Revolutionary Tactic

[OleMarxco]

Okay. Hey. Welcome to this thread. We could do this thang.
I am going to ask all of you a hypothetical question for a hypothetical scenario with a hypothetical answer;

What if we (the members of RevLeft) went all straight with some support from the proletars, and revoluted, and in doing so, what should our strategy/tactic be, and do you believe THAT would work if we were all armed in some way? (Assuming ranged weapons, of course) Will we fuck up and the capitalists slaughter us...or would we prevail and wave the red flag? Would we do it in an imperialist country or an imperialized-by country?

To be preferred, all this talk of REVOLUTION this and that makes me WONDER....of what and how we should go forth, take it slow and convince people until everyone secretly is a communist and then begin fighting, or just start outright and inspire people by our victories? Were would the eventual retreat base of hiding be if so needed? Would we only be assasining capitalists, would we attacking "important" and weak points of Capitalism (guerrila harassing) or will we really just simply engage the Capitalist army (direct attack)...or perhaps even assualting the White House directly and taking the cabinet hostage (Terrorism), boarding up in civilian buildings to fire at any counter-attack (counter-revolutionary) to fend them off? Or keep to educating people so they can make up their own mind themselves and, hopefully, revolute "for us"?

It's like this shit is coming to us by christmas as someone else said, and why oh why, I see so few little have a plan. What should be our first target if we start blowin' shit up? And...most importantly..... WILL WE GET ROCKET LAUNCHERS? They rule! :D

[bunk]

get a base. Print propaganda and make stuff there. Try to keep it underground from the authorities. Contact the people you are wanting to help!! Find some way to help them. Grow food and stuff to hand out to working-class people. Another problem is funding. Talk to people in poor communities about communism, a bit like christian preachers but try not to be so damn annoying. Maybe from this you wil have some more members. Maybe conduct armed propaganda.

Then a stage where you could attack cops and reactionaries like protestwarriors or Nazi's. From this you will get a lot of interest. You might keep a low profile then, they will pull in the army, don't attempt to engage in guerrilla war until you have some decent firearms, regular food and supplies.
Maybe conduct armed propaganda.

[190driver]

in this day and age do you really think it is possible....? CNN would just come in and call everyone terrorists.... Then the whole world would again be brain washed by the americans.......

[Paradox]

Would we do it in an imperialist country or an imperialized-by country?

In an imperialist country, e.g. the u$, any small guerrilla group would be crushed.


Were would the eventual retreat base of hiding be if so needed?

Base??? A base in rural areas would easily be surrounded and destroyed. A base in the city would be too obvious, people could see you, spy on you. Honestly, with all the phone tapping and shit they can do, they'd find your base easy. You'd have to constantly be on the move, you can't risk staying in one spot for too long.
Base??? :lol:


To be preferred, all this talk of REVOLUTION this and that makes me WONDER....of what and how we should go forth, take it slow and convince people until everyone secretly is a communist and then begin fighting, or just start outright and inspire people by our victories?

I doubt you'll inspire very many people through small guerrilla campaigns in any imperialist nation. You'd be crushed rather quickly. Far too many people would be opposed to your ideas, and you'd have to force Communism upon the people. I don't think I have to say what that'll lead to, as it's pretty much obvious.


or will we really just simply engage the Capitalist army

:lol: In the cities, urban environments, you might be able to pull of some ambushes, but you'd have to resort to tactics like those being used by the Iraqi resistance, car bombs and shit. You get out in the open though, and your ass is dead.


boarding up in civilian buildings to fire at any counter-attack

You mean using the people as shields??? I don't even need to respond to that.


Or keep to educating people

The overwhelming majority has to want Communism. ;)


get a base. Print propaganda and make stuff there. Try to keep it underground from the authorities.

I don't see the point in "keeping underground" when all you're doing is printing propaganda. You have to be out there, showing that you're not going to hide your views. Otherwise, people will think you're rather crazy, trying to get them involved in something that you're afraid to admit to. If the group goes underground, it should go underground because it was pushed to do so in order to avoid the authorities after it has already gotten the word out.


Violence will happen in self defense, workers' militias, and such. In advanced countries like the u$, active guerrilla campaigns by small groups of revolutionaries, I don't see that being very effective.

[fernando]

Well starting a revolution in a Western nation would be impossible, you would have to start in the Third World country where the situation is really bad. This is similar to what Marx wrote, something in the lines of when capitalism fucks over the proletariat long and bad enough they will revolt. Which means either wait out until the situation gets so bad that the people will really easily rise up, or start something up immediatly.

Third World countries are I think the only place where you might start your revolution, Latin America is making it's own "revolution" now in a democratic way, if you want a guerilla struggle? I dont know where that would work in this age

[RedLenin]

The first step would of course have to be to get the proletariat on our side. We have to be vigourus in spreading our ideas. Also, an economic collapse would probably have to happen before the proletariat would consider another system. Once we have a large majority against capitalism and for communism/anarchism, then we must have one big general strike organized by the one big union.

Workers in all fields would stop working and the economy would completely collapse. This will severely weaken our enemies, including the state. Of course, there is no such thing as a completely non-violent revolution. Eventually the state or reactionaries, or both, will come and try to stop us with force. That is when we grab our guns. I would say that the only way to fight in an imperialist country would be urban warefare. Not attacking civilians though, only reactionaries. Perhaps some kind of urban guerrillaism, like hit and run tactics. This will cause fewer casualties on our side, and more destruction to theirs. Once the reactionaries surrender, we shall confiscate the means of production and put them back into the hands of the workers themselves.

Communes will be established, neighborhood assemblies will be created, delegates will be elected from these neighborhood assemblies, commune councils will be formed, and these elected delegates will decide on issues as voted on by the neighborhood they represent. This delegate system will be similar even up to global. There will also arize workers and soldiers councils. The workers councils would be incharge of running their workplaces by means of direct democracy similar to the communes. The soldiers councils would be used to democratically decide militant action and carry it out. The one big union will turn into one big federation of democratically self-managed workplaces. There begins the economy. The economy should be a money economy, such as collectivism or parecon, as a transition period without a state. The communes will also federate, but mostly remain autonomous. After resistance dies away, and all property has been confiscated, and the state is no longer in existence, we will have won the revolution and will be living in a stateless socialist society. After production increases the money economy will also disapeer in favor of a gift economy, commmunism.

This is how I have always invisioned anarchist/communist revolution.

[fernando]

I would say that the only way to fight in an imperialist country would be urban warefare. Not attacking civilians though, only reactionaries. Perhaps some kind of urban guerrillaism, like hit and run tactics. This will cause fewer casualties on our side, and more destruction to theirs. Once the reactionaries surrender, we shall confiscate the means of production and put them back into the hands of the workers themselves.

Reactionaries are not civilians? What is a reactionary? A person who has his/her own company? Kill them and the people claim you are killing civilians. In this case it wouldnt be too hard to get the people on the side of the reactionary.

[OleMarxco]

A reactionary is someone who counter-fights the revolution, who resists and struggles to uphold the PREVIOUS system, in someways - Might be a cilivian, might NOT be a civilian but actually an armed soldier - Nevertheless, the same indentifier is someone who is counter-revolutionary and it's most likely a burgeouise who is afraid of change in the precious "social system", BARF! Reactionaries have existed always up the history. From the despots who reacted to the monarchists, from the monarchists who reacted to the republicans, and the republicans who reacted to the democrats...You get it, allright? They're all people who fight by weapon or...words...futilely against a new time of a wave of change flooding in all against their "ancient order" :D

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Whatever you do, don't talk about guns, bombs or anything that might give the FBI an excuse to shut this site down.

[Donnie]

I pretty much agree with Cobra 90x.
The only way we would have a revolution is either an economic collapse or a right wing coupe (sp?)

There would be a mass general strike and we would spread Anarchist and Communist propaganda.

The Unions would be responsible for pronouncing strikes etc. No vanguard party.


Then inevitably reactionary, fascist or state forces would try to put down the revolution. At this point we would revolt and as the revolution goes on we would collectivize the land and establish, Assemblies, Councils etc.

The Unions would be good places to train the militias and distribute the weapons etc.

Each small militia would be composed of 17 people both male and female.
We would also have Centurai's composed of 100 people.

[OleMarxco]

Originally posted by Non-Sectarian Bastard!@May 21 2005, 05:28 PM
Whatever you do, don't talk about guns, bombs or anything that might give the FBI an excuse to shut this site down.
Right, as if we'd let them to! They can "shut down" all they want, them schniveling federal cowards! I WANT TO TALK ABOUT GUNS, ARSENALS AND FUCKIN' BULLETS, AMMUNITION AND STUFF ALL I WANT! LEAVE ME ALONE! :P

[ErikuSz -sXe-]

Operation: Utopia

Scenario #Alpha...

Stage 1: Contact clandestine progressive (i.e. revolutionary left) organisations and get them to mobilize their finest cadres or members.

Stage 2: Get weapons & ammunition from friendly states like China, Cuba or perhaps big organisations sympathatic to our goals.

Stage 3: Raise funds to buy a printshop in order to be independent in making propaganda.

Stage 4: Move the cadres, the guns & funds to the Falkland Islands. :D

Stage 5: Start our own miniature revolution & make it a base for all leftist and political idealists.

[workersunity]

i dont know if that would work, there would be imperialist coups in there

[The Z-Man]

I agree with Cobra 100%

[OleMarxco]

Originally posted by [email protected] 22 2005, 12:05 AM
I don't know if that would work, there would be imperialist coups in there!
Of course there will be counter-revolutionary attempts to fold up the inevitable change! But, we will be prepared for them in time! And - of course - have a backup-plan for them too... knock'n em down!

And guess what is'rhat?
FUCKIN' AUTOMATIC MACHINE GUNS BEHIND ARMORED WALLs, BABY!
'Rek O naz! :)

[Djehuti]

I wrote this on this subject way back:


/.../ "Anyway, you dont really have to talk about Marx, Lenin, communism, etc. I think its bether to go the other way around. Talk about their jobs and other every day issues, make them talk about all kinds of problems, their stupid boss, whatever.
Start that way. And after that, try to make them see the connection between their trubbles in every-day life and capitalism as a whole. Do not put forth the marxist terminology yet and start babbling about the profitquota and the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat and abstract utopian ideals, etc. But you can start a discussion on what they think they can do in every day life, on their jobs for example
to make their situation bether, and that these small struggles can be more effective if they work together with others in the same situations. I dare to say that all workers are practising some form of class struggle, however small, in their everyday life. You should make them understand this, and help them develop these struggles, go together with the other workers at their jobs, etc.

Now, they might start to understand that their struggle is not just some individual thing that have nothing to do with others or capitalism as a whole. Now it might be time to put forth Marx, or other marxist litterature....Iam not talking about the agitatory works like the Manifesto or other "proletarians! Rise! Revolution! Yahooo!"-kind of works. But simply texts that they can relate to, you might talk about what is written in Marx Capital, and why that knowledge can help them in their every day life. Soon they might realize that they are not fighting for just bether conditions, but against capitalism as a whole. Then it might be time to suggest the building of some kind of workers councils, at the workplace or in the neigbourhood, etc were councious workers meet and plan different kind of actions, still not like "Lets storm the White House", but more like trading experiences with eachother and plan for more advanced kind of struggles, like strikes, organized sabotage, theft, etc. It is easier to steal from your work place when you know that everyone is doing it, and no one will rat. It might also be time to expand the activity, out from the imidiate area (the workplace, the neighbourhood, etc)...

First now you should accually start to talk about communism, and explain that what they are doing, is accually practising communism. Communism is nothing about the Soviet Union, or some far away utopian ideal. Its about fighting capital, and that fight is mainly in every day struggles. Fighting capital is not about waving hammer and sickle flags and large demonstrations; its about all those small things. Communism is alot of small babies that will eventually develop into one large giant."

[ErikuSz -sXe-]

Originally posted by [email protected] 23 2005, 07:09 PM
I wrote this on this subject way back:


/.../ "Anyway, you dont really have to talk about Marx, Lenin, communism, etc. I think its bether to go the other way around. Talk about their jobs and other every day issues, make them talk about all kinds of problems, their stupid boss, whatever.
Start that way. And after that, try to make them see the connection between their trubbles in every-day life and capitalism as a whole. Do not put forth the marxist terminology yet and start babbling about the profitquota and the revolutionary dictatorship of the proletariat and abstract utopian ideals, etc. But you can start a discussion on what they think they can do in every day life, on their jobs for example
to make their situation bether, and that these small struggles can be more effective if they work together with others in the same situations. I dare to say that all workers are practising some form of class struggle, however small, in their everyday life. You should make them understand this, and help them develop these struggles, go together with the other workers at their jobs, etc.

Now, they might start to understand that their struggle is not just some individual thing that have nothing to do with others or capitalism as a whole. Now it might be time to put forth Marx, or other marxist litterature....Iam not talking about the agitatory works like the Manifesto or other "proletarians! Rise! Revolution! Yahooo!"-kind of works. But simply texts that they can relate to, you might talk about what is written in Marx Capital, and why that knowledge can help them in their every day life. Soon they might realize that they are not fighting for just bether conditions, but against capitalism as a whole. Then it might be time to suggest the building of some kind of workers councils, at the workplace or in the neigbourhood, etc were councious workers meet and plan different kind of actions, still not like "Lets storm the White House", but more like trading experiences with eachother and plan for more advanced kind of struggles, like strikes, organized sabotage, theft, etc. It is easier to steal from your work place when you know that everyone is doing it, and no one will rat. It might also be time to expand the activity, out from the imidiate area (the workplace, the neighbourhood, etc)...

First now you should accually start to talk about communism, and explain that what they are doing, is accually practising communism. Communism is nothing about the Soviet Union, or some far away utopian ideal. Its about fighting capital, and that fight is mainly in every day struggles. Fighting capital is not about waving hammer and sickle flags and large demonstrations; its about all those small things. Communism is alot of small babies that will eventually develop into one large giant."
I agree, you gain nothing but prejuidice by claiming to be a marxist.