Maaja
11th September 2002, 05:39
In a rare interview, the South African demands that
George W. Bush win United Nations support before
attacking Iraq
September 10, 2002
NEWSWEEK WEB EXCLUSIVE
http://www.msnbc.com/news/806174.asp
Sept. 10 — Nelson Mandela, 84, may be the
world’s most respected statesman. Sentenced to life in
prison on desolate Robben Island in 1964 for
advocating armed resistance to apartheid in South
Africa, the African National Congress leader emerged
in 1990 to lead his country in a transition to
non-racial elections. As president, his priority was
racial reconciliation; today South Africans of all
races refer to him by his Xhosa clan honorific,
Madiba. Mandela stepped down in 1999 after a single
five-year term. He now heads two foundations focused
on children. He met with NEWSWEEK’S Tom Masland early
Monday morning in his office in Houghton, a
Johannesburg suburb, before flying to Limpopo Province
to address traditional leaders on the country’s AIDS
crisis. Excerpts:
NEWSWEEK: Why are you speaking out on Iraq? Do you
want to mediate, as you tried to on the Mideast a
couple of years ago? It seems you are reentering the
fray now.
Nelson Mandela: If I am asked, by credible
organizations, to mediate, I will consider that very
seriously. But a situation of this nature does not
need an individual, it needs an organization like the
United Nations to mediate. We must understand the
seriousness of this situation. The United States has
made serious mistakes in the conduct of its foreign
affairs, which have had unfortunate repercussions long
after the decisions were taken. Unqualified support of
the Shah of Iran led directly to the Islamic
revolution of 1979. Then the United States chose to
arm and finance the [Islamic] mujahedin in Afghanistan
instead of supporting and encouraging the moderate
wing of the government of Afghanistan. That is what
led to the Taliban in Afghanistan. But the most
catastrophic action of the United States was to
sabotage the decision that was painstakingly stitched
together by the United Nations regarding the
withdrawal of the Soviet Union from Afghanistan. If
you look at those matters, you will come to the
conclusion that the attitude of the United States of
America is a threat to world peace. Because what
[America] is saying is that if you are afraid of a
veto in the Security Council, you can go outside and
take action and violate the sovereignty of other
countries. That is the message they are sending to the
world. That must be condemned in the strongest terms.
And you will notice that France, Germany Russia, China
are against this decision. It is clearly a decision
that is motivated by George W. Bush’s desire to please
the arms and oil industries in the United States of
America. If you look at those factors, you’ll see that
an individual like myself, a man who has lost power
and influence, can never be a suitable mediator.
[NEWSWEEK]: What about the argument that’s being
made about the threat of Iraq’s weapons of mass
destruction and Saddam’s efforts to build a nuclear
weapons. After all, he has invaded other countries, he
has fired missiles at Israel. On Thursday, President
Bush is going to stand up in front of the United
Nations and point to what he says is evidence of...
[Nelson Mandela]: …Scott Ritter, a former United
Nations arms inspector who is in Baghdad, has said
that there is no evidence whatsoever of [development
of weapons of] mass destruction. Neither Bush nor
[British Prime Minister] Tony Blair has provided any
evidence that such weapons exist. But what we know is
that Israel has weapons of mass destruction. Nobody
talks about that. Why should there be one standard for
one country, especially because it is black, and
another one for another country, Israel, that is
white.
[NEWSWEEK]: So you see this as a racial
question?
[Nelson Mandela]: Well, that element is there.
In fact, many people say quietly, but they don’t have
the courage to stand up and say publicly, that when
there were white secretary generals you didn’t find
this question of the United States and Britain going
out of the United Nations. But now that you’ve had
black secretary generals like Boutros Boutros Ghali,
like Kofi Annan, they do not respect the United
Nations. They have contempt for it. This is not my
view, but that is what is being said by many people.
[NEWSWEEK]: What kind of compromise can you see
that might avoid the coming confrontation?
[Nelson Mandela]: There is one compromise and
one only, and that is the United Nations. If the
United States and Britain go to the United Nations and
the United Nations says we have concrete evidence of
the existence of these weapons of mass destruction in
Iraq and we feel that we must do something about it,
we would all support it.
[NEWSWEEK]: Do you think that the Bush
administration’s U.N. diplomatic effort now is
genuine, or is the President just looking for
political cover by speaking to the U.N. even as he
remains intent on forging ahead unilaterally?
[Nelson Mandela]: Well, there is no doubt that
the United States now feels that they are the only
superpower in the world and they can do what they
like. And of course we must consider the men and the
women around the president. Gen. Colin Powell
commanded the United States army in peacetime and in
wartime during the Gulf war. He knows the disastrous
effect of international tension and war, when innocent
people are going to die, young men are going to die.
He knows and he showed this after September 11 last
year. He went around briefing the allies of the United
States of America and asking for their support for the
war in Afghanistan. But people like Dick Cheney… I see
yesterday there was an article that said he is the
real president of the United States of America, I
don’t know how true that is. Dick Cheney, [Defense
secretary Donald] Rumsfeld, they are people who are
unfortunately misleading the president. Because my
impression of the president is that this is a man with
whom you can do business. But it is the men who around
him who are dinosaurs, who do not want him to belong
to the modern age. The only man, the only person who
wants to help Bush move to the modern era is Gen.
Colin Powell, the secretary of State.
[NEWSWEEK]: I gather you are particularly
concerned about Vice President Cheney?
[Nelson Mandela]: Well, there is no doubt. He
opposed the decision to release me from prison
(laughs). The majority of the U.S. Congress was in
favor of my release, and he opposed it. But it’s not
because of that. Quite clearly we are dealing with an
arch-conservative in Dick Cheney.
[NEWSWEEK]: I’m interested in your decision to
speak out now about Iraq. When you left office, you
said, “I’m going to go down to Transkei, and have a
rest.” Now maybe that was a joke at the time. But
you’ve been very active.
[Nelson Mandela]: I really wanted to retire and
rest and spend more time with my children, my
grandchildren and of course with my wife. But the
problems are such that for anybody with a conscience
who can use whatever influence he may have to try to
bring about peace, it’s difficult to say no.
George W. Bush win United Nations support before
attacking Iraq
September 10, 2002
NEWSWEEK WEB EXCLUSIVE
http://www.msnbc.com/news/806174.asp
Sept. 10 — Nelson Mandela, 84, may be the
world’s most respected statesman. Sentenced to life in
prison on desolate Robben Island in 1964 for
advocating armed resistance to apartheid in South
Africa, the African National Congress leader emerged
in 1990 to lead his country in a transition to
non-racial elections. As president, his priority was
racial reconciliation; today South Africans of all
races refer to him by his Xhosa clan honorific,
Madiba. Mandela stepped down in 1999 after a single
five-year term. He now heads two foundations focused
on children. He met with NEWSWEEK’S Tom Masland early
Monday morning in his office in Houghton, a
Johannesburg suburb, before flying to Limpopo Province
to address traditional leaders on the country’s AIDS
crisis. Excerpts:
NEWSWEEK: Why are you speaking out on Iraq? Do you
want to mediate, as you tried to on the Mideast a
couple of years ago? It seems you are reentering the
fray now.
Nelson Mandela: If I am asked, by credible
organizations, to mediate, I will consider that very
seriously. But a situation of this nature does not
need an individual, it needs an organization like the
United Nations to mediate. We must understand the
seriousness of this situation. The United States has
made serious mistakes in the conduct of its foreign
affairs, which have had unfortunate repercussions long
after the decisions were taken. Unqualified support of
the Shah of Iran led directly to the Islamic
revolution of 1979. Then the United States chose to
arm and finance the [Islamic] mujahedin in Afghanistan
instead of supporting and encouraging the moderate
wing of the government of Afghanistan. That is what
led to the Taliban in Afghanistan. But the most
catastrophic action of the United States was to
sabotage the decision that was painstakingly stitched
together by the United Nations regarding the
withdrawal of the Soviet Union from Afghanistan. If
you look at those matters, you will come to the
conclusion that the attitude of the United States of
America is a threat to world peace. Because what
[America] is saying is that if you are afraid of a
veto in the Security Council, you can go outside and
take action and violate the sovereignty of other
countries. That is the message they are sending to the
world. That must be condemned in the strongest terms.
And you will notice that France, Germany Russia, China
are against this decision. It is clearly a decision
that is motivated by George W. Bush’s desire to please
the arms and oil industries in the United States of
America. If you look at those factors, you’ll see that
an individual like myself, a man who has lost power
and influence, can never be a suitable mediator.
[NEWSWEEK]: What about the argument that’s being
made about the threat of Iraq’s weapons of mass
destruction and Saddam’s efforts to build a nuclear
weapons. After all, he has invaded other countries, he
has fired missiles at Israel. On Thursday, President
Bush is going to stand up in front of the United
Nations and point to what he says is evidence of...
[Nelson Mandela]: …Scott Ritter, a former United
Nations arms inspector who is in Baghdad, has said
that there is no evidence whatsoever of [development
of weapons of] mass destruction. Neither Bush nor
[British Prime Minister] Tony Blair has provided any
evidence that such weapons exist. But what we know is
that Israel has weapons of mass destruction. Nobody
talks about that. Why should there be one standard for
one country, especially because it is black, and
another one for another country, Israel, that is
white.
[NEWSWEEK]: So you see this as a racial
question?
[Nelson Mandela]: Well, that element is there.
In fact, many people say quietly, but they don’t have
the courage to stand up and say publicly, that when
there were white secretary generals you didn’t find
this question of the United States and Britain going
out of the United Nations. But now that you’ve had
black secretary generals like Boutros Boutros Ghali,
like Kofi Annan, they do not respect the United
Nations. They have contempt for it. This is not my
view, but that is what is being said by many people.
[NEWSWEEK]: What kind of compromise can you see
that might avoid the coming confrontation?
[Nelson Mandela]: There is one compromise and
one only, and that is the United Nations. If the
United States and Britain go to the United Nations and
the United Nations says we have concrete evidence of
the existence of these weapons of mass destruction in
Iraq and we feel that we must do something about it,
we would all support it.
[NEWSWEEK]: Do you think that the Bush
administration’s U.N. diplomatic effort now is
genuine, or is the President just looking for
political cover by speaking to the U.N. even as he
remains intent on forging ahead unilaterally?
[Nelson Mandela]: Well, there is no doubt that
the United States now feels that they are the only
superpower in the world and they can do what they
like. And of course we must consider the men and the
women around the president. Gen. Colin Powell
commanded the United States army in peacetime and in
wartime during the Gulf war. He knows the disastrous
effect of international tension and war, when innocent
people are going to die, young men are going to die.
He knows and he showed this after September 11 last
year. He went around briefing the allies of the United
States of America and asking for their support for the
war in Afghanistan. But people like Dick Cheney… I see
yesterday there was an article that said he is the
real president of the United States of America, I
don’t know how true that is. Dick Cheney, [Defense
secretary Donald] Rumsfeld, they are people who are
unfortunately misleading the president. Because my
impression of the president is that this is a man with
whom you can do business. But it is the men who around
him who are dinosaurs, who do not want him to belong
to the modern age. The only man, the only person who
wants to help Bush move to the modern era is Gen.
Colin Powell, the secretary of State.
[NEWSWEEK]: I gather you are particularly
concerned about Vice President Cheney?
[Nelson Mandela]: Well, there is no doubt. He
opposed the decision to release me from prison
(laughs). The majority of the U.S. Congress was in
favor of my release, and he opposed it. But it’s not
because of that. Quite clearly we are dealing with an
arch-conservative in Dick Cheney.
[NEWSWEEK]: I’m interested in your decision to
speak out now about Iraq. When you left office, you
said, “I’m going to go down to Transkei, and have a
rest.” Now maybe that was a joke at the time. But
you’ve been very active.
[Nelson Mandela]: I really wanted to retire and
rest and spend more time with my children, my
grandchildren and of course with my wife. But the
problems are such that for anybody with a conscience
who can use whatever influence he may have to try to
bring about peace, it’s difficult to say no.