Facist-America

[Ultra-Violence]

:) Today it is loud and clear to me we are no longer living in a capitalist society we have moved beyond that and moved farther to the right. we are now and have been for some sixty years a fascist nation. this all started with the fall of the stock market in 1939. The stock market fell as we all know now because people were buying on the margin and the capitalist were so greedy they were over producing goods. when their was so much product out there they needed to cut production and fire people. people lost their jobs they couldn’t buy goods and it was all a spiraling down. The other reason it fell was cause people were buying on the margin and never paid back the money they owed and when every body realized this they started selling stock like crazy and thus the market fell. This is the end of capitalism and the start of fascism. During the great depression the member ship of the communist party around the world soared. the capitalist were worried about losing their power and how to find another extreme form of rule that’s when they looked to fascism. after the end of world war 2 the united states and Russia were on top. fascism : when corporations decide what is good for the state. I will give you my fellow comrades an example of how this country is run. Ge(general Electric) not only do they make home appliances but they also make bombs and they own NBC. So the war in Iraq is convenient for them so in their news Stations they will put out propaganda that’s convenient for them and the masses eat it up. So this is my question to you my comrades if communism is suppose to come after the fall of capitalism followed by socialism how are we to defeat Fascists?

I would like to greet all my fellow comrades this is my first post and i have been a big fan of this site for some time now that i finaly have a computer i can share my views with all of you.

[viva le revolution]

Glad to have you here comrade!
Quite an interesting post. However i would not compare america to nazi germany or fascism. I choose a more outlandish approach. America is the new Rome!
Rome justified conquests under the guise of spreading civilization to conquered lands and bringing light to thye "darker" regions of the world.
America is doing the same by harping on about spreading democracy, by force if necessary!

[break them chains!]

thats amazing. like phillip morris. that company owns almost all of the cigarette companys but at the same time he owns Kraft foods. so by buying Kraft products your supporting cigarette smoking. and this is the good part. not only does he own cigarette companys, he owns an anti cigarette ad company that makes ads for schools on not smokinghttp://www.mindfully.org/Industry/Philip-Morris-Subliminal-School.jpg

``The snowboard looks like a lit match. The clouds look like smoke. The mountains look like mounds of tobacco at an auction,'' said Gerald Kilbert, who directs the California Education Department's Healthy Kids Program. ``The tobacco industry is still up to their old tricks of trying to attract children using different techniques.''

this is an exerpt from some site i was at about these posters in schools. its extreme bullshit. just like G.E. and bombs, philip sells cigs and then makes subliminal "anti" smoking ads for schools.

this is from the actual philip morris site...

"our goal is to be the most responsible, effective and respected developer, manufacturer and marketer of consumer products, especially products intended for adults. our core business is manufacturing and marketing the best quality tobacco to adults who use them."

i guess effective means selling poison to children AND adults. the legal smoking age should be 80 cause then it doesnt matter...

on the same exact site right under what i just quoted above it says,

"health issues: cig smoking and disease, addiction, quitting smoking, low tar cigarettes, smoking and pregnancy, second hand smoke, surgeon general Reports"

why would you be dumb enough to sell cigs but at the same time make anti smoking shit. thats like joining the army and then protesting the fact that they want to send you to iraq its retarded, literally! it just goes to show how stupid and blind the average person in america is. lets hear your opinions.

[bolshevik butcher]

Isn't Lenin's definition of imperalism when coroporations run the government? It's an interesting concept though, it's certainly an adnvancment over 'norma' cpaitalism anyway.

[The Apathetic Atheist]

Seeing as how I still attend a public high school in the United States it is very much apparent. Vending machines are on many corners of the school which are stocked with sugar and caffeine. The underfunded school uses the profit from this to fund itself, which happens to be the case all across the U.S., making Pepsi a very well off company.

More and more companies are merging, and there are problems with corporations having absolute control. Wal-Mart is dominating its industry. AOL Time Warner is involved with internet, record labels, and television. It stemmed from the companies which shared its current name.

[American_Trotskyist]

First of all the Stock Market crashed in 1929, not 1939.

Second you have no definition of Fascism. Fascism is a totalitarian rule, without checks and balances, and which has been put in power by the petty bourgeois. We do live under the dictatorship of Capital, hence Capitalism, and capitalist do run the Government, but that is bourgeois democracy. Yes it is repressive, but that doesn't mean it is Fascism, the state is only a tool of repression.

This isn't Fascism, scientifically or even practically. Fascism is the last resort, the Capitalists don't like it because the don't hold the kind of control over the state that they would under bourgeois democracy(The German bourgeois would gladly have surrendered to the West before the Red Army got to the heart of Germany, hence the plot to kill Hitler). America is repressive and trying to deal with the economy by swinging even more toward the free market, abandoning the Keynesian economics of the 30s.

America is still entirely Capitalist, not Fascist.


Fascism: What is it and how to fight it (http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/works/1944/1944-fas.htm)

[The Apathetic Atheist]

The US is definately on a path away from capitalism recently.

[viva le revolution]

As if one is better than the other!
Fascism is the last attempt for capitalism to survive. No doubt at some point in time America alongwith other major capitalist centres will shift along that line. To say that america is not fascist or saying that another Nazi cannot exist is just naive and falling prey to media politica. The fascists have learned a lot since then. everything is more subtle but very much is still in practice around the world in many forms.

[American_Trotskyist]

As if one is better than the other!
Fascism is the last attempt for capitalism to survive. No doubt at some point in time America alongwith other major capitalist centres will shift along that line. To say that america is not fascist or saying that another Nazi cannot exist is just naive and falling prey to media politica. The fascists have learned a lot since then. everything is more subtle but very much is still in practice around the world in many forms.

Fascism is a more authoritarian form of capitalism, it is more authoritarian because it needs to be to keep it going. THERE IS NO PETTY BOURGEOIS IN AMERICA! America depleated its petty bourgeois in the post war era and the little that is left is being eaten up so rapidly it lacks any power. If you think America isn't capitalist or is moving away from capitalism your a a complete fool, it is strengthening it. There isn't democracy in America, it is bourgeois, but the bourgeoisie doesn't want to lose the power from the democracy, I don't doubt it is becoming more authoritarian, but capitalism is alway authoritarian, unless your are some sort of liberal who feels that there was some sort of democracy before this.

[viva le revolution]

Then what's the difference, both are authoritarian are they not? looking for exact replicas of nazi germany to define fascism and ascertain whether a society is fascist or not is pretty uninformed,to put it politely. In other words, the worker is screwed in both cases.

[American_Trotskyist]

Then what's the difference, both are authoritarian are they not? looking for exact replicas of nazi germany to define fascism and ascertain whether a society is fascist or not is pretty uninformed,to put it politely. In other words, the worker is screwed in both cases.

You are talking about authoritarian governments, not fascist. If I called Sweden a Communist country, it being a Social Democratic country, would that at all be accurate or scientific, or just rhetoric? You aren't even speaking reasonably, this is just rhetoric being thrown around, not an ounce of Marxist theory or thought in this theory. It is authoritarian, that is the Class System, with BOURGEOIS Democracy, not Fascism. We aren't looking for a replica of Germany, we are looking at the criteria of Fascism, you are just using rhetoric without any facts to back them up!

[Wiesty]

did it ever hit anyone that america hates japanese so they stick them all on hawaii?

just a thought...

[encephalon]

why would you be dumb enough to sell cigs but at the same time make anti smoking shit. thats like joining the army and then protesting the fact that they want to send you to iraq its retarded, literally! it just goes to show how stupid and blind the average person in america is. lets hear your opinions.

They are forced to fund anti-smoking campaigns in the US from the multiple lawsuits. That is, instead of paying reparations :P


Glad to have you here comrade!
Quite an interesting post. However i would not compare america to nazi germany or fascism. I choose a more outlandish approach. America is the new Rome!
Rome justified conquests under the guise of spreading civilization to conquered lands and bringing light to thye "darker" regions of the world.
America is doing the same by harping on about spreading democracy, by force if necessary!

That is a valid comparison. So much so, in fact, that most people don't even notice it.

The United States was founded with the intent of emulating the Roman Republic--thus the classicism on early coins and the classical architecture of government buildings.

Jefferson was a particular supporter of creating a New Roman Republic.

Many right-wing institutions and political groups are named after prominent roman right-wingers: The Cato institute, for one. If you read anything written by cato himself, in fact, you'd probably be surprised that the stuff was written thousands of years ago. The neo-con agenda reflects much of his philosophy word for word.

And, as the roman republic went to imperial rome, so too did the US go from an american republic to imperial america. The biggest difference is that it took a revolution in rome to finalize the transition, while in the US no such revolution occured. And, as the right babbles about "pax americana", so too did romans long ago, except it was "pax romana."

There are, of course, historical differences that shouldn't be ignored.. the US is far more powerful than Rome was. Rome, in fact, wasn't terribly special at the time.. we only think it was because of a eurocentric viewpoint. Many imperial civilizations took over larger areas than Rome accomplished. The biggest difference between Rome and the US is power to enforce it's self-proclaimed authority: rome couldn't. the US, thus far, can and won't hesitate to do so.

[codyvo]

I think calling america fascist is a bit degrading ot those that suffer from much more tyrranical and repressive governments than us everyday. We do not live in an ideal society or anything close to it, but their is no mass genocide, yet, and we have no room to talk about oppression while others die fighting for their beliefs each day.
America is not a fascist country, yet.

[lucky71777]

I totally agree with American_Trotskyist, Ultraviolence you seriously need some enlightenment on: history, definitions, politics, models (political, governmental,philosophical, and structural), and english. I think that you are a typical leftist that doesnt know WTF hes talking about! You are for the revolucion without knowing what it truelly stands for, AKA POSER, just like the patriotism= whoever can scream the loudest without knowing WTF their screaming about- America is capitalism at its finest - what we are seeing now is the slow deterioration that was foreseen by marx. You seriously need to go back to marx and READ his works before you start blabbering off about topics like this. Learn how to argue, how to bring up your points in an efficient, intellectual, and fact based manner. The last thing we need is another brainwashed person spitting out marxist philosophy that has been tweeked according to their personal interpretation and representation of the marxist ideals, models, and theories of marx's works! Lenin and Stalin are PRIME examples of what flawed, tainted, and destroyed marxism can do... so sad to see that some people still haven't gotten out of their cave-

PS im new too- and this my first post- just had to reply to this nonsense...

[viva le revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 01:27 AM


You are talking about authoritarian governments, not fascist. If I called Sweden a Communist country, it being a Social Democratic country, would that at all be accurate or scientific, or just rhetoric? You aren't even speaking reasonably, this is just rhetoric being thrown around, not an ounce of Marxist theory or thought in this theory. It is authoritarian, that is the Class System, with BOURGEOIS Democracy, not Fascism. We aren't looking for a replica of Germany, we are looking at the criteria of Fascism, you are just using rhetoric without any facts to back them up!
I never said america IS Fascist, all i said was that like all capitalist countries, america is slowly shifting to that line. The illegal detention of "enemy combatants", the ignorance of the geneva conventions , The control over the media and propaganda apparatus, The bullying of other nations through threat of economic and military action, The absence of any REAL opposition(the iraq war for instance was supported by both republicans and democrats), the exclusion of the working classes from any real positions of authority, the spying on correspondence of the public, the inherent generalizations(arab=terrorist), the patriot act etc etc.
now don't get me wrong i am not calling america the new germany but am merely stating that certain fascist measures are being taken to consolidate american power and hegemony in the world.

[break them chains!]

i wouldnt say that america is completely fascist.i mean there are some fascist traits but its not too bad. if you took every bad thing am,ericaq does wrong for the people and made it the extreme then maybe but not now.


The illegal detention of "enemy combatants", the ignorance of the geneva conventions , The control over the media and propaganda apparatus, The bullying of other nations through threat of economic and military action, The absence of any REAL opposition(the iraq war for instance was supported by both republicans and democrats), the exclusion of the working classes from any real positions of authority, the spying on correspondence of the public, the inherent generalizations(arab=terrorist), the patriot act etc etc.

basically these and many more.


I think calling america fascist is a bit degrading ot those that suffer from much more tyrranical and repressive governments than us everyday. We do not live in an ideal society or anything close to it, but their is no mass genocide, yet, and we have no room to talk about oppression while others die fighting for their beliefs each day.
America is not a fascist country, yet.

this is very true aslo. if you look into the past you will find examples of, not exact definition fascism, but close to it. i think the example of the nazis is pretty good. i mean they basically were extreme facsist. i have to go now post more l8r peace! :hammer: :hammer:

[DaCuBaN]

There's an interesting article on what "makes" a fascist state - decide for yourselves how accurate you think it is, and how much applies to the US or indeed any nation:


FOURTEEN CHARACTERISTICS OF FASCISM

Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, wrote an article about fascism which appeared in Free Inquiry magazine, a journal of humanist thought. Dr. Britt studied the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia), and Pinochet (Chile). He found the regimes all had 14 things in common, and he calls these the identifying characteristics of fascism. The article is titled "Fascism Anyone?," and appears in Free Inquiry’s Spring 2003 issue on page 20.

The 14 characteristics are:

1.. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism – Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2.. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights – Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to ‘look the other way’ of even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3.. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause – The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe; racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists; terrorists, etc.

4.. Supremacy of the Military – Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5.. Rampant Sexism – The government if fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6.. Controlled Mass Media – Sometimes the media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or through sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in wartime, is very common.

7.. Obsession with National Security – Fear is used as a motivation tool by the government over the masses.

8.. Religion and Government are Intertwined – Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.

9.. Corporate Power is Protected – The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders in power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10.. Labor Power is Suppressed – Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely or are severely suppressed.

11.. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts – Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12.. Obsession with Crime and Punishment – Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses, and even forego civil liberties, in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

13.. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption – Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions, and who use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability.

14.. Fraudulent Elections – Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against (or even the assassination of) the opposition candidates, the use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and the manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.


I think the US quite possibly has 12-13 out of 14 applying, but in truth I haven't seen so much of the "rampant sexism" that should exist (according to the author), neither is there a "disdain for the academic". Still, that's pretty close...

[Socialistpenguin]

DaCuBaN, here is a good little site for you:
14 Defining Characteristics of Fascism (http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts.htm)

[El_Revolucionario]

I don't think the U.S. is fascist yet. We currently have a very right-wing authoritarian government that is not worried about getting re-elected, and the Republicans have consolidated all of their power in almost all three branches of government, leaving no possibility of checks and balances. People are getting arrested for dissent more and more. It makes me worry about what America might be in 2006 or 2007, it could be a fascist dictatorship by then, and the thought of that really scares me.

But if you try to be hopeful and optimistic, you will see that Bush's approval ratings have increasingly been going down and down, and I suppose only 30% of the population supports him now. So maybe there is hope that the people will eventually get fed up with this idiot and we will free ourselves from this madman.

[workersunity]

they have to follow these certain restrictions or get sued, so they have to put up warnings about smoking