Communist Freedom Fighter

[13Commnists]

At this Forum (http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php#1) sometimes they talk about Communist freedom fighters. This is the discussion itself link (http://uselectionatlas.org/FORUM/index.php?topic=21933.0). These people are mainstream and quite confused about Communism. But what are your views on the term Communist freedom fighter or some term like that?

[ColinH]

I suppose the term "freedom fighters" could be taken a number of ways, but it's mostly for show. However, you could say that the Communists are fighting for freedom from a old capitalist regime. Communist rebels have succeeded in overthrowing their old rulers, but have never established a socialist (and especially not a communist) nation. They usually end up installing a leftist (still capitalist) regime that sits dead in the water, unable to actually become socialist or communist because it would be vulnerable to capitalism, which is notoriously aggressive, while communism is passive. Then there's the matter of corruption. All of that power cannot be placed in the hands of a single party, because many would be tempted to abuse it, as you can plainly see throughout history.

A perfect storm of Communist rebellion would be a massive revolution. You can call yourself a "freedom fighter," but if the majority of the people don't support you, what's the point? You'll only end up installing some authoritarian regime to establish control, and there's never been any problems with that, right? Right???

[Commie Rat]

freedom fighters as a term can be used in anyways depending on point of view
if commie's ran the show then a capitalist could call himself a freedom fighter

[RedCeltic]

An idividual or group are "Freedom Fighters" or "Terrorists" depending on which side of the dispute you are on...

"The Real IRA" is listed as a dangerous terrorist group by the FBI and MI5. However to the "Real IRA" and their supporters, they are freedom fighters who hold true to the real principles of Irish Republicanism and James Connolly's goals.

Ronald Reagan labled terrorist groups the US supported as "freedom fighters." Thus, groups that terrorized the local populace such as the Contras who were precieved as terrorist thugs down there, were "Freedom Fighters" in Washington DC.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

I got a question?

Can a group of people who are quite adept at shooting, hanging, beating, and kicking another human; are they your best choice to form a system of compasion and justice?

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 07:45 AM
"The Real IRA" is listed as a dangerous terrorist group by the FBI and MI5. However to the "Real IRA" and their supporters, they are freedom fighters who hold true to the real principles of Irish Republicanism and James Connolly's goals.
They're neo-nazis. They're not interested in anyone's freedom.

[OleMarxco]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 08:18 AM
I got a question?

Can a group of people who are quite adept at shooting, hanging, beating, and kicking another human; Are they your best choice to form a system of compasion and justice?
Perhaps not.

But then they won't be the ones ruling - The ones making the "system of compassion and justice", would be others, the masses - Workers - They will just be the ones protect that system, MAYBE - if the Workers want to let us - And if you speak about us, no we aren't but we could take that role for a while :lol:

[Redmau5]

Originally posted by Professor [email protected] 14 2005, 11:37 AM
They're neo-nazis. They're not interested in anyone's freedom.
LMAO. Are you for real ? Im no fan of the RIRA but calling them neo-nazis is fucking ridiculous.

[Anti-establishment]

The scary part was that he meant it, he was for real lol. I'm used to seeing RIRA wrote on a wall with paint, but the swastika is missing, stupid neo-nazis forgettin their own symbol. :lol:

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by OleMarxco+May 14 2005, 03:32 PM--> (OleMarxco @ May 14 2005, 03:32 PM)
[email protected] 14 2005, 08:18 AM
I got a question?

Can a group of people who are quite adept at shooting, hanging, beating, and kicking another human; Are they your best choice to form a system of compasion and justice?
Perhaps not.

But then they won't be the ones ruling - The ones making the "system of compassion and justice", would be others, the masses - Workers - They will just be the ones protect that system, MAYBE - if the Workers want to let us - And if you speak about us, no we aren't but we could take that role for a while :lol: [/b]
Why should groups of people empowered with violent means listen to the workers? Don't forget that these people are quite adept at killing.

[Professor Moneybags]

Originally posted by Makaveli_05+May 14 2005, 03:37 PM--> (Makaveli_05 @ May 14 2005, 03:37 PM)
Professor [email protected] 14 2005, 11:37 AM
They're neo-nazis. They're not interested in anyone's freedom.
LMAO. Are you for real ? Im no fan of the RIRA but calling them neo-nazis is fucking ridiculous. [/b]
Then why have they erected a statue of a Hitler sympathizer (http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml;sessionid=JM2P5EGRNRHWBQFIQMFCM5WAVCBQY JVC?xml=/opinion/2005/01/16/do1606.xml&sSheet=/opinion/2005/) in Dublin.

[ColinH]

Originally posted by ahhh_money_is_comfort+May 14 2005, 04:21 PM--> (ahhh_money_is_comfort @ May 14 2005, 04:21 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 03:32 PM

[email protected] 14 2005, 08:18 AM
I got a question?

Can a group of people who are quite adept at shooting, hanging, beating, and kicking another human; Are they your best choice to form a system of compasion and justice?
Perhaps not.

But then they won't be the ones ruling - The ones making the "system of compassion and justice", would be others, the masses - Workers - They will just be the ones protect that system, MAYBE - if the Workers want to let us - And if you speak about us, no we aren't but we could take that role for a while :lol:
Why should groups of people empowered with violent means listen to the workers? Don't forget that these people are quite adept at killing. [/b]
What if the people empowered with violent means happen to be the workers?

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by Professor Moneybags
Then why have they erected a statue of a Hitler sympathizer in Dublin.

Evidently, Sean Russell was an IRA big-shot who went to Berlin to seek arms for use in the invasion and liberation of Northern Ireland...there does not seem to be any evidence of Russell or IRA sympathy with Nazi ideology.

http://www.breakingnews.ie/2005/01/13/story184570.html

There were others in that period who sought Nazi assistance in fighting England...nationalists in Iraq, Egypt, and India all tried to secure Nazi help in throwing the English bastards out of their various countries.

That was foolish...but not criminal.

Nationalists are rarely very perceptive about the sources from which they seek help...they just want the help.

Remember Churchill's famous speech before the House of Commons...about being willing to enter into an alliance with His Satanic Majesty against the Third Reich.

Not to mention some American right-wing nitwits...who maintained that America was on the wrong side in Europe. (!)

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by ColinH+May 15 2005, 06:27 AM--> (ColinH @ May 15 2005, 06:27 AM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 03:32 PM

[email protected] 14 2005, 08:18 AM
I got a question?

Can a group of people who are quite adept at shooting, hanging, beating, and kicking another human; Are they your best choice to form a system of compasion and justice?
Perhaps not.

But then they won't be the ones ruling - The ones making the "system of compassion and justice", would be others, the masses - Workers - They will just be the ones protect that system, MAYBE - if the Workers want to let us - And if you speak about us, no we aren't but we could take that role for a while :lol:
Why should groups of people empowered with violent means listen to the workers? Don't forget that these people are quite adept at killing.
What if the people empowered with violent means happen to be the workers? [/b]
Then the workers are the ones who are violent and full of bad karma. Again you have the problem of people with bad karma trying to build a system of justice and compassion.

[bed_of_nails]

Originally posted by ahhh_money_is_comfort+May 15 2005, 04:09 PM--> (ahhh_money_is_comfort @ May 15 2005, 04:09 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 03:32 PM

[email protected] 14 2005, 08:18 AM
I got a question?

Can a group of people who are quite adept at shooting, hanging, beating, and kicking another human; Are they your best choice to form a system of compasion and justice?
Perhaps not.

But then they won't be the ones ruling - The ones making the "system of compassion and justice", would be others, the masses - Workers - They will just be the ones protect that system, MAYBE - if the Workers want to let us - And if you speak about us, no we aren't but we could take that role for a while :lol:
Why should groups of people empowered with violent means listen to the workers? Don't forget that these people are quite adept at killing.
What if the people empowered with violent means happen to be the workers?
Then the workers are the ones who are violent and full of bad karma. Again you have the problem of people with bad karma trying to build a system of justice and compassion. [/b]
Like how America was founded by crazy Englishmen with ADD/ADHD who ended up resorting to terrorism and guerilla warfare to win "freedom"?

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by bed_of_nails+May 15 2005, 06:28 PM--> (bed_of_nails @ May 15 2005, 06:28 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 03:32 PM

[email protected] 14 2005, 08:18 AM
I got a question?

Can a group of people who are quite adept at shooting, hanging, beating, and kicking another human; Are they your best choice to form a system of compasion and justice?
Perhaps not.

But then they won't be the ones ruling - The ones making the "system of compassion and justice", would be others, the masses - Workers - They will just be the ones protect that system, MAYBE - if the Workers want to let us - And if you speak about us, no we aren't but we could take that role for a while :lol:
Why should groups of people empowered with violent means listen to the workers? Don't forget that these people are quite adept at killing.
What if the people empowered with violent means happen to be the workers?
Then the workers are the ones who are violent and full of bad karma. Again you have the problem of people with bad karma trying to build a system of justice and compassion.
Like how America was founded by crazy Englishmen with ADD/ADHD who ended up resorting to terrorism and guerilla warfare to win "freedom"? [/b]
Again, what ever USA has done, does not prove communist to be right or just. Communism must prove itself with it's own merits.

So no matter how screwed up you think plan A is, it does not prove plan B to be right.

[ColinH]

Originally posted by ahhh_money_is_comfort+May 15 2005, 03:08 PM--> (ahhh_money_is_comfort @ May 15 2005, 03:08 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 03:32 PM

[email protected] 14 2005, 08:18 AM
I got a question?

Can a group of people who are quite adept at shooting, hanging, beating, and kicking another human; Are they your best choice to form a system of compasion and justice?
Perhaps not.

But then they won't be the ones ruling - The ones making the "system of compassion and justice", would be others, the masses - Workers - They will just be the ones protect that system, MAYBE - if the Workers want to let us - And if you speak about us, no we aren't but we could take that role for a while :lol:
Why should groups of people empowered with violent means listen to the workers? Don't forget that these people are quite adept at killing.
What if the people empowered with violent means happen to be the workers?
Then the workers are the ones who are violent and full of bad karma. Again you have the problem of people with bad karma trying to build a system of justice and compassion.
Like how America was founded by crazy Englishmen with ADD/ADHD who ended up resorting to terrorism and guerilla warfare to win "freedom"?
Again, what ever USA has done, does not prove communist to be right or just. Communism must prove itself with it's own merits.

So no matter how screwed up you think plan A is, it does not prove plan B to be right. [/b]
You seem to be against a revolution in general, which would probably end up becoming violent as those who control things now would not likely just roll over and give up their vast wealth and power. An evolution towards socialism would be desirable, but that's not something that could occur within the system.

What if it wasn't exactly a "communist revolution," but simply a removal of a government that the masses deemed to be corrupt?

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by ColinH+May 15 2005, 07:50 PM--> (ColinH @ May 15 2005, 07:50 PM)
Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 06:27 AM

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by [email protected] 14 2005, 03:32 PM

[email protected] 14 2005, 08:18 AM
I got a question?

Can a group of people who are quite adept at shooting, hanging, beating, and kicking another human; Are they your best choice to form a system of compasion and justice?
Perhaps not.

But then they won't be the ones ruling - The ones making the "system of compassion and justice", would be others, the masses - Workers - They will just be the ones protect that system, MAYBE - if the Workers want to let us - And if you speak about us, no we aren't but we could take that role for a while :lol:
Why should groups of people empowered with violent means listen to the workers? Don't forget that these people are quite adept at killing.
What if the people empowered with violent means happen to be the workers?
Then the workers are the ones who are violent and full of bad karma. Again you have the problem of people with bad karma trying to build a system of justice and compassion.
Like how America was founded by crazy Englishmen with ADD/ADHD who ended up resorting to terrorism and guerilla warfare to win "freedom"?
Again, what ever USA has done, does not prove communist to be right or just. Communism must prove itself with it's own merits.

So no matter how screwed up you think plan A is, it does not prove plan B to be right.
You seem to be against a revolution in general, which would probably end up becoming violent as those who control things now would not likely just roll over and give up their vast wealth and power. An evolution towards socialism would be desirable, but that's not something that could occur within the system.

What if it wasn't exactly a "communist revolution," but simply a removal of a government that the masses deemed to be corrupt? [/b]
Okay? I'm listening? But want my $.02?

People founding a system of based on justice and compassion should do so by "leading by example". They live by example.

People who lived by killing and violence is setting the example, they example they are setting is compassion and justice is not the way.

You can not get good karma from bad.

[RedStarOverChina]

We are living the example of Capitalism....the legacy of Capitalism's brutal suppression and inhumane exploitation gives people the rage to stand up against oppression.

So the brutality of capitalism is permitted, while any attempt of resistance is evil? That is a bandit's mindset.

"Where there is oppression, there is resistance."

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16 2005, 07:04 AM
We are living the example of Capitalism....the legacy of Capitalism's brutal suppression and inhumane exploitation gives people the rage to stand up against oppression.

So the brutality of capitalism is permitted, while any attempt of resistance is evil? That is a bandit's mindset.

"Where there is oppression, there is resistance."
Again I would like to repeat:

What ever capitalism has done for failed to do, it is not a proof that communism is right. Communism must prove itself by it's own merits.