What's This About?

[Paradox]

Ok. This has been pissing me off for a couple of days now. It's really not that important, but I can't stop thinking about it for some reason. Out of all the animals out there, you'd think it would be one like the gorilla, or chimpanzee, an orangutan, a primate like us, but no!!! The only other animal that can actually talk is a goddamn parrot!!! What the hell is that about!?! Is there any scientific explanation for this? I mean, why the parrot?

[Redmau5]

It just means it developed vocal cords in a way similar to ours. I don't think a parrot actually knows what it's saying when it's talking. It is just trained to speak in the same way a dog is trained to fetch a stick.

[Paradox]

Yeah, but they can recognize things. I saw on tv, there was a parrot with like an 800 word vocabulary, and they play games with the parrot. For example, they had a few small pieces of material on a table and they would take one of the pieces and hold it out to the parrot and ask the parrot "What matter?", and the parrot would feel the material in it's beak and answer "wool," or "wood." The parrot knew what it was saying. Wierd.

[Redmau5]

I dunno. Maybe animals are smarter than most people give them credit for.

[Elect Marx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 03:36 PM
Out of all the animals out there, you'd think it would be one like the gorilla, or chimpanzee, an orangutan, a primate like us, but no!!! The only other animal that can actually talk is a goddamn parrot!!! What the hell is that about!?! Is there any scientific explanation for this? I mean, why the parrot?
Incorrect, more advanced animals can use sign language and yes animals including people are more intelligent then they are generally given credit for; the simple answer is that they are distracted by their own lives. Imaging how many "Einsteins" may exist but are forced to waste time in the capitalist system. Is this any different for animals? Animals most struggle to survive as well and do not have time allotted for intellectual development...

[Paradox]

more advanced animals can use sign language

Yeah, I know that gorillas can learn sign language. But they CAN'T TALK. My question is "why the parrot?" It's the only animal that can actually talk like us. I know other animals can vocalize and "talk" to each other, with different sounds meaning different things. But the parrot can learn OUR LANGUAGE(S). Also, you say more "advanced animals." Well, I've seen a few of those top ten shows on tv about the smartest animals, and in a couple of them, the parrot was NUMBER ONE. It beat out the great apes. The parrot was either number one or two in the list of top ten smartest animals.

[apathy maybe]

Parrots (and a number of other birds) have vocal chords that can adapt to mimic a variety of things. Parrots also can learn (if raised from being hatched) to understand what things are and to use correct words in correct places.

Chimps and Gorillas don't have vocal chords that can reproduce sounds like use. They can, however, be taught sign language and are capable of more then parrots (using the limited sign language). Using sign language is talking just as using vocals is, the same part of the brain is engaged (especially if learnt young).

And any show that puts parrots at the top of any list of intelligent animals (even if it doesn't include humans) doesn't deserve to be funded or even watched.

[marxist_socialist_aussie]

essentially, as has been said, the Parrot's vocal chords have evolved in such a way that human speach can be replocated where as other animals do not have these vocal chords. Furthermore, Parrots, like Chimps and even dogs, can learn over time to associate certain words or phrases to either items, or simply when they are repeated at the parrot constantly. When I was younger, where my Granny lived, the local store owner kept a parrot which talked and it was great fun when I was little to go a speak (or try to) with the parrot.

[Paradox]

And any show that puts parrots at the top of any list of intelligent animals (even if it doesn't include humans) doesn't deserve to be funded or even watched.

:lol: Then I guess Animal Planet is garbage now!!! But seriously, you don't think parrots are very intelligent? I mean, the parrots they showed on tv were very, very smart. They set this test where the parrot had to try to get a treat from inside a tube by figuring a whole bunch of levers, pulleys, and shit, and the parrot figured it out in less than a minute and got the treat. It was pretty amazing, especially when they had that parrot that recognized different materials and shapes. And even the crows and ravens came in at number five on the list because they learned how to solve problems. For example there was a crow that had a nut and wanted to get the nut out of the shell, so the crow dropped the nut in the middle of a street and then landed on the sidewalk. The cars passing by smashed open the shell, but the crow waited for the street light to change so that it could go out in the street and get the nut without getting hit by a car. The bird learned to wait for all the cars to stop so it could go out safely and get its meal. Anyway, the parrot is usually in the top 2 or 3 on the shows I've seen, and has been number one in a couple of them. The great apes are the only other animal that is in the one or two spot on these shows.

[apathy maybe]

I haven't seen any of these shows you talk about (I am not in the USA) and while I admit that some birds are fairly intelligent, if you put parrots at the top of all animals (excluding humans presumably) then your wrong.

(Interesting point about crows, I heard a study about some crows in New Caledonia; apparently they used a method of compressing information which they didn't need, so as to store more at one time. It worked sorta like zip works on a computer.)

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Quite a few animals are pretty smart and can mimic human speech - but it isn't the only thing they mimic, as some birds have been known to copy the sounds of phones ringing(!)

If you want to see a smart bird, look at the Kea from New Zealand, a relative of the parrot. As well as mimicking human speech, these animals display advanced problem solving capabilities. Their inquisitiveness also makes them highly destructive, as they can literally deconstruct things like bikes and cars if you leave them outside.

Animals are usually smart because of environmental pressure, but sometimes animals seem to be smart for no apparent reason, such as certain octopi and mantis shrimps.

[Severian]

Originally posted by Apathy [email protected] 20 2005, 01:34 AM
And any show that puts parrots at the top of any list of intelligent animals (even if it doesn't include humans) doesn't deserve to be funded or even watched.
Yeah. Some parrots are apparently pretty smart for birds. Some African grey parrots might even understand some of the words they're using. But chimps' use of sign language goes well beyond that.

Parrots are very good mimics; in the wild this is used to mimic other birds. Possibly mostly others of the same species - picking up the local accent so to speak. In captivity, humans voices are the main thing they have to mimic.

[Rasta Sapian]

Parrots are smart animails, they have been co-existing with mankind for hundreds if not thousands of years.

However, they are mimicks, of sound, they do have some comprehension and can show affection and do have feelings.

But unkike us, and a few other highly evolved great apes they do not have the mental capacity to reason.

p.s. If I was a pirate I would definatly have a parrot

[Clarksist]

Originally posted by 313C7 [email protected] 19 2005, 10:41 PM
Incorrect, more advanced animals can use sign language
Although I've heard that most of the signing in popular cases, at least, was almost random, and that most of it was up to interpretation.

Not that I think animals are dumb or anything.

[LSD]

There has been indication that advanced primates can learn to sign, but their signing always remains rudimentary, simplistic, and, most importantly, it appears that they are unable to think or communicate conceptually at all.

That is, they can learn the sign for water and the sign for bird, but it isn't "language", it's just association. They can't put them together. The concept of a water-bird is simply beyond them.

It would seem we are still the only specied on earth capable of true language.

[codyvo]

Like they've been saying, parrots and a few other birds have vocal chords that can mimic lots of differant ounds, ever wonder why mockingbirds are called "mocking"birds?

Also, about the apes learning sign language, they have given a house to chimps where they will live by themselves for a year. If any human wants to come the chimps have to buzz them in, and the chimps will speak to humans via computer! It really is incredible. And Coco, the gorilla, made famous by the book Coco's Kitten, now has a vocabulary of 900 words in sign language and recently told doctors he had a toothache. They took him to a veterinarian, and Coco had a cavity. Fascinating.

[Red Robe Majere]

p.s. If I was a pirate I would definatly have a parrot

pirates used monkeys more than parrots. Monkeys are more usefull on a pirate ship.


also animals are smarter than we think and make them out to be. the everyday parrot is mimicing are sounds but the ones are t.v. i think have learned what they are saying.

Where is that monkey house anyways?

[codyvo]

Idaho, I believe, not entirely sure I think I saved the newspaper article somewhere.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 03:20 AM
For example there was a crow that had a nut and wanted to get the nut out of the shell, so the crow dropped the nut in the middle of a street and then landed on the sidewalk. The cars passing by smashed open the shell, but the crow waited for the street light to change so that it could go out in the street and get the nut without getting hit by a car. The bird learned to wait for all the cars to stop so it could go out safely and get its meal.
Nice. Animals are NOT dumb. They can perceive the world that surrounds them and understand it and act according to their needs and...well, you understand what I mean.

I even saw a creationist site once that talked about how some bird living in a shopping mall and learnt to press a button to open the door to get to its nest or something. The creationist "argument": "this instinct couldn't have evolved". Which goes to show how stupid creationists can be.

But back to the parrots, I'm no expert (at all) but I guess they have good vocal chords and recognize sounds well and that kind of stuff. It seems they didn't develop a language as we humans did though. So that's why they are still "inferior". It would be cool if they did develop their own language. We would then have to face a lot of competition and finally nuke those stupid birds :o

[Numbers21]

[QUOTE]I even saw a creationist site once that talked about how some bird living in a shopping mall and learnt to press a button to open the door to get to its nest or something. The creationist "argument": "this instinct couldn't have evolved". Which goes to show how stupid creationists can be.

they are trying to say that since evolutionists believe that evolution takes millions of years, and since that shopping mall has not been around for millions of years...that the bird couldn't have slowly over millions of years learned that as an instinct; To push a shopping mall button.

[OleMarxco]

Of course: They learn't that by humans ;)

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24 2005, 08:02 PM
they are trying to say that since evolutionists believe that evolution takes millions of years, and since that shopping mall has not been around for millions of years...that the bird couldn't have slowly over millions of years learned that as an instinct; To push a shopping mall button.

How does that contradicts what I mean??? I KNOW they claimed that.

The bird LEARNT it. It's ridiculous to claim such a thing as "this instinct couldn't have evolved" since it's surely a learnt behaviour. No "evolutionist" claims this kind of things are instincts.
Considering that this is the same kind of people who likes thinking that we are sooooooooooo intelligent when compared to other animals that it's obvious their deity created us, I can come to the conclusion that cretinists are stupid.

[totalit]

Originally posted by Lysergic Acid [email protected] 1 2005, 11:21 PM
There has been indication that advanced primates can learn to sign, but their signing always remains rudimentary, simplistic, and, most importantly, it appears that they are unable to think or communicate conceptually at all.

That is, they can learn the sign for water and the sign for bird, but it isn't "language", it's just association. They can't put them together. The concept of a water-bird is simply beyond them.

It would seem we are still the only specied on earth capable of true language.
exactly...
For example, when a gorilla was signed "yesterday" He looked behind him. They'll never know theres a "yesterday", "space", or other things of that sort..

[bed_of_nails]

There are always intelligent exceptions for nearly every animal.

My Corgi has a massive base of words he understands, including peoples names. If you are talking to someone else, and say a third persons name he will often look at that third person.

We did not train him to do this. He picked up on peoples names on his own.

I believe that there are Parrots capable of comprehending what they are saying, though I doubt many of them do.

[Vallegrande]

Quite a few animals are pretty smart and can mimic human speech - but it isn't the only thing they mimic, as some birds have been known to copy the sounds of phones ringing(!)

Another large bird in the jungles of S. America can make the sound of a chainsaw, which is loud and very hard to mimic.

Something else going on in Australia or New Zealand is these parrots who used to eat off the plants are developing a taste for cows. Apparently the farming and cow grazing has caused the parrots to eat them.

About that parrot with the vocabulary, is it the Quaker parrot? That's the smaller bird that doesn't say the words as well as the larger ones. But the Quaker parrot has the biggest vocabulary. They can be really mean if they feel messed with. I had some terrible times with a quaker that me and my sister got from these people. It already had a mean streak from mis-treatment, and we didn't know what we were getting ourselves into. This bird was smart, but it was hurt so much in the past that it didn't get along with anyone. Plus it was getting attacked by cats and shit, but her beak saved her life. Overall, it was a terrible experience, so we took it to the refuge. I don't recommend owning parrots with hardy beaks as they can do damage if you dont know how to treat them. I just think birds shouldn't be in cages.

[LSD]

I believe that there are Parrots capable of comprehending what they are saying, though I doubt many of them do.

:lol:

Sorry, no. They simply lack the physiological capacity.

[pablo_max]

Sorry, no. They simply lack the physiological capacity.

Really.....how do you know?

I guess you know what animals are thinking? That's really cool!!

Seriously, you people have no idea what you're talking about. We have no idea what animals understand. We know that they talk to each other, but most researchers think they are just making random sounds because they cant find the meaning.
I'm not saying they are having conversations, but the point is, they could be.
Look at dolphins. We know they have conversations, but we dont know what they are saying.
People can only talk to people, period. A parrot can talk to parrots and people.
Get off your high horse. Sounds like typical american full of shit attitude. Who cares what you saw on tv. Until scientists learn to comunicate on their level, we'll never really know how smart they are.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 1 2005, 11:09 PM
Something else going on in Australia or New Zealand is these parrots who used to eat off the plants are developing a taste for cows. Apparently the farming and cow grazing has caused the parrots to eat them.
LOL...that must be one big parrot.

[totalit]

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/...50711013845.htm (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2005/07/050711013845.htm)

[Fidelbrand]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 06:36 AM
The only other animal that can actually talk is a goddamn parrot!!! What the hell is that about!?! Is there any scientific explanation for this? I mean, why the parrot?
Structure of the v-o-i-c-e c-o-r-d. fullstop. :D

[Eldred]

I beleive it has something to do with our frontal lobes. This piece of the brain allows one to replace one object as a symbol for another. It is because we have such large frontal lobes that facilitated the development of a semiotic based language.

They conducted a test with chimpanzees in which they represented piles of candy with numbers. They learnt to choose a lower number which was accosiated with more candy, but when they placed the candy in front of the monkeys, they always chose the bigger pile even when it meant they would recieve less candy. This is because their frontal lobes are much smaller in proportion to their brains than ours.

I'm not sure what proportion of the parrots brain is made up of the frontal lobes, but possibly because of this and the parrots amazing voice box and mimicry capabilities they are able to communicate and understand complex situations.

[Raisa]

Parrots can learn what words mean by repeating the effects of those words.

Eventually the birds learn what "come out" means whne they say "come out" and someone lets them out of the cage enough.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 10:05 PM

Sorry, no. They simply lack the physiological capacity.

Really.....how do you know?

I guess you know what animals are thinking? That's really cool!!

Seriously, you people have no idea what you're talking about. We have no idea what animals understand. We know that they talk to each other, but most researchers think they are just making random sounds because they cant find the meaning.
I'm not saying they are having conversations, but the point is, they could be.
Look at dolphins. We know they have conversations, but we dont know what they are saying.
People can only talk to people, period. A parrot can talk to parrots and people.
Get off your high horse. Sounds like typical american full of shit attitude. Who cares what you saw on tv. Until scientists learn to comunicate on their level, we'll never really know how smart they are.
we know that they communicate emotionally with each other. Animals are alot more sensitive to "vibes' and positive and negative enegery then we are.