Human Anomaly and the failure of Marxism

[MKS]

As mentioned in another one of my posts; I believe that the advanced intellect, thought process, reasoning etc are scientific anomalies. Humans have evolved outside the bounds of natural law and order. This growth is evident in the self destructive creations of the human race (nuclear weapons are one example).

Capitalism is another example; humans desire for personal wealth and prosperity have allowed them to create a system which subjugates a vast number of people. The desire for self preservation is a natural one, all animals are drived by it, however in most animal models there is a balance; what is consumed is replaced. Animals are part of a chain or ecosystem, humans however are now outside of the natural systems and stands in almost complete domination of them. Capitalism demostartes humanites complete disregard for balance and equality.

However the alternatives; socialism and communism, seem impossible to achieve in todays modern world. Most attempts have failed horribly. And the people who still hold to these tenants and theories are left asking why. Many Marxists would argue that the material reality was never in place to sustain socialism and eventually communism, while such arguements might have been true in the late 19th century and early 20th, the reality now is suitable for revolution and creation of a new system.
I maintain that the human anomaly; the growth of the human intellect, its creation of such destructive systems and technologies is a key reason on why Communism has failed to take root and be sustained.
Many Marxists reject the notion of human nature, of something other than the material reality driving the course of events. But human nature; its evidence of destruction, oppression and creation of systems that work against any natural system, does play a very important factor when asking why things are the way they are. Human nature can be coerced by the material reality but what is implanted and cultivated in many societies and cultures becomes: human nature.
It is a very scientific observation to realize the anomalous nature of the human being. And how that contradicts the basic ideals and principles of Communism. But

It is important however to understand the anomaly of human nature is not nessecarily a negative thing; it can be positive, through active re-creation the human mood or "natural tendencies". The vast intellect and knoweledge of man can be used to established a Socialist/Communist society if the certain aspects and perverisons of the human race are destroyed.

[NovelGentry]

However the alternatives; socialism and communism, seem impossible to achieve in todays modern world. Most attempts have failed horribly. And the people who still hold to these tenants and theories are left asking why. Many Marxists would argue that the material reality was never in place to sustain socialism and eventually communism, while such arguements might have been true in the late 19th century and early 20th, the reality now is suitable for revolution and creation of a new system.
I maintain that the human anomaly; the growth of the human intellect, its creation of such destructive systems and technologies is a key reason on why Communism has failed to take root and be sustained.
Many Marxists reject the notion of human nature, of something other than the material reality driving the course of events. But human nature; its evidence of destruction, oppression and creation of systems that work against any natural system, does play a very important factor when asking why things are the way they are. Human nature can be coerced by the material reality but what is implanted and cultivated in many societies and cultures becomes: human nature.
It is a very scientific observation to realize the anomalous nature of the human being. And how that contradicts the basic ideals and principles of Communism. But


It is not that we reject it as material reality, we realize that before we can make history, before we can see feudalism, capitalism, and before we can build nukes, we must first resolve the consistent attack on our life that comes in the form of necessary food, water, shelter. No matter what our will or desire we cannot overcome this. Even if our instinct did not deem we do eat, that doesn't make not eating any more of a possibility -- we will die just the same.

Thus, human nature, will, instinct, whatever you wish to call the "reason" element, bows first and foremost to it's material master.

Human nature, if such higher level human nature does exist, cannot be coerced, to do so would mean it is something other than our nature and that it can be changed and thus is a product of something else, not inherent within our thinking. To say human nature can be coerced by material reality or any other aspect is to say it can be coerced period, and that means a whole lot more about what you're actually talking about than what is affecting it.

You then go on to say that it "becomes" human nature. Can human nature then not unbecome? Can it not become something different?

Maybe what is implemented and cultivated in many societies is in so many because we all have the same material necessity (generally speaking). Maybe this is why that regardless of the separation of humans over many great distances, tribal, feudal, and capitalist relations have become generally universal. That is to say, even though they may not have both had the same structure at the same time, the general development of human social conditions advanced in a similar and extremely relative style.

There's lots of ways to skin a cat, but in the end, we pretty much all ended up doing it the same way. Is this human nature? Or is it something far more exact and traceable?

[MKS]

My main point:The Human Race has become parasitic, constantly consuming and destroying. We live outside of any recgonizable natural system. That parsitic "nature" whether contrived from the material reality of from other scientific factors are anomalous, The human anomaly has allowed for the creation of the oppressive systems that exist today.

The human anomaly is an objective reality, the products of the anomaly are coerced by other factors and are not by nature a negative thing.

The big question could be; What is human nature?

[NovelGentry]

My main point:The Human Race has become parasitic, constantly consuming and destroying. We live outside of any recgonizable natural system. That parsitic "nature" whether contrived from the material reality of from other scientific factors are anomalous, The human anomaly has allowed for the creation of the oppressive systems that exist today.

The human anomaly is an objective reality, the products of the anomaly are coerced by other factors and are not by nature a negative thing.

The big question could be; What is human nature?

Yes, Marx called it alienation and it was the basis for his philosophical work.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by MKS
As mentioned in another one of my posts; I believe that the advanced intellect, thought process, reasoning etc are scientific anomalies.

An anomaly is simply a deviation from the norm. Human rationality is indeed such a deviation and a very sharp one.

But we're "stuck with it" -- not even John Zerzan can make us give it up "for our own good".


Humans have evolved outside the bounds of natural law and order.

No, that's not true. We are part of "natural law and order" whether we like it or not.

What humans can do (that no other species can do) is understand "natural law and order" and thus manipulate it to our advantage as a species and to the corresponding disadvantage of competing species.

Further, our capabilities in this regard increase from year to year.


It is a very scientific observation to realize the anomalous nature of the human being. And how that contradicts the basic ideals and principles of Communism.

No, the "human anomaly" is what makes communism possible. It applies our rationality to our own social structures, discovers more and more about how human societies presently operate and seeks goals and means to make those societies operate in a way more amenable to the well-being of our species.


Animals are part of a chain or ecosystem; humans however are now outside of the natural systems and stands in almost complete domination of them.

No, that is also not true. Some people might imagine that they are "above nature"...but that is a fantasy. Material reality always prevails -- the trick is to make it prevail "for you" instead of "against you".

Humans are pretty good at that "trick"...and getting better.

And that's a good thing.

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[MKS]

No, the "human anomaly" is what makes communism possible. It applies our rationality to our own social structures, discovers more and more about how human societies presently operate and seeks goals and means to make those societies operate in a way more amenable to the well-being of our species.

True, however if you are too look at human history the anomaly has worked against communism, it has created an almost impenatrable capitalist system.
It is all well and good to hypotheise on what the human could do, but the real evidence and gauge for the future is what the human did do.
As stated before the human intellect, or anomaly is an objective reality, but what it produces are coerced by the material reality, but also by "human nature".



No, that is also not true. Some people might imagine that they are "above nature"...but that is a fantasy. Material reality always prevails -- the trick is to make it prevail "for you" instead of "against you".

Humans are pretty good at that "trick"...and getting better.

And that's a good thing.

Humans beings constantly act outside of natural laws and systems and in many cases act against them. Because of human intellect or the anomaly, the human race has created the means of the destruction of the earth. No other species of animal has been able to do this. It is an act or creation against nature, since all natural species work for the preservation of their own, but also are part of an equalibreum (sp) ensuring the maintance and survival of the ecosystem.
Nuclear weapons are just one example, the hole in the ozone being another, as well as the destruction of almost evey clean water source in the world.

The idea relates to the failure of Communism, because the intellect of the human and the destructive nature that it has created has and will pervert any attempt at real change. And then the question still remains: how do you change human nature, if it is not nature than it is a deeply inbeded ethos, which is almost impossible to destroy.

I guess the another key point is: Humans have acted one way for so long, how can change occur, and how can we explain such actions and patterns without recgonizing the presence and influence of human nature.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by MKS
True, however if you are to look at human history, the anomaly has worked against communism; it has created an almost impenetrable capitalist system.

I don't find this to be a coherent statement; I don't understand what you are trying to say.

The human use of reason generated class societies because those societies allowed more people to survive than primitive communism.

That is still the case up to the present day. While 5/6ths of the world's 6 billion plus humans live in bad to unspeakably awful conditions, they are alive...obeying the Darwinian imperative and not being "above nature".

I have no idea of what you mean by an "impenetrable" capitalist system, but if you mean by that phase that capitalism is "permanent", then I disagree.


Humans beings constantly act outside of natural laws and systems and in many cases act against them.

What you are asserting is literally impossible. Natural "laws" would not be "laws" if humans could act "outside them".

I think what you are trying to say is that (some) humans act without regard for the consequences of their actions. But the consequences take place anyway.

You also disapprove of some (many?) of these actions...and so do I. But the reason that I disapprove of them is that they are irrational...they actually do more harm to the human species than they positively accomplish.

We are not "above nature" -- if we foul the air we breathe then we suffer for it.


The idea relates to the failure of Communism, because the intellect of the human and the destructive nature that it has created has and will pervert any attempt at real change. And then the question still remains: how do you change human nature, if it is not nature than it is a deeply embedded ethos, which is almost impossible to destroy.

I can't see what communism as a theory has to do with your concerns or how it would be "perverted" by the phenomena that concern you.

Look: if humans do X which has a negative effect on the environment Y, then humans will suffer bad consequence Z...as a result of failing to understand material reality correctly.

If we accept the hypothesis that communism is a more rational form of human society, that increases the probability of more rational decisions about the environment.

Doesn't it?


As stated before the human intellect, or anomaly is an objective reality, but what it produces are coerced by the material reality, but also by "human nature".

You keep bringing up this "human nature" thing...as if it were some mysterious "black box" that's just "naturally" full of "evil".

Every living organism seeks to alter nature for its own benefit; humans turned out to be far better at that than any other species.

But better is still not good enough. If our understanding of material reality is inadequate, then we act without knowing the real consequences of our actions...and the result is often a big fuckup.

Our fuckups teach us what we're doing wrong (material reality always prevails), and we rationally choose a better way to achieve our goal.

Our goal being that of all living organisms -- to manipulate the natural order in our favor.

If there is such a thing as "human nature", it's entirely irrelevant to this discussion.

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