Sexism still Prevalent in North America?

[*Hippie*]

Many people I talk to seem to think because women have the right to vote and be in the workforce, there is no sexism in North America. But I always hear people refer to "biological differences" and stating they are facts when in fact they are only theory.

Many people still treat women as sex objects, you just have to look at the number of strip clubs featuring female dancers as opposed to male dancers or the pornograhpy industry which caters mostly to males. The female sex drive is diminished in comparison to the male and is made to seem inferior. Women's sexuality is still repressed for the most part, but what is the reason?

Men still have to fight harder for custody because it is most often given to women (why?). Should it not be given to the better parent or split equality between the couple?

I won't even get into the sexism in the major political parties and government.
Sexism is the main reason why I chose not to have children. I could never stand to be seen as a second class citizen because I am female. I feel women are looked down upon in North America for having children and there is still such a stigma attached. :ph34r:

I am open to hearing what you all think.
One of the main reasons why I support communism is I think it would lead to true equality. At least as close as we could get.

[coda]

<<<<Sexism is the main reason why I chose not to have children. I could never stand to be seen as a second class citizen because I am female. I feel women are looked down upon in North America for having children and there is still such a stigma attached. >>>>


I get the exact opposite here in the US. I&#39;m not having children either --- The main reason -- I can&#39;t afford to support any on my own and that&#39;s the only way I&#39;d do it-- as I have nothing against the little bastards otherwise. :) They&#39;re rather cute little shits. So, I get the whole stigma from not having had any --- And Let me tell ya-- it is HUGE&#33;&#33;

I am also vehemently pro-father rights. Single father&#39;s get a bad deal but yet pay out the ass in child support. :(

And also I&#39;d like to add.. and I&#39;ll use my little raft theory again because it works for all situations: there&#39;s me and there&#39;s a mother with young kids and one seat on the only raft of the ship that&#39;s going down. Who&#39;s getting that seat? Of course, the mother is because she is seen as more valuable then I am. And I am likely to give it to her for the same reason.. So, I better be a damn good swimmer to haul ass back to shore.

[hochiminicooper]

Porn and Strip Clubs are targeted towards men because women would not engage in that kind of activity, are you telling me that even though no black person would go to a tanning booth (for obvious reasons), that advertisers sohuld target them as much as a white person, or else they are racist?

[coda]

Women wouldn&#39;t engage in watching naked men grinding their ass on a pole on stage?

[*Hippie*]

"are you telling me that even though no black person would go to a tanning booth (for obvious reasons), that advertisers sohuld target them as much as a white person, or else they are racist? "

That&#39;s ridiculous&#33; The darkness of one&#39;s skin is something that can not be changed.

A male is not "born" to go to strip clubs and view porn. That is socially influenced and ingrained in society over time. If it were more socially acceptable for women to partake is such activities they would to a greater extent. They already are more now at a greater rate everyday. But if you look back in history, porn and strip clubs grew at an amazing rate, mostly as a backlash to the feminist movement. Men tried to keep women in "their place" in other ways after they were accepted in the work force. North America is obssessed with sex and it takes away from time, energy and resources that could be spent in other, shall we say, less self-indulgent areas.

[coda]

yeah... I think there is just a general stigma of being a women either way. :( If they are overtly sexual and coerced into being sex objects then they are percieved as "whores." if they are the opposite, they are seen as prudish and frigid or man-haters. Not only in the sexual arena, but everywhere these false dualities persist. I was reading an article not too long ago that said that women teachers as well as men teachers fail to call on girl students in class even when they know the answers.

But, don&#39;t despair.. things are changing..albeit, at a very slow pace, but nobody can ignore women&#39;s contributions and their equal competence, anymore. The truth always wins out.

[jcbn]

I think one of the more apparent signs of gender oppression is the fact that housework, performed overwhelmingly by women, isn&#39;t compensated or even recognized. Neoclassical (bourgeois) economics completely ignores housework when it calculates the economic activity taking place in a country through its GDP.

The unpaid labor of women is KEY in reproducing the working class and sustaining the capitalist system.

Also, by identifying women with unpaid household work, the bosses rationalize their unequal pay scales for women and men in the formal monetary economy, further boosting their profits. They pay women less for the same work because it&#39;s "only temporary" or it&#39;s performed by a gender whose so-called "real work" is in the home.

[coda]

Indeed woman are stuck in thier historical chains.

Yes, I read something the other day to the effect of the work that a women does in her home, taking care of kids, etc. would gross 100k.

Luckily, we don&#39;t clean our houses anymore as if our whole identity and future was hinged upon it.

Technically, however, women are only getting paid less in the upper echelon of society.
At the lower scale, men and women are making equally low minimum wages.

[RedStarOverChina]

Just look at the statistics. Women still make much less overall. Especially in places such as universities. Female professor takes only something like 20% of the total number of professors---and those 20% receive the lowest paychecks.

[coda]

That&#39;s true, RSOC, the higher up the scale the the more the inequality of women&#39;s pay. But, still, that 20% is making twice as much or more than both men and women at the lower end of the pay scale-- and the inequality for them is by far much greater.

[encephalon]

Sexism is difficult to convince people of regarding its persistent exixtence beyond strictly political rights because it&#39;s cultural, and people have a problem thinking beyond their own cultural standards.

The comment about men naturally engaging in sexist behavior is a prime example of this. You&#39;re placing the blame on nature when in fact it&#39;s a learned behavior. Men aren&#39;t naturally inclined to view pornography any more than women. Men, in western culture, are by and large rewarded for such behavior; both in a social context and in the immediate personal sexual pleasure context.

I would disagree, however, concerning the fact that only women are objectified. All people are objectified, men and women alike. Men considered "ugly" according to social standards are alienated for the same reason women are. Different issues arise with the different gender roles, but the disease remains the same. We are all treated like commodities by one another.

I will grant that women, in particular, are objectified much more blatantly. And they are enslaved by bourgeoisie family roles. It should be noted, however, that man are as enslaved as well, pushed into the role they are supposed to play, and have particular issues concerning it as well. Even worse, men are supposed to not talk about it in western culture, further complicating the matter.

[encephalon]

Technically, however, women are only getting paid less in the upper echelon of society.
At the lower scale, men and women are making equally low minimum wages.

Actually, according to modern statistics, this is wrong. Even in the lower end pay-scale, women still make much less in comparison to men.

[praxis1966]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17 2005, 07:54 PM
Porn and Strip Clubs are targeted towards men because women would not engage in that kind of activity, are you telling me that even though no black person would go to a tanning booth (for obvious reasons), that advertisers sohuld target them as much as a white person, or else they are racist?

That&#39;s the most ridiculous thing I&#39;ve ever heard. I used to work at a night club (largest in the U&#036; in fact) and twice a week we had a "male dance review" (basically just a bunch of oiled-up &#39;roid-heads dancing around in banana hammocks). Women were all over it like stink on shit. Not that I&#39;m passing judgement one way or the other, I just wish I didn&#39;t get assigned duties bouncing in that room quite so often.


But if you look back in history, porn and strip clubs grew at an amazing rate, mostly as a backlash to the feminist movement. Men tried to keep women in "their place" in other ways after they were accepted in the work force.

Untrue. The real boom in the sex industry (i.e. print, video, peep/strip shows) occured pretty much simultaneously with the free speech movement, sexual revolution, and increased reproductive freedom of the mid-1960s and early 1970s. What I think you&#39;re reffering to is the so-called women&#39;s lib movement of the mid an late &#39;70s. Feminism as an ideology, however, dates back to the 1830s in the U&#036; and the 1790s in Europe. If it&#39;s really that critical I&#39;ll submit reading suggestions upon request.

In any event, I do agree with the general sentiment of this thread. My problem is that much of this is not unique to women. Every sub-section of American society gets paid much less than white males, which brings us full circle to class struggle. Outside of that, it&#39;s a matter of changing people&#39;s attitudes.

[coda]

Right on, about males being pushed into gender roles--that starts relatively young too.

yes, woman get paid less on the average for any given job, skilled or unskilled, excluding those millions of men and women getting paid The minimum wage. Minimum wage jobs don&#39;t distinguish between gender.

[viva le revolution]

The real reason for the existence of sexism in america or any other ciuntry for that matter is the fact that religion still continues to be a major influence on policies and attitudes of the administration and state.
Religion has no place in the state&#33;

[coda]

Right On, Viva&#33;&#33;&#33;&#33;

[RedStarOverChina]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18 2005, 09:01 AM
Sexism is difficult to convince people of regarding its persistent exixtence beyond strictly political rights because it&#39;s cultural, and people have a problem thinking beyond their own cultural standards.

The comment about men naturally engaging in sexist behavior is a prime example of this. You&#39;re placing the blame on nature when in fact it&#39;s a learned behavior. Men aren&#39;t naturally inclined to view pornography any more than women. Men, in western culture, are by and large rewarded for such behavior; both in a social context and in the immediate personal sexual pleasure context.

I would disagree, however, concerning the fact that only women are objectified. All people are objectified, men and women alike. Men considered "ugly" according to social standards are alienated for the same reason women are. Different issues arise with the different gender roles, but the disease remains the same. We are all treated like commodities by one another.

I will grant that women, in particular, are objectified much more blatantly. And they are enslaved by bourgeoisie family roles. It should be noted, however, that man are as enslaved as well, pushed into the role they are supposed to play, and have particular issues concerning it as well. Even worse, men are supposed to not talk about it in western culture, further complicating the matter.
An Medieval writer concluded that in their culture, the moral standard for man is completely opposite of that of women: whatever that&#39;s fashionable for men to do is immoral for women.

Things havent changed all that much.




That&#39;s true, RSOC, the higher up the scale the the more the inequality of women&#39;s pay. But, still, that 20% is making twice as much or more than both men and women at the lower end of the pay scale-- and the inequality for them is by far much greater.

of course, I do realize that. That was only meant to be used as an example. Women are at a disadvantage in most fields in our society which causes inequal distribution of wealth among the sexes, which I believe is the root of all discrimination.



Jusr yesterday, in Canada a female politician of the Conservative Party abandoned the Conservative Party and joined the Liberal Party---then the name-calling began. "attractive dipstick", "whore", all words of such kind were sprayed out of the mouths of the seemingly civilized conservatives. Their last bit of dignity were lost, along with Canada&#39;s frail claim of advocating gender equality.

[hochiminicooper]

Originally posted by *Hippie*@May 18 2005, 01:50 AM
"are you telling me that even though no black person would go to a tanning booth (for obvious reasons), that advertisers sohuld target them as much as a white person, or else they are racist? "

That&#39;s ridiculous&#33; The darkness of one&#39;s skin is something that can not be changed.

A male is not "born" to go to strip clubs and view porn. That is socially influenced and ingrained in society over time. If it were more socially acceptable for women to partake is such activities they would to a greater extent. They already are more now at a greater rate everyday. But if you look back in history, porn and strip clubs grew at an amazing rate, mostly as a backlash to the feminist movement. Men tried to keep women in "their place" in other ways after they were accepted in the work force. North America is obssessed with sex and it takes away from time, energy and resources that could be spent in other, shall we say, less self-indulgent areas.
But the business is going to target the likely customer so why would be sexist to target males who are the most likely to go to the clubs? I would say that we are a bit obsessed with sex, but I don&#39;t think porn and strip clubs are sexist because, first of all, its not men taking control of women, because lots of strippers get into stripping because they say it empowers them. People might be sexist, but discrimination against women has been going on for a long time and its slowly, slowly improving. Porn and strip blubs aren&#39;t sexist, people are sexist.

"The darkness of one&#39;s skin is something that can not be changed."
Its called Tanning :huh:

[The Apathetic Atheist]

Or you could pull an MJ.

[*Hippie*]

Any advertising directed at one specific gender is sexist. It just caters to the idea that there are differences between the sexes (besides what is between their legs) and enforces the same old gender roles we are trying to break down. If men and women are to be treated equally, all business (sex trade included) have to stop treating them as "different" and start looking at them as equals.

[viva le revolution]

Originally posted by *Hippie*@May 24 2005, 01:15 AM
Any advertising directed at one specific gender is sexist. It just caters to the idea that there are differences between the sexes (besides what is between their legs) and enforces the same old gender roles we are trying to break down. If men and women are to be treated equally, all business (sex trade included) have to stop treating them as "different" and start looking at them as equals.
Agreed&#33; However you wouldn&#39;t go on trying to sell tampons to men now would you.
There are a few products made for each gender specifically, but the rest should should target them both as equals.

[bolshevik butcher]

In britain, a woman doing the same job as a man on average only recieves 80% of his wage, that&#39;s ridiculous, sexism is still alive here anyaway.

[RedAnarchist]

The media in Britain is also very misogynistic as well. If you look at the adverts in one advert break, how many show a woman cooking, cleaning or half-naked? Too many. There are tabloids which show half-naked "page three" "girls", and on the next page rant about paedophiles. There are far too many television programmes which use naked/scantily-clad women as "decoration" or to attract male viewers.

This disgusting sexism isnt just limited to women, either. Men are also trated as sex objects by the media too, although far more subtly.
Men are portrayed in adverts as stupid/sex-obsessed/drunks etc.

This shows just how the decadence of capitalist society in the West is trying to keep hold of gender roles and stereotypes.

[bolshevik butcher]

Yeh. actually adverts are the worse for stereotyping, like esure for instance portrays woman as stupid. It&#39;s really sexist, the media in gneral does it, woman are often protrayed as only worvey of being house wives.

[*Hippie*]

In commercials, the man usually seems to be portrayed as inadequate at house chores. Beer commercials are the worst too. It always make men look like drunk losers who only care about drinking and ogling and objectifying women and watching football. It is sad. While women often seem to be portrayed as sexual objects. It is very sad for both genders.

[bolshevik butcher]

yeh that nuts advert is pretty instulting for men and woman.

[Parkbench]

Sexism in the US is far from gone. It&#39;s disgusting. You&#39;re right overall--most people in our walled communities think we&#39;ve &#39;solved the problem,&#39; just like racism. They enforce this false ideal by electing women leaders and being even sexist against themselves by making a huge ordeal of the fact that a woman is holding a high position rather than let it be as innocuous as a male position.

People today still put women on pedestals and are patronising. I hate the stereotype of the &#39;whiny girlfriend,&#39; the boyfriend rolling his eyes trying to satisfy the girl&#39;s unrealistic desires. The whole "that&#39;s the way women are" philosophy is just so full of holes and is still prevalent.

And still, men feel superiority over women in the most childish of ways that boggles the mind. I am in a (sort) of relationship right now that is completely mind-blowing for me. The level of honesty in our communication, the amount we know about each other...all the things the opposite sex doesn&#39;t talk about to you, we talk about it...and it&#39;s liberating. I was shocked at how much I didn&#39;t know, simply because all my life I was fenced off and effectively categorized.

It&#39;s really disgusting to me that women still have to deal with lower wages. It&#39;s the type of thing we look back on in history and wonder what the fuck happened, and we&#39;re still not changing it.

[bolshevik butcher]

Yeh, racism is also still a problem, jsut because sexism and racism are illegal a lot of people are nieve enough to think these problems have gone. In truth they have just become more hidden.