Latin America going to the left

[fernando]

This has been bugging me for some time now, since Im living in Europe and am surrounded by right wing capitalists who see the new governments in Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay as communist and bound to fail.

Ive been trying to gather knowledge about this subject, the situation in Latin America currently, and for some reason Im really optimistic, our countries are working more together, 'socialist' governments are rising. But what can those of us who do not live in Latin America (Europe and the US) do to help?

[Scottish_Militant]

Get involved ;)

http://www.handsoffvenezuela.org/

[patria grande]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 01:20 PM
This has been bugging me for some time now, since Im living in Europe and am surrounded by right wing capitalists who see the new governments in Venezuela, Brazil, Argentina, Paraguay as communist and bound to fail.
Here in Latin America, things aren't different.
We also have to deal with right wing capitalists
and the lies mainstream media is continuosly
spreading.

What can you do?
GET INFORMED AND SHARE YOUR KNOWLEDGE

Have you ever heard about TELESUR?

If you don't, it's a project of satellite
television planned by the governments of Venezuela,
Brazil, Argentina and Uruguay (not Paraguay).
The idea is to have our own voice. You will be
able to see our reality the way it is.
Any latin american country will be able to
participate will documentaries, movies...
The project is almost ready and we will see
results very soon!!!!! :D

[Colombia]

Can't Telesur become bias if any latin american country can participate in it, including those of the right?

[patria grande]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15 2005, 01:18 AM
Can't Telesur become bias if any latin american country can participate in it, including those of the right?
I really don't know how the final product will be. I'm just expecting for an alternative voice that will tell the other part of the story, the part usually hidden by mainstream media. :)

[Andrei Kuznetsov]

Committee to Support the Revolution in Peru:
http://www.csrpus.org/

Un Mundo Que Ganar magazine:
http://www.awtw.org/spanish/index.htm

Alborada Comunista- voice of the Grupo Comunista Revolucionario de Colombia:
http://ac-gcr.org/

World People's Resistance Movement Spanish page:
http://www.wprm.org/es/index.html

[Latin America]

:D

[Phalanx]

Move there!

[fernando]

Move there? A person who has just finished high school, not a big bank account I would move there and then? the system there is still capitalist, I would just be an uneducated fool trying to survive there.

@Andrei Mazenov: i read that thing about the revolution in Peru, does the MRTA still exist, I only found a Spanish site and my Spanish isnt that good yet :(

[enigma2517]

I think it'll be interesting to see how this all works out. And no I wouldn't suggest moving there. Fernando is absolutely correct. All the left leaning countries are still capitalist. I'm skeptic of people like Chavez claiming to "build socialism", especially out of reforms. On the other hand he does have the support of a lot of the working class. We will see.

But if you're looking to support the revolution but there have been no revolutionary acts so far (i.e. reforms) then I wouldn't quite jump the gun. Regardless it is still a stand against Western imperialism and it will be very interesting to see how this whole thing works out.

[kirov78]

It is essential for people to know our goals and our philosophy.

I suggest the marxist.org website and specifically the Trotsky section:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/trotsky/

Of course, comrade Lenin has some brilliant intellectual support:

http://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/index.htm

[fernando]

I always liked Trosky for some reason, havent really studied his works but from the 'propaganda' we got during history classes he seemed to be Lenin's "favorite" (take this truly with a pinch of salt...is that even the right expression?) And more true to the international revolution.

I'll read the stuff through :)

But do you think that Trotsky, Lenin, Mao and even Marx' writings would fit with our current era and situation? I mean do you think Marx' and Engel's work is outdated in the 21st century?

[kirov78]

Well, in the United States, I think it would be risky to say this, but I think Trotsky is more relevent now than ever, with world wide war either happening or on the brink....

[OleMarxco]

And what about Stalin? You said you were promoting him to. As for the "world wide revolution" of his (Trotsky), it's boundly-less ignorant of the truth. It can't happen all at once, internationa revolution? It's not that of a clockwork. One country at a time! And starts in the Third-World, where the PEOPLE NEEDST it....!

As for all'o'ris, fuckin' naggin' of "how we are to help", here you fookin' are; We could always lend away some money and resources to Latin American guerrila-groups. For example? Firstly, an secret and anonyme donation, of course, not to be tracked down by capitalists. Perhaps even bullets and arms, if you have. So, You gotta be serious 'bout 'ris shit, and renember, the revolution is counting on YOU! :D

[fernando]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19 2005, 02:07 PM



And what about Stalin? You said you were promoting him to. As for the "world wide revolution" of his (Trotsky), it's boundly-less ignorant of the truth. It can't happen all at once, internationa revolution? It's not that of a clockwork. One country at a time! And starts in the Third-World, where the PEOPLE NEEDST it....!
Are you refering to me or to kirov about 'promoting Stalin'? An international revolution could still go one country at a time, or several countries at a time, and of course it starts in the Third World, no Western nation is interested in a revolution.


As for all'o'ris, fuckin' naggin' of "how we are to help", here you fookin' are; We could always lend away some money and resources to Latin American guerrila-groups. For example? Firstly, an secret and anonyme donation, of course, not to be tracked down by capitalists. Perhaps even bullets and arms, if you have. So, You gotta be serious 'bout 'ris shit, and renember, the revolution is counting on YOU! :D
Hmm...I dont make enough money to make even the smallest donation to any of these movements (of which some are quite questionable).
And why the weird spelling all of a sudden? <_<

[Super Mario Conspiracy]

... and of course it starts in the Third World, no Western nation is interested in a revolution.

It is true that no Western nation wants a revolution. But we have to understand what will happen under any revolutionary circumstances. Remember what happened in Chile when they turned socialist? The West installed Pinochett there.

I agree that the Third World would benefit enormously by changing system, but the West will have a "new enemy". If the "problem" escalates (that is, if more countries join that revolution), the US will step in and try to change the situation. They have the weapons, the tech, and the power. A Third World country does not.

I believe the reason for the US not doing anything (drastical) against Cuba is because Cuba is the last remaining "authorian-socialist" system left in the world. Other countries that are not friendly to the US have other systems (fascism in North Korea, Islamic dictatorship in Saudi Arabia and Iran, "undemocratic relations" in others).

If the US really wanted, they could crush Cuba. Cuba is simply too unimportant.

[fernando]

This would mean the US would also have to crush Venezuela and the other Latin American nations which are turning socialist. We need to get a stronger support in those countries, perhaps even arm ourselves against the US.

Another thing a friend of mine discussed the other day was &#39;creating instability in the imperialist nations so that the Third World can create its revolution&#39; I dont know about the idea of creating instability here in Europe, I think it would rather get the EU and US to attack Latin America

[Super Mario Conspiracy]

This would mean the US would also have to crush Venezuela and the other Latin American nations which are turning socialist.

Exactly. Probably the best opportunity for a revolution is during a time such as a depression or economic hardness (in the West). One way to look at it is that people involved in "revolutionary ready" countries (countries that are ready for a revolution, or moving to the left) will realize the stupidness of the global chaos economy that will control their lives even during a depression - thus a strong reason for revolution.

Who else will pay for the invasion otherwise? The local bases? The supplies, weapons, training and "peacekeeping" after the "war"?


We need to get a stronger support in those countries, perhaps even arm ourselves against the US.

Well, it is hard if one is living in Europe - the real battle (if any) will be in those countries of the revolution. The EU and US will only have the battle in the media. Maybe protests too...


Another thing a friend of mine discussed the other day was &#39;creating instability in the imperialist nations so that the Third World can create its revolution&#39; I dont know about the idea of creating instability here in Europe, I think it would rather get the EU and US to attack Latin America.

How do you mean by creating instabillity? I can think of one way, and that is to get people to question the world they live in (thus, economic depression), to let people think: "How can mere coins and bills dictate how we live?".

[fernando]

Exactly. Probably the best opportunity for a revolution is during a time such as a depression or economic hardness (in the West). One way to look at it is that people involved in "revolutionary ready" countries (countries that are ready for a revolution, or moving to the left) will realize the stupidness of the global chaos economy that will control their lives even during a depression - thus a strong reason for revolution.

Who else will pay for the invasion otherwise? The local bases? The supplies, weapons, training and "peacekeeping" after the "war"?
A revolution when the enemy is weak...the US still crushed the leftists in Latin America during the Vietnam War and the sort of crisis in that time, during the 80s there was another crisis IIRC, yet the US was still able to support the Contras.
If we want a radical revolution (non democratic) it would be very difficult, nowadays however a democratic revolution is easier, the Cold War policy cannot be used, Europe might even resist, other Latin American nations as well.


Well, it is hard if one is living in Europe - the real battle (if any) will be in those countries of the revolution. The EU and US will only have the battle in the media. Maybe protests too...

I meant to say that these countries should arm themselves, be prepared for guerilla wars. History shows that the Americans will only stop if you kill enough of them and publicly show it (Vietnam)


How do you mean by creating instabillity? I can think of one way, and that is to get people to question the world they live in (thus, economic depression), to let people think: "How can mere coins and bills dictate how we live?".
I personally dont think his (my friend&#39;s) definition of "creating instabilty" is the best thing, he suggested that attacks should happen inside Europe and the US, basicly terrorism in the Western World so that they are too busy back home while the Third World can create its revolution. How this isnt the right method I think, as soon as the imperialists find out this link they will surely attack countries like Venezuela and Cuba without mercy