Plan Colombia Dead!

[colombiano]

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is Wonderful news for my country and my people!!!!
SOURCE (http://news.independent.co.uk/world/americas/story.jsp?story=638590)

[Jersey Devil]

Kerry was going to use possible cuts for Plan Colombia to pressure the Colombians to account for the abuse of trade unionists. I think that would have been a more proper action, nevertheless, it was a huge waste of taxpayer dollars which didn't make much sense anyway since all it did was raise the price of cocaine by creating lower supply.

This also seems strange since not to long ago Rice pledged ongoing aid to Plan Colombia. I also can not seem to find this story on some other publications.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4492173.stm

Thursday, 28 April, 2005

Rice pledges ongoing Colombia aid

US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has told Colombia that Washington will go on supporting its fight against drug traffickers and left-wing insurgency.

Ms Rice praised the Colombian authorities for winning back large areas of land from left-wing rebels.

The BBC's correspondent in Bogota says Colombian President Alvaro Uribe is the most loyal US ally in South America.

With the help of $600m of US military assistance Mr Uribe has extradited many drug traffickers to the US.

[bed_of_nails]

I dont like cocaine, so I am unsure about this.

[bed_of_nails]

Analysing this again I have come to my conclusion:

You cannot be a left-winger and support cocaine.

Cocaine harms mostly lower-class families, and is horrific and devastating upon people and their families.

Anyone who supports the continuation of this drug is no comrade of mine.

[Guest1]

Yes, capitalism does horrific things to people.

The drug, however, is just a drug.

Don't preach.

[RedStarOverChina]

I think I have to agree with bed of nails. Drugs are literally the "opium of the people".

Im less objectionable towards marijuana but others I'm rather strongly against.

[Guest1]

Then you're nothing but a hypocrite.

You can't be "against" specific drugs anymore than you can be "against" specific mineral formations.

There is nothing "wrong" or "right" about them. They simply are. Under this society, gold and diamond mines are the nexus of plenty of slave labour and shitty work conditions. Wars are fought over them. Does that mean we should be against gold and diamond? No. It means we should be against the gangs that control them, and the society that spills blood for them.

In the same way, we should condemn the society that uses certain drugs as chemical warfare, and the society that by denying safe conditions and drug education, sends people to addiction, disease and overdose.

As materialists, we need to disconnect emotion from rational thought. The only rational way to deal with drugs is education on how to use them safely, and controlled, localized/recreationalized production under a socialist society. If a group of people want to make drugs on their spare time, distribute them for free, and use them safely in a controlled environment, it's not our issue, so long as appropriate precautions are taken and others are not harmed.

I can never understand how communists can suspend reason so blatantly when it comes to drugs.

[synthesis]

Yes, capitalism does horrific things to people.

The drug, however, is just a drug.

Don't preach.


You can't be "against" specific drugs


I can never understand how communists can suspend reason so blatantly when it comes to drugs.

You are completely ignoring the material reality of the coke-running industry. A staggering percent of the money earned by the coke coming into the U.S. goes into the pockets of reactionary paramilitaries in Nicaragua and Colombia working to suppress labor unions and eradicate leftist militant movements.

The entire Southern California crack industry started when a half-illiterate high school dropout taking a chemistry course at PCC happened to meet an exile from the Somoza regime in Nicaragua who wanted to kill two birds with one stone. Five years later, that dropout was making $3 million a year.

You can't pretend coke and heroin aren't in a different ballpark, politically, from weed and mushrooms. In addition to the vastly unbalanced power structure between dealer and user, coke and heroin are largely in the pockets of despotic reactionaries.

[RedStarOverChina]

First of all, I have NO emotional feelings towards the issue of drugs. I have seen people who use drugs that are perfectly normal AND those who aren't.


You can't be "against" specific drugs anymore than you can be "against" specific mineral formations.

There is nothing "wrong" or "right" about them. They simply are.

Its not like I blame the drugs. I blame the use of drugs.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but according to ur philosophy, we should be able to set fire on ourselves because fire "simply is".


Under this society, gold and diamond mines are the nexus of plenty of slave labour and shitty work conditions. Wars are fought over them. Does that mean we should be against gold and diamond? No. It means we should be against the gangs that control them, and the society that spills blood for them.

So I should assume that u want SOME control over the use of drugs? If they "simply are", then why not simply let them be?



I can never understand how communists can suspend reason so blatantly when it comes to drugs.

I happened to have kept my mouth shut in the past because I admit I didnt know anything about it. Now, after careful consideration, I have chosen my own position.


One last thing. Educate me on how should use drugs safely. I mean it. I wanna know.

[Guest1]

Much of the weed industry is owned by those same gangsters. Much of the gold and diamond industry is used to fund right-wing paramilitaries in Africa. Much of the chocolate and coffee industry is used to fund the same reactionaries, and involved in plenty of bloodshed.

My point is this is Capitalism, not the drugs, or the chocolate, or the coffee, or the gold, or the diamonds, or the cotton, or the oil, or any particular substance.

Furthermore, plan colombia directly attacked the lower-class farmers, not the drug lords, leaving them with health problems and depriving them of their income.

These people are supporting that reactionary plan, and moralisticly attacking the drug, not going after the conditions under which the drug develops in Capitalist society.

Edit: as for safe drug use redstaroverchina, that's a different thread which depends what drug you're using.

[RedStarOverChina]

Obviously I'm against plan colombia but I consider the use of drugs a different issue.


My point is this is Capitalism, not the drugs, or the chocolate, or the coffee, or the gold, or the diamonds, or the cotton, or the oil, or any particular substance.

I thought the central theme to the issue of drugs is addiction. People will be addicted to it despite what political system we have. Do u believe that we can enjoy the effect of drugs and not get addicted to it? If so, how? If not, how would u describe the effect on a person?

[Guest1]

It depends on the drug.

But yes, it is possible to enjoy drugs without getting addicted to them, even addictive drugs.

If someone wants to enjoy drugs responsibly, they can. My way of doing that is a system, with a calendar for when I've last used the drug, etc... Speaking of which, it's the 15th today, I can have another hit of oxy this week.

[Anarchist Freedom]

Drugs are an item that is all we cannot place blame on an item it cant choose its fate or how people act. Hating a drug yet accepting another is riduclous it has been show TIME AND TIME AGAIN! That just saying no to this drug but yes to others does not work. If you really want to help the working class with drug problems teach intelligent drug use and harm reductionism is like me.


Edit: CyM feeling that nod?

[Andy Bowden]

"Not all drugs are good. Some are great"

:lol: