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romanm
19th May 2005, 02:36
In Search of a
SOVIET HOLOCAUST
A 55-Year-Old Famine Feeds the Right

By Jeff Coplon

Originally published in the Village Voice (New York City), January 12, 1988.

Something therefore always remains and sticks from the most impudent lies.... The size of the lie is a definite factor in causing it to be believed."
-- Adolph Hitler, Mein Kampf

The girl is dying. She looks about five years old, but we know she may be older, diminished by hunger. She leans wearily against a gate. Her long hair falls lank about bare shoulders. Her head rests against her arm. He neck is bent, like a stalk in parched earth. Her eyes are the worse -- large and dark, glazed yet still wistful. The child is dying, starving, and we feel guilty for our witness...

The Ukrainian émigrés who made Harvest of Despair knew a gripping image when they saw one. The black-and-white still, played over an arching, minor-mode chorus, was chosen to close the Canadian documentary on the Ukrainian famine of 1932-33. The same photography was used to promote the film, to symbolize a long-dormant cause célèbre: a "man-made" famine, "deliberately engineered" by Stalin to crush Ukrainian nationalism and cow a stubborn peasantry into permanent collectivization. Seven million Ukrainians were killed, the narrator tells us, as "a nation the size of France [was] strangled by hunger."

The result, intoned William F. Buckley, whose Firing Line showed the film last November, was "perhaps the greatest holocaust of the century."

The term "holocaust" still burns the ears, even in our jaded time. As we watch the film and see corpses piled in fields, bloated bodies sprawled in streets, pale skeletons grasping for bits of bread, we wonder: How can such a terrible story have been suppressed so long?

Here is how: The story is a fraud.

The starving girl, it turns out, wasn't found in 1932 or 1933, nor in the Ukraine. Her pictures was taken from a Red Cross bulletin on the 1921-22 Volga famine, for which no one claims genocide. Rather than an emblem of persecution, the photograph advances the most cynical of swindles -- a hoax played out from the White House and Congress through the halls of Harvard to the New York State Department of Education. Pressing every pedal, pulling all the strings, is a Ukrainian nationalist lobby straining to cloak its own history of Nazi collaboration. By revising their past, these émigrés help support a more ambitious revisionism: a denial of Hitler's holocaust against the Jews.

There was indeed a famine in the Ukraine in the early 1930s. It appears likely that hundreds of thousands, possibly one or two million, Ukrainians died -- the minority from starvation, the majority from related diseases. By any scale, this is an enormous toll of human suffering. By general consensus, Stalin was partially responsible. By any stretch of an honest imagination, the tragedy still falls short of genocide.

In 1932, the Soviet Union was in crisis. The cities had suffered food shortages since 1928. Grain was desperately needed for export and foreign capital, both to fuel the first Five-Year Plan and to counter the growing war threat from Germany. In addition, the Communist Party's left wing, led by Stalin, had come to reject the New Economic Plan, which restored market capitalism to the countryside in the 1920s.

In this context, collectivization was more than a vehicle for a cheap and steady grain supply to the state. It was truly a "revolution from above," a drastic move towards socialism, and an epochal change in the mode of production. There were heavy casualties on both sides -- hundreds of thousands of kulaks (rich peasants) deported to the north, thousands of party activists assassinated. Production superseded politics, and many peasants were coerced rather than won to collective farms. Vast disruption of the 1932 harvest ensued (and not only in the Ukraine), and many areas were hard-pressed to meet the state's grain requisition quotas.

Again, Stalin and the Politburo played major roles. "But there is plenty of blame to go around," as Sovietologist John Arch Getty recently noted in The London Review of Books. "It must be shared by the tens of thousands of activists and officials who carried out the policy and by the peasants who chose to slaughter animals, burn fields, and boycott cultivation in protest."

Such a balanced analysis, however, has never satisfied Ukrainian nationalists in the United States and Canada, for whom the "terror-famine" is an article of faith and communal rallying point. For decades after the fact, their obsession was confined to émigré journals. Only of late has it achieved a sort of mainstream credibility -- in Harvest of Despair, shown on PBS and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation and at numerous college campuses; in The Harvest of Sorrow, an Oxford University Press account by Robert Conquest; in a "human rights" curriculum, now available to every 10th-grade social studies teacher in New York State; and in the federally-funded Ukraine Famine Commission, now into its second year of "hearings."

After 50 years on the fringe, the Ukraine famine debate is finally front and center. While one-note faminologists may teach us little real history, they reveal how our sense of history is pulled by political fashion until it hardens into the taffy of conventional wisdom. And how you can fool most of the people most of the time -- especially when you tell them what they want to hear.

Full piece at:
http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/vv.html

kirov78
19th May 2005, 12:07
As the Republican bourgoisie complains about Soviet measures, they ignore the holocaust of millions living in poverty because of imperialism. This holocaust spans centuries. The Soviets may have engaged in regretable actions, but all for a cause to end a holocaust which predated their very existence. Complaining about it would be not much different than complaining about the police officer arresting a murderer...afterall, the police officer had denied the rights of the murderer as far as free passage is concerned. We'll cry for the Ukraine when the capitalists cry for Africa.

Bolshevist
19th May 2005, 14:15
Here is a very good text about Ukraine and the famine: http://www.stalinsociety.org.uk/ukrainian.html

bolshevik butcher
19th May 2005, 19:36
oh stalin society that's not gonna be bias. My grandad lived through this famine, don't give me your shite.

Bolshevist
19th May 2005, 20:12
Why don't you try to add something constructive to this discussion rather than resorting to name calling?

Redmau5
19th May 2005, 20:20
He didnt call you anything. He asked you not to talk shit, which i agree with.

Bolshevist
19th May 2005, 20:29
Sorry, I misread his post -_-

enigma2517
19th May 2005, 21:07
Can't we adopt a moderate stance here?

Did the famine happen? Sure
Did it kill as many people as the right wing claims? Probably not

Some people say that "Stalin killed more people than Hitler" or that they were about equal. Regardless of numbers, was the famine about directing resources towards modernization and the ultimate survival of the nation or was it part of an ethnic cleansing program? I certaintly don't think they're the same thing.

In the end, the famine happened, but much of things said about it are highly exaggerated.

Bolshevist
19th May 2005, 22:28
From the article, as to why the famine occured:


While drought was a contributing factor, the main cause of the famine was the struggle around collectivisation of the countryside in this period. In 1928 there were millions of small scale peasant farms, three quarters of the land was sown by hand, one third of the crop areas was harvested by sickle and scythe, 40% of the crop was threshed by flail. Over one quarter of peasant households possessed no draught animals or farming implements, and 47% had only ploughs. The drive to collectivisation was a key feature of the first five year plan launched in 1929. The small minority of rich peasants, the kulaks, opposed socialisation of agriculture and fought against collectivisation with an organised campaign of large-scale destruction. The struggle in some areas including the Ukraine approached civil war scale. Visiting foreign observers at the time noted that kulak opposition took the form of slaughtering their cattle and horses rather than having them collectivised. From 1928-33 the number of horses in the Soviet Union fell from 30 to 15 million, cattle from 70 to 38 million, sheep and goats from 147 to 50 million. Some kulaks burned down the property of collectives and even burned their own crops and seed grain. Many famine-genocide theorists discount kulak sabotage, but others offer enthusiastic descriptions celebrating the opposition to Soviet planning. In addition the famine was compounded by typhus epidemics which undoubtedly claimed many lives. By 1933 there was a successful harvest, enormous efforts were put into improving collective farms and providing mechanised equipment.

Eastside Revolt
20th May 2005, 00:50
Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 19 2005, 06:36 PM
oh stalin society that's not gonna be bias. My grandad lived through this famine, don't give me your shite.
Look, I'm not in favor of any North Korean style socialim either.

However, even Canada's History channel had a peice on this so I wouldn't entirely place it under Stalinist propaganda.

redwinter
20th May 2005, 01:02
Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 08:07 PM
Can't we adopt a moderate stance here?

Did the famine happen? Sure
Did it kill as many people as the right wing claims? Probably not

Some people say that "Stalin killed more people than Hitler" or that they were about equal. Regardless of numbers, was the famine about directing resources towards modernization and the ultimate survival of the nation or was it part of an ethnic cleansing program? I certaintly don't think they're the same thing.

In the end, the famine happened, but much of things said about it are highly exaggerated.
So when you are presented with two different views coming from two sources you consider biased, you just take the middle position? That isn't very scientific. I think the claims of famine made by Ukrainian nazis against the socialist state should be investigated using primary sources, not by reading polemics from various sources and extrapolating an answer based on your opinions of who is doing the writing.

bolshevik butcher
20th May 2005, 14:47
Originally posted by redcanada+May 19 2005, 11:50 PM--> (redcanada @ May 19 2005, 11:50 PM)
Clenched [email protected] 19 2005, 06:36 PM
oh stalin society that's not gonna be bias. My grandad lived through this famine, don't give me your shite.
Look, I'm not in favor of any North Korean style socialim either.

However, even Canada's History channel had a peice on this so I wouldn't entirely place it under Stalinist propaganda. [/b]
sorry, the famine did happen htough, and it was designed to destroy the resistance of the ukranieans, maybe it wasn't as severe as it as made out to be, but it did happen, And the glaugs also happened, stlainw as a brutal dictator.

Hiero
20th May 2005, 16:14
Originally posted by Clenched Fist+May 21 2005, 12:47 AM--> (Clenched Fist @ May 21 2005, 12:47 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 11:50 PM

Clenched [email protected] 19 2005, 06:36 PM
oh stalin society that's not gonna be bias. My grandad lived through this famine, don't give me your shite.
Look, I'm not in favor of any North Korean style socialim either.

However, even Canada's History channel had a peice on this so I wouldn't entirely place it under Stalinist propaganda.
sorry, the famine did happen htough, and it was designed to destroy the resistance of the ukranieans, maybe it wasn't as severe as it as made out to be, but it did happen, And the glaugs also happened, stlainw as a brutal dictator. [/b]
You don't even consider any facts other that Stalin is a big a meanie who had it out of the Ukranians.

bolshevik butcher
20th May 2005, 23:29
Originally posted by Hiero+May 20 2005, 03:14 PM--> (Hiero @ May 20 2005, 03:14 PM)
Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 21 2005, 12:47 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 11:50 PM

Clenched [email protected] 19 2005, 06:36 PM
oh stalin society that's not gonna be bias. My grandad lived through this famine, don't give me your shite.
Look, I'm not in favor of any North Korean style socialim either.

However, even Canada's History channel had a peice on this so I wouldn't entirely place it under Stalinist propaganda.
sorry, the famine did happen htough, and it was designed to destroy the resistance of the ukranieans, maybe it wasn't as severe as it as made out to be, but it did happen, And the glaugs also happened, stlainw as a brutal dictator.
You don't even consider any facts other that Stalin is a big a meanie who had it out of the Ukranians. [/b]
Eh this thread was about that wasn't it? Ok what about he fact that he banned strikes, and failed the spannish revolution and the british general striuke of 1926?

Redmau5
21st May 2005, 11:18
british general striuke of 1926

Stalin wasn't in power in 1926

Hiero
21st May 2005, 14:18
Stalin just fucked the world.

"failed the spannish revolution" Wow i thought the Spainaids would be the ones to blame.

Lamanov
21st May 2005, 21:01
Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 10:18 AM

british general striuke of 1926

Stalin wasn't in power in 1926
Stalin - in power since 1923. :huh: :blink: <_<

bolshevik butcher
21st May 2005, 22:46
Originally posted by DJ&#045;TC+May 21 2005, 08:01 PM--> (DJ-TC @ May 21 2005, 08:01 PM)
[email protected] 21 2005, 10:18 AM

british general striuke of 1926

Stalin wasn&#39;t in power in 1926
Stalin - in power since 1923. :huh: :blink: <_< [/b]
yeh i was just gonna say that.

The Garbage Disposal Unit
22nd May 2005, 05:35
Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 20 2005, 01:47 PM
. . . it was designed to destroy the resistance of the ukranieans . . .
Er . . . evidence?

I&#39;ve seen plenty that showed their was a famine, and plenty more to show that forced collectivization was an important cause, but nothing that realisticly indicates the famine was "designed" much less so with any purpose.

Bolshevist
23rd May 2005, 18:16
Originally posted by DJ&#045;TC+May 21 2005, 08:01 PM--> (DJ-TC @ May 21 2005, 08:01 PM)
[email protected] 21 2005, 10:18 AM

british general striuke of 1926

Stalin wasn&#39;t in power in 1926
Stalin - in power since 1923. :huh: :blink: <_< [/b]
in 1923, Stalin had the postition of General Secretary, a postition that gives no state power. It is merely a administrative one postition.

kirov78
26th May 2005, 11:22
Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 08:07 PM
Can&#39;t we adopt a moderate stance here?

Did the famine happen? Sure
Did it kill as many people as the right wing claims? Probably not

Some people say that "Stalin killed more people than Hitler" or that they were about equal. Regardless of numbers, was the famine about directing resources towards modernization and the ultimate survival of the nation or was it part of an ethnic cleansing program? I certaintly don&#39;t think they&#39;re the same thing.

In the end, the famine happened, but much of things said about it are highly exaggerated.
An excellent point.

Severian
26th May 2005, 11:45
Originally posted by redwinter+May 19 2005, 06:02 PM--> (redwinter &#064; May 19 2005, 06:02 PM)
[email protected] 19 2005, 08:07 PM
Can&#39;t we adopt a moderate stance here?

Did the famine happen? Sure
Did it kill as many people as the right wing claims? Probably not

Some people say that "Stalin killed more people than Hitler" or that they were about equal. Regardless of numbers, was the famine about directing resources towards modernization and the ultimate survival of the nation or was it part of an ethnic cleansing program? I certaintly don&#39;t think they&#39;re the same thing.

In the end, the famine happened, but much of things said about it are highly exaggerated.
So when you are presented with two different views coming from two sources you consider biased, you just take the middle position? That isn&#39;t very scientific. I think the claims of famine made by Ukrainian nazis against the socialist state should be investigated using primary sources, not by reading polemics from various sources and extrapolating an answer based on your opinions of who is doing the writing. [/b]
A lot of historians have done just that. And the article at the beginning of this thread pretty accurately summarizes their quite reasonable conclusions.

Here&#39;s a more detailed look at things - PDF format (http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/taugerroterhol.pdf) It&#39;s a response to a chapter of the "Black Book of Communism."

Enigma asks: "was the famine about directing resources towards modernization and the ultimate survival of the nation or was it part of an ethnic cleansing program?"

Eh...neither. It was caused by a wrongheaded and disastrous policy of forced collectivization, which also did permanent damage to Soviet agriculture production.

ÑóẊîöʼn
26th May 2005, 14:10
I too would like to see the evidence that the famine in the Ukraine was caused deliberately and was not just a side-effect of the collectivisation policies of the USSR.

romanm
26th May 2005, 16:06
The Black Book of Communism is filled with all kinds of distortions and lies. There are also glaring mathematical errors that have been exposed by MIM and admited by the editor - misplaced decimal points and so on. MIM forced the editor to admit some of his errors. Check out the MIM page on the Black Book of Communism. (http://www.etext.org/Politics/MIM/agitation/blackbook/index.html)