Petty-Bourgeois

[workersunity]

I have a petty-bougeois friend who is an anti-capitalist but not a socialist because he thinks that when the revolution comes the bourg, and petty bourg will be killed off, anybody have any quotes and articles from marx/engels stance on the petty-bourgeois, i alread know of it in the Communist manifesto, any analysis would be great

[redstar2000]

All of them? :o

:lol:

Seriously, the logic of Marxism suggests that the petty-bourgeoisie will be quite small by the time of a proletarian revolution...most people will be workers and only a very tiny number of people at the top will be bourgeois.

And in any event, the point is not to "kill" the bourgeoisie (or the petty-bourgeoisie), it is to deprive them of their wealth and privilege.

Something they likely regard as "a fate worse than death". :lol:

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Social Greenman]

Interesting considering that malls, Walmart, etc., has driven a lot of small, petite-bourgeoisie, businesses out of business because they cannot compete with the large corporations prices thereby forcing them to become proletariat. Many mom and pop's restaraunts have closed as well. Also interesting is that now workers have to compete with other workers globaly which has reduced wages in the U.S.

[OleMarxco]

The petite burgeouis will have a chanche to go to our side, of course, but they are not wholefully a part of the enemy...they're atleast trying to WORK for themselves! But if they're sharing the managerial traits...well, they'd be deprived of that wealth and privelegie too....and put in the same "class" as everyone else, whether or not they want it!

[Enragé]

after the revolution the bourgeoisie will be merely stripped of that what makes them the bourgeoisie.

Anyways, could someone give me an exact definition of "petty bourgeois"?

[Bolshevist]

Anyways, could someone give me an exact definition of "petty bourgeois"?

Petty-bourgeois

1) The class of small proprietors (for example owners of small stores), and general handicrafts people of various types.

This group has been disappearing since the industrial revolution, as large factories or retail outlets can produce commodities faster, better, and for a cheaper price than the small proprietor. While this class is most abundant in the least industrialized regions of the world, dwindling remnants remain in more industrialized areas.

These people are the foundation of the capitalist dream (aka "American dream"): to start a small buisness and expand it into an empire. Much of capitalist growth and development comes from these people, while at the same time capitalism stamps out these people more and more with bigger and better industries that no small proprieter can compete against. Thus for the past few decades in the U.S., petty-bourgeois are given an enourmous variety of incintives, tax breaks, grants, loans, and ways to escape unscathed from a failed buisness.

2) Also refers to the growing group of workers whose function is management of the bourgeois apparatus. These workers do not produce commodities, but instead manage the production, distribution, and/or exchange of commodities and/or services owned by their bourgeois employers.

While these workers are a part of the working class because they receive a wage and their livlihood is dependent on that wage, they are seperated from working class consciousness because they have day to day control, but not ownership, over the means of production, distribution, and exchange.

[workersunity]

I told him this, and he said that the socialist would kill everyone with money, hes a misguided person, very misguided

[Jaha]

a communist revolution could very well be so violent that the rich die en mass (sp?). but assuming that the revolters know why they are revolting, then in theory, the wealthy would be treated as equals.

communism is not a destructive idea. the goal is not to destroy that which is wrong with capitalism, but to create a society where there is no need for wealth.

equality is the only punishment the rich will recieve, assuming i have any say in the matter.

[workersunity]

Welp he still thinks that communists just want to kill everybody that is rich, which i keep telling him isnt true, he still cant back up his claim though. he should come on here and argue with us

[Black Dagger]

The basic counter-argument to that assertion is that killing the rich will not be necessary, unless said people are actively trying to defeat the revolution or are otherwise attacking the revolution or revolutionaries. In these cases, the violence directed towards them would be self-defence. Other than that, once they no longer control the means of production, they lose their wealth and they lose their power, they cease to be 'rich', so killing them is pointless. The only people who 'need' to be killed are those who oppose the revolution with violence or otherwise seek to undermine/destroy it.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by Lenin i [email protected] 17 2005, 06:29 PM

Anyways, could someone give me an exact definition of "petty bourgeois"?

Petty-bourgeois

1) The class of small proprietors (for example owners of small stores), and general handicrafts people of various types.

This group has been disappearing since the industrial revolution, as large factories or retail outlets can produce commodities faster, better, and for a cheaper price than the small proprietor. While this class is most abundant in the least industrialized regions of the world, dwindling remnants remain in more industrialized areas.

These people are the foundation of the capitalist dream (aka "American dream"): to start a small buisness and expand it into an empire. Much of capitalist growth and development comes from these people, while at the same time capitalism stamps out these people more and more with bigger and better industries that no small proprieter can compete against. Thus for the past few decades in the U.S., petty-bourgeois are given an enourmous variety of incintives, tax breaks, grants, loans, and ways to escape unscathed from a failed buisness.

2) Also refers to the growing group of workers whose function is management of the bourgeois apparatus. These workers do not produce commodities, but instead manage the production, distribution, and/or exchange of commodities and/or services owned by their bourgeois employers.

While these workers are a part of the working class because they receive a wage and their livlihood is dependent on that wage, they are seperated from working class consciousness because they have day to day control, but not ownership, over the means of production, distribution, and exchange.
thnx

[workersunity]

thanks black dagger thats the best counter argument, I was saying that see communists know how communism will go, and hes like oh they are biased, i then cited the Communist Manifesto, and he kept saying that its truth that they will kill all rich people, and he failed to give ONE source or anything, he says he knows the truth, lack of logic if ya ask me