Workers' Militias

[Paradox]

Workers' militias will be necessary to defend the revolution. But how will they be organized? The people themselves will be armed, and these weapons will have to be expropriated, but how will these militias be structured? What type of training will the people be given? They have to learn some kind of tactics and be trained somewhere, so how will it be done? We can't just give them rifles and pistols and say "Here. Go defend the revolution." I was just wondering about that right now after reading some of Luxemburg's work. It made me wonder where exactly would the people be trained, what type of training they would be given, and so forth. I also wondered when such training would take place. Obviously, I think, training would have to be received prior to the revolution actually materializing, so that they are prepared to defend the revolution when it occurs, from the reactionary forces. I also thought that paintball could be useful in training for such actions. It helps with reaction time, close quarters combat, caution, and so on. Of course, not everyone has access to paintball facilities, but they could purchase paintball guns and practice in nearby terrain. This are just a few thoughts, and I don't know that it would be applicable, but it does seem useful. Anyways, how do you think the workers' militias will be trained and organized?

[Colombia]

To be honest the only way I can see a militia being a thing to be respected is by ruling it just like it is in today's world. Without direction they will crumble.

[Enragé]

well in combat at least i think they should be commanded just like armies are commanded today (with a strict hierarchy), however when they are off of the front line, regulations dont have to be that strict.

Also it would be most desirable for the militia to defend the region they came from. This would create strong ties with the local population and the chance to engage in extensive guerilla warfare.

[Paradox]

The following was taken from Luxemburg's "What Does the Spartacus League Want?"


I. As immediate measures to protect the Revolution:
1. Disarmament of the entire police force and of all officers and nonproletarian soldiers; disarmament of all members of the ruling classes.

2. Confiscation of all weapons and munitions stocks as well as armaments factories by workers' and soldiers' councils.

3. Arming of the entire adult male proletarian population as a workers' militia. Creation of a Red Guard of proletarians as an active part of the militia for the constant protection of the Revolution against counter-revolutionary attacks and subversions.

4. Abolition of the command authority of officers and noncommissioned officers. Replacement of the military cadaverdiscipline by voluntary discipline of the soldiers. Election of all officers by their units, with right of immediate recall at any time. Abolition of the system of military justice.

5. Expulsion of officers and capitulationists from all soldiers' councils.

6. Replacement of all political organs and authorities of the former regime by delegates of the workers' and soldiers' councils.

7. Establishment of a revolutionary tribunal to try the chief criminals responsible for starting and prolonging the war, the Hohehollens, Ludendorif, Hindenburg, Tirpitz, and their accomplices, together with all the conspirators of counter-revolution.

8. Immediate confiscation of all foodstuffs to secure the feeding of the people.

In regards to point three, now I would say that the entire adult population should be armed, not just the adult males. This would of course, exclude anyone not capable of physically handling a firearm. As far as what's considered an "adult," that's open to debate.

In reference to point four, I would agree that any officers in such militias would be chosen by the people themselves and would be recallable.

This, however, still does not go into detail as to how, when, and perhaps most importantly where the workers will be trained for such activity. Again, I think anyone who can target practice, who has a weapon, should do so. And I think paintball is quite useful in getting an idea of what it's like to be shot at, which is of course very important when considering serving in any such militias. It's not enough to know how to aim and shoot, you have to know how to avoid getting shot yourself.

[Lamanov]

units organised by workplace [committees, syndicates - work colegues together]; command by prior election?

training? i have no idea :P

[RedLenin]

Arming of the entire adult male proletarian population as a workers' militia

I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree. I think the entire population should be able to bear arms. However, I think all militias should be voluntary, so anyone who does not wish to fight does not have to. Plus, Im not necessary sure of this "adults only" policy. I would not hesitate to let teenagers fight if they so choose.


Abolition of the command authority of officers and noncommissioned officers. Replacement of the military cadaverdiscipline by voluntary discipline of the soldiers. Election of all officers by their units, with right of immediate recall at any time. Abolition of the system of military justice.

Again, I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree. I think there should be direct democracy within the councils. I think all officers should be elected and all decisions voted on. However, I think that once a decision is voted on, all should be required to participate. I also think that soldiers should be subservient to their officers during combat.

And you right paintball is a good method of training. It teaches you how to be tactical, it gives you physical training, and it helps you to learn how to move during combat. Some good tactical paintball warefare in a forest with a squad or something is very good training. I just hope it doesnt get to be too violent in a revolutionary situation.

[Paradox]

However, I think all militias should be voluntary, so anyone who does not wish to fight does not have to.

Agreed. You don't have to participate. If you object to taking part in violence of any kind, i.e. defense from reactionary attacks, that's your choice. No one will force you to participate in violence.


Plus, Im not necessary sure of this "adults only" policy. I would not hesitate to let teenagers fight if they so choose.

Which is why I said the age at which someone is considered an "adult" is up for debate. If someone's a teenager, yet they demonstrate maturity and responsibility, which would obviously be required for handling and using firearms, then yes, they could be included.


I think the entire population should be able to bear arms.

Yes. Even those who don't necessarily want to participate in the workers' militias would be able to obtain firearms for their homes, in the event that they would have to defend themselves. Because even if they object to taking part in the militias, one can never truly know how he or she will react in a situation. That being said, all will have access to means of self-defense, which includes more than just firearms of course.


I think there should be direct democracy within the councils. I think all officers should be elected and all decisions voted on.

Well, Luxemburg does say in that point which you quoted that all officers will be elected, and that they will be recallable at any time. So yes, the councils will operate on direct democracy, and any actions, decisions will be voted upon.


I also think that soldiers should be subservient to their officers during combat.

True. But this raises the question, where will we get officers? Will we train our own? Which again leads to the question, where and how will these militias be trained? We've established that paintball is good for training, and that anyone with a weapon should practice with it, but what of those who have no weapons or access to paintball facilities or shooting ranges where one can rent a firearm?

Getting back to the question of officers, I refer back to point one from those quoted by Luxemburg:


1. Disarmament of the entire police force and of all officers and nonproletarian soldiers; disarmament of all members of the ruling classes.

Could those soldiers, the proletarian soldiers who are not disarmed be a source for possible officers? Still, I think the militias would have to be already established before anyone could be disarmed, or any of Luxemburg's points carried out.

[coda]

I think they should be organized like the Bolivarian Circles.

[Weatherman Underground]

I suggest reading A Homage to Catalonia by George Orwell. In it he describes how the anarchist militias were run on egalitarian principles and modeled the ideals of the revolution they were fighting for. He conjectured that it was their unique structure that accounted for their high morale and continued revolutionary fervor. At the begining of the Spanish Civil War as the civil gaurds sided with the fascists and Franco's army approached, it was the hastily assembled workers militias of the CNT that held off their advance.

Check it out:
http://www.george-orwell.org/Homage_to_Catalonia/

[workersunity]

i really like that luxembourg thing, got a site that has the whole thing on it

[Paradox]

i really like that luxembourg thing, got a site that has the whole thing on it?

Not a problem my friend. ;)

"What Does the Spartacus League Want?":

http://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1918/12/14.htm

Luxemburg archive:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/index.htm

[RASH chris]

I too would agree with the model proposed by the CNT during the Spanish civil war.

Training, paintball is not effective. I played paintball for a long time, and I have some pretty good experience with real firearms. The similarities are slim. If I had a guy who said "I played paintball I'm ready for the militia" I'd take his gun away for fear of him fucking up and the militia having one less gun. Paintball encourages you to do things which you should never do in combat. For instance, cover and concealment. Cover stops bulletts, concealment allows you to hide. Cover would be bricks or sandbags, concealment would be tall grass or thick brush. Yet in paintball tall grass and thick brush will stop incoming paintballs. And the old maxim is "as you train so shall you fight", so this obviously encourages bad combat habits. Paintball also encourages you to take unecessary risks, cause if you get shot in paintball you get a welt and you come back in 20 mins later. If you took the same risks on the battlefield you get shot, now two guys have to take you off the field, and you have to get a doctor, and assuming you're lucky enough to live, you might not be able to come back to the front again, and we've lost a soldier. Not to mention the extreme differences in range between a paintball fired at 275 feet per second, and a 5.56 caliber bullett fired at a couple thousand feet per second.

The right wing has lots of militias. I reccomend lurking at www.awrm.org. I lurk there at least once a month, they're non-racist and all, just a little kooky, but many are ex military and know what they're talking about. And how to prepare, gear, and yes, training.

[Paradox]

If I had a guy who said "I played paintball I'm ready for the militia" I'd take his gun away for fear of him fucking up and the militia having one less gun.

We're not saying that it's an exact replication of actual combat, just something useful in so far as it does help you think before you act. I mean, if you know someone is going to be shooting at you, you're not just going to walk out nonchalant, no. You're going to search for cover, try to conceal yourself and wait for your enemy to reveal him/herself. And of course, paintball wouldn't be the sole requirement. People would obviously have to have been trained how to properly use a firearm. They would have to know safety procedures, probably basic gunsmithing and takedown of the firearm, and so on.


Paintball also encourages you to take unecessary risks, cause if you get shot in paintball you get a welt and you come back in 20 mins later.

Well, the idea is that you pretend that you just got shot with an actual bullet. If your get hit in paintball, you're out of the game. So, if you had been in combat, you'd be out for real. You wouldn't be able to come back "20 mins later."


Not to mention the extreme differences in range between a paintball fired at 275 feet per second, and a 5.56 caliber bullett fired at a couple thousand feet per second.

Yes, that it is one of the major differences. But, don't the military and police train with paintball? But I think they specialized guns for that, so that might explain why it's more effective for them.

Overall though, I guess you do have a point. Which again leaves the questions basically unanswered. I'll check that link though. Perhaps it will prove useful.

[Weatherman Underground]

It's important to remember that the revolution will not occur by the actions of a group of small, highly trained, elite revolutionaries that magically inspire everyone to rise up in revolution. It takes mass action by the workers, which to me is more important than specifics of training. Of course a time will come for that, but what is the use in preparing for that at this early date? Before there can be revolutions there must be revolutionary organizations and a revolutionary class.

[Paradox]

I reccomend lurking at www.awrm.org.

Well, the gear section I thought was rather obvious, about what one would need. But for someone who isn't sure, yeah that would prove helpful. I didn't find tactics though. I had clicked on a link that happened to be pdf, and my computer doesn't like pdfs, sort of freezes and takes forever when I open them, so I just closed the page.


It's important to remember that the revolution will not occur by the actions of a group of small, highly trained, elite revolutionaries that magically inspire everyone to rise up in revolution.

True.


Of course a time will come for that, but what is the use in preparing for that at this early date? Before there can be revolutions there must be revolutionary organizations and a revolutionary class.

Gotta have a plan. Always be prepared. It'll come up sooner or later, why not be ready when it does?

[RASH chris]

I think the most important flaw with paintball is that it only teaches you how to play paintball. Paintball is very different from combat. Paintball is hardly more effective than tag or hide & seek. The only real benefits are communication, getting used to being shot at, and learning about angles and lines of fire type things.

When the cops and military use paintball they use something called "simunitions" which is a paintball loaded into a reall shell fired by gunpowder out of a real firearm. And it is a lot more powerful than paintball. Plus they only use this as a training tactic for what's known as CQB (close quarters battle) and MOUT (military operations in urban terrain) because in such environments the engagement distances are much closer than in rural combat. And so yes, if you have the ability to replicate an urban setting then paintball would be a valuable training tool. But in the traditional rural setting paintball has some serious flaws. The major one being the cover/concealment issue and the range difference issue.

The thing is, there will always be former military on our side to train and lead. And a lot of things aren't hard to pick up, i.e...

You set up behind a corner which allows you to see the area you presume the enemy will come from. Preferably so that they will emerge with thier side to you. When they do, you let a few walk out then open fire. The enemy is going to drop to the ground, spread out, and/or fall back. At this point you pick up and haul ass.
^That's pretty much how you fight when you have the bum end of technology/gear/tactics/experience and everything else.

Combat is all just about movement, always trying to get behind and on the side of the enemy. And if you keep moving then it's hard for them to bring artillery on you. And as long as you keep to small fire teams (i.e 7 members) then the odds of them calling for air support on you are slim.

But traditionally guerrillas (as we will be) try to attack not in the field, but behind the lines. Sabatoge is the name of the game. For instance, it is virtually impossible to take out an Apache attack helicopter, or an M1 Abrams main battle tank. But it's realatively easy to sneak into the motor pool and toss a few sticks of dynamite into the barrel of the tank's main gun, and to throw a molotov in the hatch. It's also a lot easier to sneak onto the base and plant some explosives around the pilots' barracks than it is to shoot a F16 out of the sky.



Well, the gear section I thought was rather obvious, about what one would need. But for someone who isn't sure, yeah that would prove helpful. I didn't find tactics though. I had clicked on a link that happened to be pdf, and my computer doesn't like pdfs, sort of freezes and takes forever when I open them, so I just closed the page.

Yeah I just shot over there and I see that the board is down. My bad! I'll look through myu favorites and shit and find another good militia site.

[workersunity]

thanks for the links ;)

[RASH chris]

Aight ladies and gents, more websites for you to set off the FBI's watch list...

http://www.logicsouth.com/%7Elcoble/password/survival.html

^That has crap loads of documents on all kinds of surival/tactical things. Some are text, some are zip, some are htm

www.americanminuteman.net

^Go to the forum, has a reasonable ammount of info. And no, I don't believe it's related to those guys who "protected our border" with Mexico.

www.survivalforum.com

^Again, hit up the forums. You'll find militia stuff and survivalist nutjob stuff, which can be fun to read when bored.


And with all the discussion of paintball I feel compelled to mention airsoft, the cooler alternative. You use guns that are replicas of real weapons, removeable magazines, select fire etc. It's what I do now instead of paintball, and it's far more about military simulation, and many of the other people are former military. Hit up www.redwolfairsoft.com to see some guns and gear and stuff and www.airsoftretreat.com for a nice little airsoft community.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Originally posted by Weatherman [email protected] 19 2005, 03:06 AM
It's important to remember that the revolution will not occur by the actions of a group of small, highly trained, elite revolutionaries that magically inspire everyone to rise up in revolution. It takes mass action by the workers, which to me is more important than specifics of training. Of course a time will come for that, but what is the use in preparing for that at this early date? Before there can be revolutions there must be revolutionary organizations and a revolutionary class.
Sort of ironic coming from someone with the name 'Weatherman Underground', don't you think? :P

[Martin Blank]

Based on our own concrete experiences, we think that the organization and development of workers' self-defense units (militia) will be both spontaneous and conscious. Many self-defense units will organize independently of any call to action by the proletarian movement, and will already have the basic training needed to cohere as a fighting force. Other self-defense bodies will likely be organized by elements of the proletarian movement, but these will be more than likely be detachments of the organizations that built them.

As for training, there are already many working people who can serve as trainers, chiefs and commanders for self-defense forces. In the U.S., for example, many workers volunteered for military service for economic reasons. As the proletarian movement grows and becomes a mass movement, many of these former soldiers will join in the struggle, and can be tapped to help in the organization and training of self-defense units. Moreover, there will be workers that have been a part of irregular military groups (e.g., the "citizens' militia" groups) that are won over to the revolution.

Beyond that, in a situation outside of having this cadre of trained soldiers, other options are available. The value (or lack thereof) of paintball as a training method has been discussed already. A friend of mine often suggests that comrades who want to develop some basic military discipline should involve themselves in historical military re-enactment (he's a Civil War re-enactor, so he's also a little biased). There is something to his argument, though: learning to shoot straight is only one part of operating like a military unit; discipline and close-order drill are also important elements. Re-enacting offers that training, he says. From what I've seen, I tend to agree with him.

Miles

[RASH chris]

Beeing a civil war reenactor and haveing been a former Air Force Auxiliary cadet I agree that drill is important. Not to actualy learn how to move and things like that, but because it teaches team work, and the immediate response to commande, both of which are vital in a combat situation.

This reminds me of the movie "Land and Freedom" (was that the name?) about an English trot who goes to Spain to fight in the POUM, and I recall a scene where the POUM is drilling (marching in formation) and one of the anarchist workers explodes with discontent and throws her drill rifle across the square in frsutration because she doesn't like the hierarchy and strict military discipline. And then she is explained the necessity of such menial and tedious tasks in training to make them battle effecient. (and no, I don't really know why I talked about that)

[workersunity]

this whole issue of workers milities is very interesing to me, lets get goin on it comrades

[Paradox]

this whole issue of workers milities is very interesing to me, lets get goin on it comrades

Well, that's easier said than done. And we're not in a revolutionary situation, but working on a sort of plan of action, a guide perhaps, could prove useful for when the occasion arises.

I need to go back through it, but Che Guevara's Guerrilla Warfare, do you see it as useful? Also Sun Tzu's Art of War? I've seen books at barnes and noble that are issued by the military on things such as counter-intelligence, combat training, survival, and so on. Could these books prove useful?

I have pondered about air-soft as well. That would seem pretty useful, seeing that the rifles are full-size replicas of actual weapons.

Here's a site a comrade supplied me with a while back:

http://www.bellum.nu/basics.html

Let me know what you think.

[workersunity]

I own a copy of Guerilla warfare by che, and i believe he also had another one called guerilla warfare:a method, and mao had one called guerilla warfare

[RASH chris]

Again, airsoft is just more of a game. It has essentially he same flaws as paintball. But I'd say it might be a little better due to the added sense of realism.

I've not read Che's or Mao's books, but I imagine they would be useful to planers and tacticians moreso than militiamen. And sun Tzu's book is more oriented towards the planner as well, as it's not so much about strategy as it is about tactics and ideas.

The military field manuals are quite useful, as they are how the US military operates, and they are one the best militaries in the world. I reccomend the following manuals:

FM 3-05.70-survival
FM 3-23.30-grenades and pyrotechnic signals
FM 3-25.26-Map reading and land navigation
FM 4-25.11-First Aid
FM 7-0-Training the force
FM 7-1-Battle Focused Training
FM 7-21.13-the soldiers guide
FM 7-22.7-The Army Noncomisioned Officer Guide (sargent's guide)
FM 20-3-Camofaluge, Concealment, and Decoys
FM 21-10-Field Sanitation
FM 22-6-Guard Duty
FM 27-10-The law of land warfare

^Many of those can be found here:http://pubs.armystudyguide.com/FM/

FM 34-1-Intelligence and Electronic Warfare Operations
FM 34-3-Intelligence Analysis
FM 34-60-Counterintelligence
FM 100-5-Operations
FM 34-52-Intelligence Interrogations

Those are the ones I could come up with for a quick list. But there are more useful ones I just can't remember. Like the Ranger manual, boobytraps, etc. But that list is definitely enough to get a soldier started. And there are plenty of books you can pick up about Green Berets, the SAS, Navy SEALs, The IRA, etc.

[Martin Blank]

I would also recommend, along with what anarchopunkchris is proposing, reading through the two-volume Hardee's Rifle and Light Infantry Tactics. It is useful for unarmed actions of a self-defense force (e.g., marshalling/stewarding at a demonstration), when massed people are needed to fight off disruptors, provocateurs and cops. The maneuvering and close-order drill comes in handy when fending off a flying wedge formation.

Miles

P.S.: Yes, apc, my friend recommended it to us, and I'm glad he did.

[RASH chris]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 07:16 AM
I would also recommend, along with what anarchopunkchris is proposing, reading through the two-volume Hardee's Rifle and Light Infantry Tactics. It is useful for unarmed actions of a self-defense force (e.g., marshalling/stewarding at a demonstration), when massed people are needed to fight off disruptors, provocateurs and cops. The maneuvering and close-order drill comes in handy when fending off a flying wedge formation.

Miles

P.S.: Yes, apc, my friend recommended it to us, and I'm glad he did.
Outstanding idea! I hadn't even thought of how useful Hardees could be at a protest.

[workersunity]

hey miles you know where i could get a copy of that, and is anything written by communist authors on the subject of workers militias.. organization etc...

[bunk]

It would be quite good to read the U.S army manual for M.O.U.T. It has good diagrams ad pictures and covers all aspects.

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 06:50 PM
hey miles you know where i could get a copy of that, and is anything written by communist authors on the subject of workers militias.. organization etc...
Here's a link to an illustrated Hardee's (you want "Hardee's 1862" in the Drill Manual section -- sorry about the background music and all that). You'll have to be a little creative and do some adaptation on the fly, but it should not be that difficult.

http://home.att.net/~Cap1MD/Drill.htm

Miles

[Martin Blank]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20 2005, 12:47 PM
Outstanding idea! I hadn't even thought of how useful Hardees could be at a protest.
We've used it in the past when we've helped to organize marshalling at demonstrations -- especially antifascist demos and on picket lines. Combined with using normally harmless items as defensive weapons (e.g., marbles work great for up-ending cop horses), we have been able to keep the lines secured on a number of occasions.

Miles

[workersunity]

damn im gonna have to look through that comrade, we should meet up and discuss tactics, comrade

[RASH chris]

Originally posted by [email protected] 21 2005, 07:58 PM
damn im gonna have to look through that comrade, we should meet up and discuss tactics, comrade
Haha plus 20 Komintern points for saying comrade twice in one sentence! :P