Will there ever be another rev. in the states?

[Crises]

Tell me people, do you guys and gals ever think the american empire ever have its downfall? Every empire has its downfall in the history books, just look at the egyptians and the romans- In my opinion I think it won't be for a long time*that really sucks!*

[rikaguilera]

I can't see it happening. I see the mindset of people past, as one of more action. I don't see that among people currently living in the U.S. The priorities of americans today, are to obtain wealth and material items. They are upset with those that have, but are not smart enough (and I say that because the nation{as a whole} is pretty stupid) to rise up in an organized manner. I thought that maybe there was some hope for the population during the war protest. I saw people getting together to march and express their opinion. I was among a few protest and saw like minded people. I then saw the same people reside into to their sidelines and just complain without any more action. I now see these people just upset, but too caught up in the "normal" life without concearn for what is happening. There are quite a few out there (me for one) that would stand up, fight, get arrested, get my opinion out there for a cause as this, but I am afraid that there just is not enough.. The revolt of today would have to take a different form, and would take some very brave people. It would take organization from an intelligent person who is not going to back down to the rednecks and right wing christians of america. Is it possible? Anything is possible, I just can't see the feeble minded today as having the balls to carry it out. Sad really when you think about it..

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Hehe. . .of course it will "fall".
It might not crash and burn, but it won't be the power it is forever.

Perhaps it won't be thrown down, but rather the world catches up (like ancient Egypt).
On the other hand, it might fall quickly and suddenly (like the British empire).
It may be a long, slow decadence (like Rome).
It may even keep it's name forever, but in reality be a whole different nation and government (China).

Nobody ever said an empire must crash and crumble completely to "have it's downfall".
Nobody ever said a downfall has to be a revoloution.

And nothing lasts forever: it may look like it one day, but things change greatly from day to day, year to year, generation to generation.

Tout passe, tout lasse, tout casse.
Everything passes, everything wears out, everything breaks.

[Livetrueordie]

Your question in the title is differnt then the post, guarenteed to fail... don't think there will be another revolution.

[OleMarxco]

Heck, even Mona Lisa falls apart.[/blatantripofffromthemoviefightclubsaidbytylerdurde nyo]

Well, to be frank, the U.S. is chokin' way too much on his pride and wealth to be gone of the bullshit that is cloudin' their sight and for it's citizens to begin GETTING it. Perhaps they'll should be slapped around a few bits with a trout so they can get it. But before that, the third world needs our revolution more than those dumb-ass yankees who don't know their best. When it, the revolution, comes to them, I will personally stand up front with the ranks and stop on those jocks' heads and blow the head off a Federal agent with a minature gun and chop people in uniforms! LONG LIVE TEH SOCIOPATHS! :D

[Dre_Guevara]

But before that, the third world needs our revolution

I agree. First, we need revolutions to be carried out all across Latin America, Africa and parts of Asia. This is when the imperialist countries will begin to notice the great danger their in. It is only when we see more revolutions arising in the Third World, the United States will begin to deteriorate its pride.

[slim]

I think that a revolution in the states would be more effective for achieving justice in the third world. Where does the funding for oppresive latin american regimes come from than the good old US of A. El Salvador is an excellent example. They killed Oscar Romero.

[rikaguilera]

I can't tell you how glad I am to have found this site. I don't want to be gusshing here, but I just feel at home.. sorry, had to ramble a bit.

I don't know if a revolt in the southern americas would have to come first, before anything would rise up here (U.S.). I just don't see people (as a whole) in the U.S. as giving a crap about anybody but themselves. They never have, so why would they start all of a sudden. An awareness has to happen though. An awareness of what the morons in charge are actually doing, where and what they are sending support to, and who is under their boots in the name of money.

[Dre_Guevara]

I just don't see people (as a whole) in the U.S. as giving a crap about anybody but themselves. They never have, so why would they start all of a sudden

You're right, they could care less about anything else that doesn't concern them, but what the Yankees will see is the sudden emergence of revolutions across the Third World. Only then will they become aware of the situation. What we can start for now is gain supporters for the Revolutionary cause through our schools, neighborhoods, etc.


I can't tell you how glad I am to have found this site. I don't want to be gusshing here, but I just feel at home.. sorry, had to ramble a bit.

I am glad you feel at home. :)

[infoterror]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 07:50 PM
Tell me people, do you guys and gals ever think the american empire ever have its downfall?
America's done. It's just like ancient Greece - when democracy comes in the people vote to kill Socrates, not save the trees! RIP and Good Riddance America!!!

[kurt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 01:57 AM
I can't see it happening. I see the mindset of people past, as one of more action. I don't see that among people currently living in the U.S. The priorities of americans today, are to obtain wealth and material items. They are upset with those that have, but are not smart enough (and I say that because the nation{as a whole} is pretty stupid) to rise up in an organized manner. I thought that maybe there was some hope for the population during the war protest. I saw people getting together to march and express their opinion. I was among a few protest and saw like minded people. I then saw the same people reside into to their sidelines and just complain without any more action. I now see these people just upset, but too caught up in the "normal" life without concearn for what is happening. There are quite a few out there (me for one) that would stand up, fight, get arrested, get my opinion out there for a cause as this, but I am afraid that there just is not enough.. The revolt of today would have to take a different form, and would take some very brave people. It would take organization from an intelligent person who is not going to back down to the rednecks and right wing christians of america. Is it possible? Anything is possible, I just can't see the feeble minded today as having the balls to carry it out. Sad really when you think about it..
While this is very true, and telling of present day United States, I think you forget how quickly sentiment changes during times of turmoil. Revolutionary fervor can build up in a relatively short period of time. Currently, it seems as if revolution could never happen in the US, but we must come to realize that revolution will be the result of material conditions of the time period. When the material conditions are ripe for revolution in the United States, it will be capable of revolution. This however, is not to say that revolutionary times can be passed over. We must ensure the proletariat's class-consciousness is raised extensively in the time period leading to the revolution.

We, as revolutionary leftists must hold the belief in revolution, especially in the heart of imperial corruption!

[encephalon]

France was one of the most powerful and wealthy states in europe 50 years before the first revolution. Revolutionary conditions are largely hidden until soon before it smacks the world in the face.

[rikaguilera]

Comradekurt, you are very correct in your stating of how turmoil can change the tide of opinon (thus causing a revolt). My problem with modern day, as opposed to historical revolts, is in the mindset of the people. What are the current living conditions of the people today.?.. What are the issues that they hold to heart.?.. What actions are they truly willing to take, or at least mass behind.?.. I am not one that is "giving up" on the idea of a revolution. I in fact would be the first in line. I am very aware of history and revolts past, and what their foundation for action was., My problem is with the mindset of the american individual today, and their lack of action on any given subject. There are obviously those who would spread the intelligence, the cause, the action, the motivation for such events to occur, (that is why this site exist), but what would have to occur before the masses stop going to Starbucks in the morning? Before they stop turning on their tv, plop themselves on the couch, and just further their mind melt.? I don't see historical revolts as a blueprint for a future action. It would have to take a different form, and one that is based on teaching. It could not exist with small numbers, and it could not take an instant violent uprising or it would last a milasecond. What form would it take? How could it really start? That is more of what I am wrapping my mind around. Would it take support from other countries, or from some youth uprising around the world? If so, How does one go about the birthing of such an event?
Looking at history is very important, don't get me wrong, but it is not the way that an action could take place today. Too many factors that did not exist in historical revolts, are now the true enemy today...
I am not giving up hope. I am not saying it could not happen. I am saying that it would need to take a NEW form, and would require the spreading of intelligence first. What is the new form? I wish I knew., because I would like to start yesterday..

[KptnKrill]

All empires eventually collapse.

[rikaguilera]

Yes, all empires DO eventually collapse. I guess the bigger question is what will be the event or action that will cause this current empire to collapse? Eventually is too vague for me.

[slim]

I thank rikaguilera for getting me thinking about new forms of revolution,

I dont know personally how it will come and the "social rules" that have applied and caused revolution in the past will be different in the future.

We can however look at revolution on a kind of "timescale". I am no expert on social revolution, i am more of a set piece battle kind of researcher but my point is, if we follow revolution through time the same base rules will apply just on a different proportion. Revolution will always for example involve the masses.

I will use warfare as an example of this timescale theory:

Originally it was ritualistic and very few people got killed, if people were killed the ritual would usually be postponed for a later date.
Then formations were formed and spearmen could gain ground for the first time, casualties higher, more people involved.

The involvement became more complicated and more advanced over time until firearms bred a new kind of warfare.


This may seem like i've sidetracked but the same general rules apply. Now the governments have more of a social and political stranglehold on the population. Media, police, surveillence, army, welfare and scapegoats of the states problems (they have fuelled racism, sexism and other attitudes to divert us away form the true criminals- the state) have all contributed to making it tougher for revolution. Therefore i conclude that revolution must also be "stepped up" and changed for a for advanced threat than previous revolutionaries encountered.

[infoterror]

The collapse comes first, then the revolution. Just wait till gasoline is $5/gallon. Everything will be expensive, and most people will barely be able to afford to get to work. At that point, time is ripe for revolution!

Of course, I don't think it will be a leftist one. In fact, the people who are coming will detest both Bush and the left. So a good time to be underground. Luckily, I think they'll be environmentally-active, so I have no worries.

[rikaguilera]

You are welcome slim, and you hit it right on the nose. The foundation for such an action does take from past events. That is true. The revolt of the future will have to take on a very different path, and a very different start. That is pretty much what I was saying in my replies. I guess it is more of recognizing what needs to happen, then preparing the path way before any action should occur. Otherwise it will be destroyed before it gets a chance to make a difference.
Recognizing the true enemy, and knowing the weakness is the first step. Knowing who you are truly fighting, and who you are not, is how any victory (war,revolt, debate, etc..) is won.
I have always thought that intelligence (on a very large scale) would be the start of a revolt. Getting knowledge to as many as possible. Getting the eyes open of the masses. Appearing as a stable, non-violent mass that wants change. Through this you would gain trust, and attention of even more. Then you can carry out your actions, and demands as you would gain the heart of those who follow. When you teach others, and allow them to make up their own mind, they will then follow with passion for what is right. But it would have to be with their own free will.
These things could happen. I just don't see it happening any time soon with the mindset of the common american.
Thanks for allowing me to rant, and thanks for reply. It makes me feel good that like minded people are out and about today.
Rik

[infoterror]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 07:19 PM
I have always thought that intelligence (on a very large scale) would be the start of a revolt.
That's genetically incompatible with modern society (you can't teach intelligence into someone).

[metalwraith]

The chances of revolution in the united states are something that their governments over the past century or so have understood very well. The right wing, such as the kissingers and huntingtons have done more than just contribute to the right wing doublespeak and the formation of neo-conservatism. They understood that the left was a viable threat, and the entire machine of the goverment was set to counter it. This is obvious from the fact that everything from information and entertainment media to the educational system has in both subtle and not so subtle ways demonised leftists. Leftists are both "terrorists radicals" and "pinko faggots". Basically, they've made their populace believe that if you're a pacifist, the left is going to kill you. If you're a jock, then the left stands for emasculation. Workers unions have been made to appear as arms of organised crime, while free trade and the promise of unjtold wealth have been glorified to the point where the culture is defined by the marketing tools wielded by the coroporate interests. With this kind of indoctrination on such a massive scale, is it any wonder that people fail to see that the capitalist dream is the dream of the few? For these reasons, and because of the relative wealth and economic stability of the united states, the majority do not as yet see a need for change. This is where the third world comes in.
The wealth of the industrial nations is built on the blood and sweat of their own, but it is now being furthered through the exploitation of the third world, and the third world leaderships that co-operate with the capitalists in the rape of their own peoples. The third world is where the majority are disenfranchised and discontent, where revolution appears imminent. Try as they might, the imperialists can only hold back revolution for so long. When that revolution comes, the benefits to the poor of the third world will be immediate, but look at it from this point of view as well; Those revolutions will bring about a slowing down, and, once they happen in enough nations, a stop to the capitalist machine, because it cannot function without this exploitation. This will lead to a collapse of the capitalist economies, even greater disparities between the haves and have nots in America and the like. When the people of America and indeed, of all the capitalist nations are faced with situations that the third world currently experiences everyday, then they too will be another revolution just waiting to happen.
I could be wrong, but hey, this is just my opinion. :wacko:

[slim]

Originally posted by [email protected] 3 2005, 02:37 AM
That's genetically incompatible with modern society (you can't teach intelligence into someone).
I think he was reffering to intelligence as in...well intelligence.

Spying, intell, surveillence, research. etc.

[bezdomni]

I developed a drunken theory on how the American socialism will come about. It's one of many possibilities and it probably doesn't make too much sense.

First, the united states will fall into a fiscal recession due to poor government planning (ie. less income due to tax cuts and more spending due to prolonged wars with unclear goals), making them unable to fund any further large military strategy. Essentially, it will be similar to the Great Depression.

At this point, the United States will no longer be able to fund counterrevolutionaries in South America, nor will they be able to send in a large military campaign to stop any revolution in South America. We all know that Latin countries are ripe for a revolution because of poor labour laws, poor enviromental restrictions, widespread poverty...etc. All due to American imperialism (outsourcing jobs to corporations, setting up corrupt governments in order to favour american business in the latin countries as opposed to the good of the people). I believe that soon after the economic recession occurs in the United States, there will be a simultaneous (or nearly simultaneous) revolutions in Latin America. Socialism will spread to all of the Latin American countries, all borders will be destroyed. Industrialisation will occur in the argarian countries and a new, democratic socialist order will be maintained in South America, spreading up into Central America and probably stopping for a while in Mexico. After this great South American country becomes an economic power and a symbol of liberty, the United States will either fall by military tactics, economic influence or a domestic revolution in order to become anexed by the South American countries. Canada will also follow suit. After this, socialism will probably spread in all of the U.S.-depndent economies in Europe and Asia. After Asia, it will probably spread into the Middle East and then into Africa.

Just a theory. It will probably never happen, but whatever.