

# God will send fire from heaven to devour people. And the devil will be tormented "day and night for ever and ever." 20:9-10

# Whoever isn't found listed in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. 20:15

# All liars, as well as those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." 21:8

# "Dogs [homosexuals?], sorcerers, whoremongers, idolaters" and along with anyone who ever told a lie will not enter the heavenly city. 22:15

And now for cruelty and violence:


Matthew

1. Those who bear bad fruit will be cut down and burned "with unquenchable fire." 3:10, 12

2. Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament. 5:17

3. Jesus recommends that to avoid sin we cut off our hands and pluck out our eyes. This advice is given immediately after he says that anyone who looks with lust at any women commits adultery. 5:29-30

4. Jesus says that most people will go to hell. 7:13-14

5. "the children of the kingdom [the Jews] shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 8:12

6. Jesus tells a man who had just lost his father: "Let the dead bury the dead." 8:21

7. Jesus sends some devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the waters below. 8:32

8. Cities that neither "receive" the disciples nor "hear" their words will be destroyed by God. It will be worse for them than for Sodom and Gomorrah. And you know what God supposedly did to those poor folks (see Gen.19:24). 10:14-15

9. Families will be torn apart because of Jesus (this is one of the few "prophecies" in the Bible that has actually come true). "Brother shall deliver up the brother to death, and the father the child: and the children shall rise up against their parents, and cause them to be put to death." 10:21

10. Jesus says that we should fear God who is willing and "able to destroy both soul and body in hell." 10:28

11. Jesus says that he has come to destroy families by making family members hate each other. He has "come not to send peace, but a sword." 10:34-36

12. Jesus condemns entire cities to dreadful deaths and to the eternal torment of hell because they didn't care for his preaching. 11:20-24

13. Jesus will send his angels to gather up "all that offend" and they "shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." 13:41-42, 50

14. Jesus is criticized by the Pharisees for not washing his hands before eating. He defends himself by attacking them for not killing disobedient children according to the commandment: "He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death." (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) So, does Jesus think that children who curse their parents should be killed? It sure sounds like it. 15:4-7

15. Jesus advises his followers to mutilate themselves by cutting off their hands and plucking out their eyes. He says it's better to be "maimed" than to suffer "everlasting fire." 18:8-9

16. In the parable of the marriage feast, the king sends his servants to gather everyone they can find, both bad and good, to come to the wedding feast. One guest didn't have on his wedding garment, so the king tied him up and "cast him into the outer darkness" where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 21:12-13

17. Jesus had no problem with the idea of drowning everyone on earth in the flood. It'll be just like that when he returns. 24:37

18. God will come when people least expect him and then he'll "cut them asunder." And "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 24:50-51

19. The servant who kept and returned his master's talent was cast into the "outer darkness" where there will be "weeping and gnashing of teeth." 25:30

20. Jesus tells us what he has planned for those that he dislikes. They will be cast into an "everlasting fire." 25:41

21. Jesus says the damned will be tormented forever. 25:46
Mark

22. Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell. 4:11-12

23. Jesus sends the devils into 2000 pigs, causing them to jump off a cliff and be drowned in the sea. When the people hear about it, they beg Jesus to leave. 5:12-13

24. Any city that doesn't "receive" the followers of Jesus will be destroyed in a manner even more savage than that of Sodom and Gomorrah. 6:11

25. Jesus criticizes the Jews for not killing their disobedient children as required by Old Testament law. (See Ex.21:15, Lev.20:9, Dt.21:18-21) 7:9-10

26. Jesus tells us to cut off our hands and feet, and pluck out our eyes to avoid going to hell. 9:43-49

27. Jesus says that those that believe and are baptized will be saved, while those who don't will be damned. 16:16
Luke

28. God strikes Zacharias dumb for doubting the angel Gabriel's words. 1:20

29. Those who fail to bear "good fruit" will be "hewn down, and cast into the fire." 3:9

30. John the Baptist says that Christ will burn the damned "with fire unquenchable." 3:17

31. Jesus heals a naked man who was possessed by many devils by sending the devils into a herd of pigs, causing them to run off a cliff and drown in the sea. This messy, cruel, and expensive (for the owners of the pigs) treatment did not favorably impress the local residents, and Jesus was asked to leave. 8:27-37

32. Jesus says that entire cities will be violently destroyed and the inhabitants "thrust down to hell" for not "receiving" his disciples. 10:10-15

33. Jesus says that we should fear God since he has the power to kill us and then torture us forever in hell. 12:5

34. Jesus says that God is like a slave-owner who beats his slaves "with many stripes." 12:46-47

35. According to Jesus, only a few will be saved; the vast majority will suffer eternally in hell where "there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth." 13:23-30

36. In the parable of the rich man and Lazarus, the rich man goes to hell, because as Abraham explains, he had a good life on earth and so now he will be tormented. Whereas Lazarus, who was miserable on earth, is now in heaven. This seems fair to Jesus. 16:19-31

37. Jesus believed the story of Noah's ark. He thought it really happened and had no problem with the idea of God drowning everything and everybody. 17:26-27

38. Jesus also believes the story about Noah's flood and Sodom's destruction. He says, "even thus shall it be in the day the son of man is revealed ... Remember Lot's wife." This tells us about Jesus' knowledge of science and history, and his sense of justice. 17:29-32

39. In the parable of the talents, Jesus says that God takes what is not rightly his, and reaps what he didn't sow. The parable ends with the words of Jesus: "bring them [those who preferred not to be ruled by him] hither, and slay them before me." 19:22-27
John

40. People are damned or saved depending only on what they believe. 3:18, 36

41. The "wrath of God" is on all unbelievers. 3:36

42. Jesus believes people are crippled by God as a punishment for sin. He tells a crippled man, after healing him, to "sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee." 5:14

43. Those who do not believe in Jesus will be cast into a fire to be burned. 15:6

44. Jesus says we must eat his flesh and drink his blood if we want to have eternal life. This idea was just too gross for "many of his disciples" and "walked no more with him." 6:53-66
Acts

45. Peter wrongly claims that Dt.18:18-19 refers to Jesus, saying that those who refuse to follow him (all nonchristians) must be killed. 3:23

46. Peter and God scare Ananias and his wife to death for not forking over all of the money that they made when selling their land. 5:1-10

47. Peter has a dream in which God show him "wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls." The voice (God's?) says, "Rise, Peter: kill and eat." 10:10-13

48. Peter describes the vision that he had in the last chapter (10:10-13). All kinds of beasts, creeping things, and fowls drop down from the sky in a big sheet, and a voice (God's, Satan's?) tells him to "Arise, Peter; slay and eat." 11:5-6

49. The "angel of the Lord" killed Herod by having him "eaten of worms" because "he gave not God the glory." 12:23

50. David was "a man after [God's] own heart." 13:22

51. The author of Acts talks about the "sure mercies of David." But David was anything but merciful. For an example of his behavior see 2 Sam.12:31 and 1 Chr.20:3, where he saws, hacks, and burns to death the inhabitants of several cities. 13:34

52. Paul and the Holy Ghost conspire together to make Elymas (the sorcerer) blind. 13:8-11
Romans

53. Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32

54. The guilty are "justified" and "saved from wrath" by the blood of an innocent victim. 5:9

55. God punishes everyone for someone else's sin; then he saves them by killing an innocent victim. 5:12
Ephesians

56. We are predestined by God to go to either heaven or hell. None of our thoughts, words, or actions can affect the final outcome. 1:4-5, 11

57. God had his son murdered to keep himself from hurting others for things they didn't do. 1:7

58. The bloody death of Jesus smelled good to God. 5:2
Colossians

59. God bought us with someone else's blood. 1:14

60. God makes peace through blood. 1:19-20
2 Thessalonians

61. Jesus will take "vengeance on them that know not God" by burning them forever "in flaming fire." 1:7-9

62. Jesus will "consume" the wicked "with the spirit of his mouth." 2:8

63. God will cause us to believe lies so that he can damn our souls to hell. 2:11-12
Hebrews

64. God will not forgive us unless we shed the blood of some innocent creature. 9:13-14, 22

65. Those who disobeyed the Old Testament law were killed without mercy. It will be much worse for those who displease Jesus. 10:28-29

66. God ordered animals to be "stoned, or thrust through with a dart" if they "so much as ... touch the mountain." 12:20
James

67. If you are merciless to others, God will be merciless to you. (Two wrongs make a right.) 2:13

68. James says Abraham was justified by works (for being willing to kill his son for God); Paul (Rom.4:2-3) says he was justified by faith (for believing that God would order him to do such an evil act). 2:21
1 Peter

69. We are all, according to Peter, predestined to be saved or damned. We have no say in the matter. It was all determined by "the sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ."1:2

70. God drowned drowned everyone on earth except for Noah and his family. 3:20
2 Peter

71. God drowned everyone else on earth except for Noah and his family. 2:5, 3:6

72. God will set the entire earth on fire so that he can burn non-believers to death. 3:7

73. When Jesus returns, he'll burn up the whole earth and everything on it. 3:10
1 John

74. Jesus' blood washes away human sin. 1:7
Jude

75. God destroys non-believers. 1:5
Revelation

76. Jesus "washed us ... with his own blood." 1:5

77. Everyone on earth will wail because of Jesus. 1:7

78. Jesus has "the keys of hell and death." 1:18

79. Repent -- or else Jesus will fight you with the sword that sticks out of his mouth. (Like the limbless knight in Monty Python's "Holy Grail.") 2:16

80. "I [Jesus] will kill her children with death." 2:23

81. God gives someone on a white horse a bow and sends him out to conquer people. 6:2

82. God gave power to someone on a red horse "to take from the earth ... that they should kill one another." 6:4

83. God tells Death and Hell to kill one quarter of the earth's population with the sword, starvation, and "with the beasts of the earth." 6:8

84. The martyrs just can't wait until everyone else is slaughtered. God gives them a white robe and tells them to wait until he's done with his killing spree. 6:10-11

85. God tells his murderous angels to "hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of your God on their foreheads." This verse is one that Christians like to use to show God's loving concern for the environment. But the previous verse (7:2) makes it clear that it was their God-given job to "hurt the earth and the sea" just as soon as they finished their forehead marking job. 7:3

86. Those that survive the great tribulation will get to wash their clothes in the blood of the lamb. 7:14

87. God sends his angels to destroy a third part of all the trees, grass, sea creature, mountains, sun, moon, starts, and water. 8:7-13

88. "Many men died of the waters, because they were made bitter." 8:11

89. The angels are instructed not to "hurt the grass [how could they? He already had all the grass killed in 8:7] ... but only those men which have not the seal of God on their foreheads." God tells his angels not to kill them, but rather torment them with scorpions for five months. Those tormented will want to die, but God won't let them. 9:4-6

90. God makes some horse-like locusts with human heads, women's hair, lion's teeth, and scorpion's tails. They sting people and hurt them for five months. 9:7-10

91. Four angels, with an army of 200 million, killed a third of the earth's population. 9:15-19

92. Anyone that messes with God's two olive trees and two candlesticks (God's witnesses) will be burned to death by fire that comes out of their mouths. 11:3-5

93. God's witnesses have special powers. They can shut up heaven so that it cannot rain, turn rivers into blood, and smite the earth with plagues "as often as they will." 11:6

94. After God's witnesses "have finished their testimony," they are killed in a war with a beast from a bottomless pit. 11:7

95. Their dead bodies lie unburied for three and a half days. People will "rejoice over them and make merry, and shall send gifts to one another." After another three and half days God brings his witnesses back to life and they ascend into heaven. 11:8-12

96. When the witnesses ascend into heaven, an earthquake kills 7000 men. This was the second woe. "The third woe cometh quickly." 11:13-14

97. Those who receive the mark of the beast will "drink of the wine of the wrath of God ... and shall be tormented with fire and brimstone ... and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever." 14:10-11

98. "The great winepress of the wrath of God ... was trodden ... and the blood cam out of the winepress, even unto the horses bridles." 14:19-20

99. Seven angels with seven plagues are filled with the wrath of God. 15:1, 15:7

100. The seven vials of wrath: 1) sores, 2) sea turned to blood, 3) rivers turned to blood, 4) people scorched with fire, 5) people gnaw their tongues in pain, 6) Euphrates dries up, 7) thunder, lightning, earthquake, and hail. 16:1-21

101. God gave the saints and prophets blood to drink. 16:6

102. "They shall eat her flesh and burn her with fire." (Are they going to eat her first and then burn her?) 17:16-17

103. To punish her God will send plagues and famine, and "she will be utterly burned with fire." 18:8

104. God will send plagues, death, and famine on Babylon, and the kings "who have committed fornication with her" will be sad to see her burn. 18:8-9

105. Jesus makes war. 19:11

106. With eyes aflame, many crowns on his head, clothes dripping with blood, a sword sticking out of his mouth, and a secret name, Jesus leads the faithful into holy war. 19:12-15

107. "Come ... unto the supper of the great God." An angel calls all the fowls to feast upon the flesh of dead horses and human bodies, "both free and bond, both small and great." 19:17-18

108. The beast and the false prophet are cast alive into a lake of fire. The rest were killed with the sword of Jesus. "And all the fowls were filled with their flesh." 19:20-21

109. God will send fire from heaven to devour people. And the devil will be tormented "day and night for ever and ever." 20:9-10

110. Whoever isn't found listed in the book of life will be cast into the lake of fire. 20:15

111. All liars, as well as those who are fearful or unbelieving, will be cast into "the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone." 21:8

Should this mammoth selection of general unpleasantness refuse to convince you, you are an idiot.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 3 2005, 06:02 AM

The New Testament talks more about the birth of Jesus and His life.

It does, but it also talks about many other things, notable God's "laws" and requirements for entry into the "kingdom of heaven".

Included among those are condemnation of homosexuals, sexist "rules" for women, pronounced hatred for nonChristians, approval of slavery, anti-semetism, and other biggotted remarks (like the thing about Cretians).


No you are talking about the Old Testament.

I'm really not.

I am talking exclusively about the New Testament here, if I were addressing the Old, I would have much mroe to say! :lol:
Yeah I suppose seeing as I have read the Old Testament and thats just too exaggerated for me. Another thing while I was reading what you posted I realized that you were right in one sense and that being that the story where they were about to stone the prostitute. I guess there were more prejudices then I noticed. Next time I get a hold of a bible I'll look for the other things you mentioned in the New part.

@ NoXion: I wouldn't doubt that but as I said I will have a look for myself. (not to say that I doubt you as you did put up some good eveidence ;))

[red_orchestra]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 2 2005, 04:23 AM
Again, you dodge the issue.

Religion is by definition based on "faith". You, however, seem to dispute this and claim that somhow religion and reason are compatable.

If you wish to make this contention, defend it! Otherwise, we will assume that you have no evidence and are talking out of your ass.

Plus, I ask you once again (I know you wish I would stop asking this, but the fact that you keep refusing to answer speaks for itself):

Do you think that Homosexuality is abomination?

YES or NO
NO!
Homosexuality is simply a way of life for some. It must be respected as should Heterosexuality.

[LSD]

NO!
Homosexuality is simply a way of life for some. It must be respected as should Heterosexuality.

:lol:

I really wasn't putting the question out there for general consumption... but I'm glad to see you're a rational person.

I want guerrilablack to answer, since he says that the Quron is the "literal word of God".

So far, he keeps refusing to answer, I think we can all figure out why... <_<