The Right to Exist

[Man of the Century]

Recently someone wrote about whether Isreal had a right to exist. Normally I would continue their thread, but there was a deeper issue that applies to every nation state from Isreal to Cuba, from the United States of America to Sweden.

I thought I would start the ball rolling and see how others feel.

(Perhaps this shouldn't be in the "Politics" section. But...)


Nothing has the "right" to exist.

States exist, pure and simple.

What was once the land of Mexico is now the land of the United States of America. But the lands of Mexico were once the lands of Spain, and they were the lands of the Aztec, and they were the lands of various other tribes the Aztecs beat up on. Before them came the Maya. Before them were the Olmec.

People continue what is farmiliar to them, and, as Jefferson wrote in the Declaration, people tend to accept things as they are even where moderately uncomfortable, because of custom and normalcy.

Do I have a right to live in my home and cook on my BBQ and swim in my pool and tell the world to fuck off becuase it's mine? This is a deep question that sounds philosophical, but is mainly physical, because I'm here and noone else is here on my land.

[New Tolerance]

Nothing has the "right" to exist.

So you are saying that humans also has no right to exist? That is, it is morally ok for me to come over to your house and murder your entire family?

Humans has the right to exist, oppressive dictatorships do not.


What was once the land of Mexico is now the land of the United States of America. But the lands of Mexico were once the lands of Spain, and they were the lands of the Aztec, and they were the lands of various other tribes the Aztecs beat up on. Before them came the Maya. Before them were the Olmec.

People continue what is farmiliar to them, and, as Jefferson wrote in the Declaration, people tend to accept things as they are even where moderately uncomfortable, because of custom and normalcy.

Do I have a right to live in my home and cook on my BBQ and swim in my pool and tell the world to fuck off becuase it's mine? This is a deep question that sounds philosophical, but is mainly physical, because I'm here and noone else is here on my land.

I fail to see how this is supposed to show whether if anything has the right to exist.

[monkeydust]

Interesting...

My personal grip with the assumed "right" of states to exist lies in the general source from which this "right" has usually stemmed.

In many cases now, certainly in the earlier 20th century, states were assumed to have a right to exist because of nationalism.

It was thought that nations, as distinct groups with common interests, should have the "right" to express their nationhood through their own state - with its own laws geared towards its own nation.

I believe that this whole theory is built upon a concpetion of the importance and difference between nations that does not or should not exist in reality.

[Nirvus System]

Originally posted by New [email protected] 18 2005, 12:39 AM
So you are saying that humans also has no right to exist?
I think what is saying is we don't have the 'right' - we just do.

Rights are something that are bestowed upon us. "Something that is due to a person or governmental body by law, tradition, or nature."

I see it is we don't have the right to exist nor do we not have the right to exist either. We exist plain and simple and there is nothing anyone can do about it.

The state of Isreal is the same way. It will exist, regardless if we think they have the 'right' to exist.

I guess it could always be forced not to exist, if a large military force came in and took it from them, then displaced every person from that state, then renamed the state.

[apathy maybe]

Because nation-states are tools of oppression, they do not have the right to exist.

Thus we should work to abolish them.

As to whether rocks or trees or humans have the right to exist, what sort of question is that?

[New Tolerance]

As a short note:

Rights outlines the proper way a human should act. Example: the right to life means that no man SHOULD ACT to end the life of another man par se. etc etc

Rights has no direct relation to casuality though, so it makes no sense what so ever to say that we exist because we have rights. Rights dictate what man SHOULD DO happen, not what HAS HAPPENED. (I'm referring to the "We just exist" statement)

That might been the cause of any confusion if there was any.

[OleMarxco]

I'd like to make a simple answer on this thread:
The right to exist don't exist. It's only but a burgeouis concept ;)
The end :D

[Nirvus System]

Dude, I don't even understand that at all.