Retirement

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

My retirement is going to be a combo of my personal saving and investment, plus government assistance, plus corporate benefits. At some point in time I decide for myself if I have the sufficient funds to end my career and retire. That is my plan, that is a pretty simplified typical US plan.

How do I retire under a communist system?

[redstar2000]

Interesting question.

Under capitalism, you do indeed have to plan and plan very carefully for your retirement.

And even the best planning may be unsuccessful; Enron employees who held Enron stock in their retirement plans ended up with nothing.

United Airlines just got a federal bankruptcy judge to approve a total default on its pension plan -- a federal agency that insures pension plans will pick up about 2/3rds of the benefits due...but the rest of the money those employees were counting on is down the toilet.

In a communist society, this might not ever be a problem...and not just because people would get what they needed regardless of their ability to do productive work. People might not even want to retire "completely".

Since people will be working at what they enjoy doing, they may simply reduce their working hours as they get older and less physically energetic...but never completely stop working altogether until shortly before they die.

In a way, total retirement isn't really such a great idea; I think there've been studies done that suggest that total cessation of purposeful activity accelerates aging and mental deterioration.

The reason retirement looms so large to us now is that it means escape from wage-slavery...from boring drudgery that serves only to make some rich assholes even richer.

I've been retired for some time now...and believe me, I'd beg on the streets before I'd go back to working again for some arrogant shit-brain boss.

Yet, I actually spend more hours on the internet than I spent working when I had a full time job...it keeps the brain ticking.

Of course, I'm not producing anything (except talk) and I'm not making any money from it (I have enough to get by)...but, at least in principle, I could do "productive labor" on my home pc.

Before there were pensions, social security, etc., "retirement" was involuntary unemployment...older workers were routinely thrown out on the streets and replaced by younger and (presumably) more productive workers. Even today, capitalists vigorously discriminate against older job applicants...and get away with it!

The consequence is that many older workers find themselves forced to take minimum-wage jobs...that are really too physically demanding and thus harmful to their health -- in the hopes that they will make it to 65 and can finally start drawing on social security.

Sometimes they make it; sometimes they don't. A few years ago, I had an elderly neighbor who was working 48 hours/week at a minimum wage job. One day, after finishing his shift, he climbed the three flights of stairs to his 3rd floor apartment...and suffered a massive heart attack.

He was 63.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[inquisitive_socialist]

like redstar said, ideally there would be no need for retirement. The concept of retirement would simply change to just not working, the benefits recieved would ideally never change.

[JazzRemington]

I don't really consider retirement an escape from anything, really. When people retire, they often are too old and feeble and sick to do anything but sit and watch TV and take their medicine. My grandpa, for instance, worked at Amoco oil refinery for many years, retired, and spent the last of his days sitting in his living room watching TV, barely able to hear and talk.

[inquisitive_socialist]

remington hits on the problem that capitalism creates. if you can't take a break from your job and retire to a life of relative ease, its not because retirement sucks, its because under the capitalistic sysyem in america you can't retire until your old and feeble. im sure also that your grandafather would have enjoyed retirement more had it come as a paid vacation, not an enforced lack of income.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

I kind of like the concept. I'm going to do the work I enjoy for a very long time.

[bed_of_nails]

You want to create porn and race cars.

You are a joke.

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

What's wrong with that?

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 02:29 AM
You want to create porn and race cars.

You are a joke.
And your an anti-revolutionary.

Your trying to stop the natural progression of me gravating to the work I want to do. Your trying to stop the natural progression of communism to allow me to control my own labor.

Death to the anti-revolutionaries.

[bed_of_nails]

But you arent making the world a better place, so I really wouldnt concider that work.

You arent producing something that makes the world conciderably more enjoyable, or better.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 03:46 AM
But you arent making the world a better place, so I really wouldnt concider that work.

You arent producing something that makes the world conciderably more enjoyable, or better.
Who says so? and by what standard? Yours?

Certainly not by my standard. That is quite hypocritical from a Chipendale's dancer.

What is better than entertainment, which is EXACTLY what I provide. Not only entertainment, but it is an enttertainment which is consumed by horney people. So I'm GIVING into the collective.

[bed_of_nails]

I give up trying to reason with you. You are obstinant.

[Raisa]

I agree with what redstar believes about people not wanting to retire completely. Alot of older people still like to have something to do for the world. And in communism work is different, mostly there is less work to be done...because more people are doing real work and not pointless rediculous jobs made by capitalism like selling frisbees in a kiosk at the mall. So more people doing real work that is imporatant to society makes less work for everyone .

I think that by the time someone is too old to really do any real work then that is it for them, the wrest of their life should be honored and they should be taken care of when they cant work anymore. Eventually old people cant do it anymore alot of the time, and I think by the time you cant do it anymore you have the right to sit on your ass and do nothing! You gave your part, and that is how society should say thank you. Retirement should be a right and it is a real possibility,especially in a communist society that puts all the people first.

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

With all due respect, if Ahhh_Money wants to race cars and make porn after the revolution, and he can find a collective that supports it, then I'm all for it.

It really bugs me how some of the folk on this forum have an automatic negative reaction to everything that comes out of a capitalist mouth. Attack the problem, not the fucking person.

Of course, we're loosing the topic at hand - retirement - but I think Redstar covered it rather well.

So, cappie-friend, knowing what you do about retirement, and the posibility of a life of directing porn and racing cars - does yrself intrest make you say "Hell yes!" to communism yet? ;)

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by Virgin Molotov [email protected] 12 2005, 04:44 AM
With all due respect, if Ahhh_Money wants to race cars and make porn after the revolution, and he can find a collective that supports it, then I'm all for it.

It really bugs me how some of the folk on this forum have an automatic negative reaction to everything that comes out of a capitalist mouth. Attack the problem, not the fucking person.

Of course, we're loosing the topic at hand - retirement - but I think Redstar covered it rather well.

So, cappie-friend, knowing what you do about retirement, and the posibility of a life of directing porn and racing cars - does yrself intrest make you say "Hell yes!" to communism yet? ;)
Sure. Not only a hell yes, but a big hoe down hell YES.

I got one issue.

Take ME. Multiply that a million times. You got a problem, eh?

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 04:00 AM
I give up trying to reason with you. You are obstinant.
Oh common work with me. Your almost there.

Do you identify somehow with Chipendale's?

Then what makes YOUR world view of sexuality OK and not mine in regards to contributions to the collective?

[The Garbage Disposal Unit]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 05:03 AM
Take ME. Multiply that a million times. You got a problem, eh?
Well, you're not much of an individualist, are you?

That said, communism opens up the means of education to the population at large . . . and most well-educated folk aren't particularly interested in porn or race-cars.

[Taiga]

Retirement sucks. If a person is doing his favourite job, he will never want to quit it and become a TV-watching plant. Unless he is too sick (thing that really enrages me about getting old).
In my country people wait for retirement like for death. It's impossible to live on 10-30 USD/month, and you can't find a job. They have no personal savings and investments because the majority of their life (or the whole life) was during the USSR time. There was a plenty of bad things in the Soviet times, but old people were never begging. :angry:

[Felicia]

I hardly call 55 (the age of early retirement in canada) old and feeble! :lol:

and on an added note, you can retire from the military after serving 20-25 years. if you join up at 18, you could be retiring by the age of 53 or before.

Jesus fuck, all these "old" farts, what productive use could they ever serve?


The way I see it is, in a communistic society working or not working, you're making a certain (atleast) guaranteed amount of money, a living wage and up (depending on job). if I'm a street cleaner and I make 60 pesos a month cleaning 60 downtown streets, and I as I age I can't push a broom like I used to and I'm cleanin 30 streets a month, I'm not going to make any less money and still performing a productive service to society.

Pardon my terrible anaogy (who cleans streets with brooms?) but I believe that the point remains the same.

To me, I don't see the point of retireing unless I'm physically incapable of performing my job. Right now I do a fair share of physical labour, I can't imagine performing the same job when I'm 40 and have 3 kids, it would just be too difficult. I'd just find something that's more sutible to my changing capabilities.

Most people are capable of performing more than one type of job. Change is the spice of life!

[OleMarxco]

Originally posted by Virgin Molotov Cocktail+May 12 2005, 05:23 AM--> (Virgin Molotov Cocktail @ May 12 2005, 05:23 AM)
[email protected] 12 2005, 05:03 AM
Take ME. Multiply that a million times. You got a problem, eh?
Well, you're not much of an individualist, are you?

That said, communism opens up the means of education to the population at large . . . and most well-educated folk aren't particularly interested in porn or race-cars. [/b]
If a million people want to race cars and make pornography.....They can just go ahead and do so! I don't get it, what's the problem. They'll create a commune for car-racing and porn-making. What's the big deal, it's not impossible, but of course, they'd understand that racing cars and makin' porn don't feed no mouths much - So it'd be inefficent for all those do so but they'd realize that, and you don't need a milion people racing cars and making pornography. So it'd just be an artifical voluntary spare-time doing, but they'd have to have -some- kind of jobs, atleast - And only "pornography-making" qualifies as that, but it's enough with, say, a 1000 people doing so and racing cars at their spare time, we don't need that much porn but it's up for the community to decide what to work about and what's needed :P

As for retirement - There would be no need for "retirement". They could just shift and move to whatever job they want, thus "grading down" to a "softer" job when they get older, until they can't work no more and then just quit working all togheter. The system is fluid and formless, so people are free to tune in, drop out, slide away as they please. The distrubutions they get will change according to their contributions. If they don't contribute...well, then they will get the minimum to survive. The one who decides that, is well, you and the commune togheter.

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 04:05 PM
My retirement is going to be a combo of my personal saving and investment, plus government assistance, plus corporate benefits. At some point in time I decide for myself if I have the sufficient funds to end my career and retire. That is my plan, that is a pretty simplified typical US plan.

How do I retire under a communist system?
I plan on using my social security to pay my electric bill, since that's about all I'm going to get.

:lol:

My wife and I realized that by putting away just 5% of our income until we retire, we'll have a cool $6 mil in the bank.

gotta love that compound interest.

:D

[RedAnarchist]

Sure &#036;3 million each will be enough? <_<

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12 2005, 12:42 PM
Sure &#036;3 million each will be enough? <_<
Well, when considering present value, I think it works out to more like &#036;1.5 million per in today&#39;s dollars. Or something like that.

It may not be enough to do everything I plan on doing.

:)

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by Virgin Molotov Cocktail+May 12 2005, 05:23 AM--> (Virgin Molotov Cocktail @ May 12 2005, 05:23 AM)
[email protected] 12 2005, 05:03 AM
Take ME. Multiply that a million times. You got a problem, eh?
Well, you&#39;re not much of an individualist, are you?

That said, communism opens up the means of education to the population at large . . . and most well-educated folk aren&#39;t particularly interested in porn or race-cars. [/b]
Most educated and enlighten folks not interested in porn and race cars?

Are you sure?

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

I think I&#39;ll be semi-retired at about 40 years old. Then I&#39;ll find something else to do. I have been curious about painting, juggling, and magic. I want to be a street performer. Somehow that kind of occupation has fascinated me. I&#39;d like to do that part time after a few years. I really really don&#39;t want to do my capitalist job. Although I make tons of money, I have to work 24/7, I maintain communication systems; you know voice, data, landline, satellite, and microwave. I have to be available basically 24/7. Everyone hates it because it is very hard and difficult to do. Long hours, random shifts, and very difficult technical problems. I&#39;d rather be a street performer. Lots of my co-workers rather be fishermen, hunters, teachers, and one of them even wants to be female impersonator. I think it would be better if me and my co-workers gravitated toward things we wanted to do.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by t_wolves_fan+May 12 2005, 12:26 PM--> (t_wolves_fan @ May 12 2005, 12:26 PM)
[email protected] 11 2005, 04:05 PM
My retirement is going to be a combo of my personal saving and investment, plus government assistance, plus corporate benefits. At some point in time I decide for myself if I have the sufficient funds to end my career and retire. That is my plan, that is a pretty simplified typical US plan.

How do I retire under a communist system?
I plan on using my social security to pay my electric bill, since that&#39;s about all I&#39;m going to get.

:lol:

My wife and I realized that by putting away just 5% of our income until we retire, we&#39;ll have a cool &#036;6 mil in the bank.

gotta love that compound interest.

:D [/b]
Geeeeze stop trolling and stay on the topic.

[ahhh_money_is_comfort]

Originally posted by OleMarxco+May 12 2005, 08:16 AM--> (OleMarxco @ May 12 2005, 08:16 AM)
Originally posted by Virgin Molotov [email protected] 12 2005, 05:23 AM

[email protected] 12 2005, 05:03 AM
Take ME. Multiply that a million times. You got a problem, eh?
Well, you&#39;re not much of an individualist, are you?

That said, communism opens up the means of education to the population at large . . . and most well-educated folk aren&#39;t particularly interested in porn or race-cars.
If a million people want to race cars and make pornography.....They can just go ahead and do so&#33; I don&#39;t get it, what&#39;s the problem. They&#39;ll create a commune for car-racing and porn-making. What&#39;s the big deal, it&#39;s not impossible, but of course, they&#39;d understand that racing cars and makin&#39; porn don&#39;t feed no mouths much - So it&#39;d be inefficent for all those do so but they&#39;d realize that, and you don&#39;t need a milion people racing cars and making pornography. So it&#39;d just be an artifical voluntary spare-time doing, but they&#39;d have to have -some- kind of jobs, atleast - And only "pornography-making" qualifies as that, but it&#39;s enough with, say, a 1000 people doing so and racing cars at their spare time, we don&#39;t need that much porn but it&#39;s up for the community to decide what to work about and what&#39;s needed :P

As for retirement - There would be no need for "retirement". They could just shift and move to whatever job they want, thus "grading down" to a "softer" job when they get older, until they can&#39;t work no more and then just quit working all togheter. The system is fluid and formless, so people are free to tune in, drop out, slide away as they please. The distrubutions they get will change according to their contributions. If they don&#39;t contribute...well, then they will get the minimum to survive. The one who decides that, is well, you and the commune togheter. [/b]
What if the people who are forced to only exist with the bare minium are not happy with it?

Can we start a revolution?