Hey, I'm a Capitalist is that ok?

[jiujitsu]

Hi, I'm a Capitalist from the United States of America. I came here to learn about Communism and the Great Che. I think I'm in the correct place, but I'm not sure.

I Google Image Searched "che" and found my avatar. I think he's eating ice cream.. I don't know it's weird. It was the only one that would fit, though.

My priest and my congressman told me that Communism was bad, so I wanted to see what it was all about. Maybe it's not as evil as they say?

Should I pirate Motorcycle Diaries? I think that is supposed to have Che in it or something.

Will you all teach me the ways of Communism please? Much help would be appreciated.

Thank you! =D

[encephalon]

You will likely be restricted to posting in opposing ideologies, but you can still ask any questions you'd like there. You would also still be able to read anything in other parts of the forum, just not post.

[Paradox]

Should I pirate Motorcycle Diaries? I think that is supposed to have Che in it or something.

Yes, the Motorcycle Diaries is about Che. But it's about his journey through South America with his friend Alberto, which happened before he became a revolutionary. Good movie though, worth checking out.


My priest and my congressman told me that Communism was bad, so I wanted to see what it was all about. Maybe it's not as evil as they say?

Communism is not bad, and contrary to what your priest and congressman tell you, it is not dictatorship. Communism has not even existed yet. The USSR, China, Cuba, etc., were not and are not Communist.

[Paradox]

Read this introduction:

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=26804

Once you're done with this you can ask us to explain things further if you like.

[codyvo]

Hello, you shouldn't be so quick to say you are a capitalist if you don't even know what communism is about, but I guess that's why you came here. Anyways if you are looking for the modern-adapted ideas of communism then check out the politics section, you'll see lots of differant communist ideas that apply to todays political issues. If you are trying to learn about Marx, Engels and the historical aspect of communism then check out the history section. Anyways I don't think you should be banned if you haven't quite made up your mind yet, we here at revleft should work on persuading people to become communist rather than deterring those who have differant beliefs than us.

[Paradox]

Anyways I don't think you should be banned if you haven't quite made up your mind yet

No one said he would be banned. It was said that he would probably be restricted to the OI, because he said he's a capitalist. Obviously however, because of his apparent admiration for Che and eagerness to learn what Communism is, it seems he is a bit confused as to where he is ideologically. If he were to decide that Communism wasn't his thing once we've told him what it really is, then he'd be restricted. He'd have to be openly racist, homophobic, etc., in order to be banned.


we here at revleft should work on persuading people to become communist rather than deterring those who have differant beliefs than us.

How are we not doing that now? That's what the OI is for, to debate with those who oppose our stance. We answer their questions, show them that Communism is not what they were told in school or by the media. We try to educate them on what it is we believe in. If they don't agree with it and think it's pointless after we explain it to them, what else can we do? You make it sound as if we don't try at all. I don't think that's how you meant it, but that's how it sounded.

[Zingu]

Hey, lets not be so fast on the restricting comrades...after all, many revolutionaries like Che and V.I Lenin were burgeoisie before they became revolutionaries! :)

Since he had an open enough to want to know what it is about; give him a chance, if he objects, then restrict him. We can't go around restricting based solely on what social class you belong too, there are plenty of burgoeisie individuals who probably never had heard of Communist thought or theory.

[Zingu]

You said you where a capitalist, be wary, we are being very picky in terms.

As a capitalist, this means you own property that produces capital; to operate the means of production on this peice of property, you hire workers for wages to use their labor power to operate the machinery or do whatever work your buisness is in the field of doing.
As the workers do the work, you take all the profits and pay them a small amount of wages that is only a fraction of the profit you make.


Is this true in any way?

[codyvo]

Hey Paradox, sorry if it comes off sounding like I disrespect you or the site I just misunderstood some of the posts about him and stuff, no offense to anyone.

[Latin America]

In the United Stated everyone sees the left as "Bad" or "Evil" they brainwash kids in school big time! and Media does the job to their parents!! First of all you need to know what it is, read about it.

[hamperleft]

[My priest and my congressman told me that Communism was bad,]
don't let your preist and congress man be your only source of information, well thats probably why you came here, be sure that you are open to other ideas other than capitalism.

[TheMachine]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 12:24 AM


I Google Image Searched "che" and found my avatar. I think he's eating ice cream.. I don't know it's weird. It was the only one that would fit, though.


Thats not Ice Cream, I have never known ice cream to look like liquid.

[jiujitsu]

You said that the USSR wasn't communist then what is it? Why is it always referred to as being communist? Did Josef Stalin and Che believe in the same things? What is the difference between them?

The Soviets were going to nuke everyone and the USA wanted to stop them because of the free economy. Did communism make them so violent or was that just because Russia is full of alcoholics?

What then would the benefits of communism be over capitalism? Does communism always lead to violence? The Chinese are a violent nation and they stand for communism. I was told they drink too much rice beer over there. They also shoot people in the head for praying, my mom said. Why don't communists like religion?

Oh, do communists prefer a specific flavor of ice cream? My avatar makes me think that ice cream has something to do with it. What is the communist policy towards supremecists? Do they kill them all? Are communists themselves supremecists in a way?

Why is Denmark trying to weaken the Polish economy and government? Are they trying to get it ready for invasion so they can make Poland communist like the USSR tried to do? I also heard Denmark puts kids in a sweat shop. Why do the communists there do that?

Thank you for answering questions. My mom home schools me and only lets me on the internet for 30 minutes a day. She says it is full of sin and temptation. This is the only way I can learn other than what she tells me. And my priest and congressman too.

[jiujitsu]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10 2005, 10:35 PM
Thats not Ice Cream, I have never known ice cream to look like liquid.
Oh, do you know what it is? It doesn't make sense to me.

[redstar2000]

My mom home schools me and only lets me on the internet for 30 minutes a day. She says it is full of sin and temptation.

I am not going to restrict this poor kid...he already sounds like he's in prison. :o

Jiujitsu, is there any way you can get to a public library? They often provide free internet access.

Can you get out of your house at all? Perhaps you could find an internet cafe -- though it is costly.

The internet is "full of sin and temptation"...and you need to grab as much of that as you can!

You're going to find a whole universe that you didn't know existed...and it will be light-years beyond anything your mother has "schooled" you about.

I hope you will stick around for a long time.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[hamperleft]

yea, dude, that is deffinaltly not ice cream, u might want to find out what that is.

[STI]

You said that the USSR wasn't communist then what is it? Why is it always referred to as being communist?

The USSR was state-monopoly capitalism. Not the same as what we have now, but not all that different either. It's being referred to as "communist" to turn people off of the idea of communism before it turns them on.


Oh, do you know what it is? It doesn't make sense to me.

It's semen. Cum. Jizz.


Did Josef Stalin and Che believe in the same things?

Well, it's true that both Stalin and Che believed they were doing what was necessary to achieve a classless, stateless society, but that doesn't mean we have to agree that thier methods were all that effective.

Stalin's business was dealing with a nation which was already established and was taking part in its own imperialist adventures. Che's work was mainly in carrying out revolutions in small nations dominated by foreign imperialists.


The Soviets were going to nuke everyone and the USA wanted to stop them because of the free economy. Did communism make them so violent or was that just because Russia is full of alcoholics?

Well, neither is true, actually. The USA has been just as violent as the USSR, if not moreso. It could be argued, too, that neither side "really wanted to" start nuclear war, but both felt as though the other did.


What then would the benefits of communism be over capitalism?

The benefits only exist for the working class. In communism (a classless, governmentless society, remember), the working class will be free from the exploitation and dehumanization they face daily in capitalism.


Does communism always lead to violence?

Well, capitalism is "very nice" for the ruling class, so they'll definately use violence to defend it. This will require a violent response from the working class. Even after capitalism is overthrown, they'll try to re-establish capitalism, so they'll have to be violently surpressed.


The Chinese are a violent nation and they stand for communism


No.


Why is Denmark trying to weaken the Polish economy and government? Are they trying to get it ready for invasion so they can make Poland communist like the USSR tried to do? I also heard Denmark puts kids in a sweat shop. Why do the communists there do that?

Denmark is neither communist nor State-Monopoly Capitalist. They're a capitalist society with some significant social democratic influences.

And I'm not sure that Denmark would even be able to take over Poland.

And I've never heard anything about Danish sweatshops. I wouldn't put it past the ruling class, I just havn't ever heard anything like that before.


This is the only way I can learn other than what she tells me. And my priest and congressman too.

The priest and the congressman are liars. Your mom might just be mistaken, but I doubt it.

[encephalon]

You said that the USSR wasn't communist then what is it? Why is it always referred to as being communist? Did Josef Stalin and Che believe in the same things? What is the difference between them?

there are many different kinds of communists. Although this is far from complete (and in some cases might be inaccurate.. it's a work in progress), you might be able to find the very basics of the difference between che and stalin here:

redisms (http://www.redapollo.org/redisms.shtml)




What then would the benefits of communism be over capitalism? Does communism always lead to violence? The Chinese are a violent nation and they stand for communism. I was told they drink too much rice beer over there. They also shoot people in the head for praying, my mom said. Why don't communists like religion?

Your mother seems very ignorant of world events. Don't take offense to that, she's just entirely wrong.

Many communists are against organized religion because it is a form of indoctrination that allows rulers to control the masses. Generally, we think the masses need to control themselves.

As for rice beer.. that's just a terribly ignorant thing to accuse an entire country of. The people there aren't terribly different than the people everywhere. They're people.


Oh, do communists prefer a specific flavor of ice cream? My avatar makes me think that ice cream has something to do with it. What is the communist policy towards supremecists? Do they kill them all? Are communists themselves supremecists in a way?

communists are not supremecists. We abhor all forms of racism, sexism, etc.

And that isn't ice cream. Change your avatar.


Why is Denmark trying to weaken the Polish economy and government? Are they trying to get it ready for invasion so they can make Poland communist like the USSR tried to do? I also heard Denmark puts kids in a sweat shop. Why do the communists there do that?

Denmkark is capitalist. Not sure how you got the idea they weren't. They've also higher living standards than the united states. If they have sweat shops, it's unlikely any more than the US has.


Thank you for answering questions. My mom home schools me and only lets me on the internet for 30 minutes a day. She says it is full of sin and temptation. This is the only way I can learn other than what she tells me. And my priest and congressman too.

sounds like how my mom was. does she burn books you bring home that she doesn't like, too? Sinful ones? Mine did.

Don't listen to any of them.

[Don't Change Your Name]

troll!

[redstar2000]

Well, well, well.

It seems that "jiujutsu" has been playing a little game with us.

The following was forwarded to me from this site...

http://www.duckandcover.cx/forums/

jiujutsu: "Yes, they took the bait. All of it. I have no idea what to do now...."

St.Toxic: "They want you to ask questions, so ask questions.

1) Ask them to mark out the differences between Che and fx. Adolf Hitler or Queen Elizabeth.

2) Ask about the benefits of communism, and try to bring out as much silly, incoherent examples as possible, ala; 'Soviet had the nukes and were ready to blast off, while USA were all peacefull because of the free economy.' Then post "I don't believe you" 5 times when you get the answer.

3) Ask what flavour of ice cream communists prefer, and the follow up with a double question about politics.

4) Make up a country ( or use Denmark ) that uses an utopian communistic regime, tell lies about it and ask the commies to justify their behaviour.

Pray tell when you've checked this list off. icon_drunk"

jiujutsu: "I posted again guided by St. Toxic's suggestions."

Fooling other members is not nice. Fooling an administrator is toxic!

Restricted to Opposing Ideologies.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[Artkill]

It was an honor.

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 02:42 AM
You said that the USSR wasn't communist then what is it? Why is it always referred to as being communist? Did Josef Stalin and Che believe in the same things? What is the difference between them?

The Soviets were going to nuke everyone and the USA wanted to stop them because of the free economy. Did communism make them so violent or was that just because Russia is full of alcoholics?

What then would the benefits of communism be over capitalism? Does communism always lead to violence? The Chinese are a violent nation and they stand for communism. I was told they drink too much rice beer over there. They also shoot people in the head for praying, my mom said. Why don't communists like religion?

Oh, do communists prefer a specific flavor of ice cream? My avatar makes me think that ice cream has something to do with it. What is the communist policy towards supremecists? Do they kill them all? Are communists themselves supremecists in a way?

Why is Denmark trying to weaken the Polish economy and government? Are they trying to get it ready for invasion so they can make Poland communist like the USSR tried to do? I also heard Denmark puts kids in a sweat shop. Why do the communists there do that?

Thank you for answering questions. My mom home schools me and only lets me on the internet for 30 minutes a day. She says it is full of sin and temptation. This is the only way I can learn other than what she tells me. And my priest and congressman too.
You forgot to ask:

1) Ask them to mark out the differences between Che and fx. Adolf Hitler or Queen Elizabeth.

Thank you and good night

[OleMarxco]

Wow. From the duck and cover forums? That's a forum for the Fallout games which I love. I'm disappointed to see that my fellow fallout-players should attempt to move against us Communists, as the Fallout (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_%28computer_game%29)-games themselves take a very anti-Capitalistic point of view! But how did you find out about this, Red Star? ;)

[KrazyRabidSheep]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 07:14 PM
Wow. From the duck and cover forums? That's a forum for the Fallout games which I love. I'm disappointed to see that my fellow fallout-players should attempt to move against us Communists, as the Fallout-games themselves take a very anti-Capitalistic point of view! But how did you find out about this, Red Star? ;)
He's just a genius I guess

[Artkill]

I informed him.

[Che1990]

What's this about Communists opposing religion? Fuck I'm a christian, I just don't believe religion should be used to segregate and control different people.

[bunk]

so you believe in going to heaven :rolleyes: ?

[Che1990]

Well yeah if you deserve to.

[OleMarxco]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11 2005, 10:04 PM
I informed him.
But why? And even more importantly, HOW? By PM? By SMS? My MMS? By mail? Not in this thread fairly, are you a Fallout (http://www.en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout)-Fan? From the Duck n' Cover forums? Or who ARE you actually? Did you come here just to turn this "spy" in, to reveal the scandal? Assuming then that you KNEW her and her plans, then you might also be a with-guilthy. Or perhaps they just happen to do the same fault as "Encrypted Soldier" (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=32834) when making huge plans of hacktivism....creating a public thread for it, and you just "happened" to snap up the plans and went to go here in a sense of moralistic doing, risking your "affiliation" in the gang, to foil the nefarious schemes to torment us with annoying questions!? AHH! All this and more in the next issue of.....The threath of Fallout!

[monkeydust]

I'd have just gone for an outright ban.

I knew it was a piss-take from the moment the guy said "was it communism's fault that the USSR was gonna nuke us or were the Russians just all drunk?"

[Black Dagger]

Fuck I'm a christian,

Lord have mercy! I'm sorry to hear that :P



I just don't believe religion should be used to segregate and control different people.

Neither do i, but then again i don't 'believe' in religion either!

"Nowhere in the bible is there an acknowledgement that human beings have inherent rights to life, liberty, happiness, dignity, fairness, or self-government. In the bible, humans are sinners, worms, and slaves (figuratively and literally, as it condones slavery). God has all the rights, humanity is nothing.

This is unsurprisingly, given the nature of religion. Bakunin put it best:

"The idea of God implies the abdication of human reason and justice; it is the most decisive negation of human liberty, and necessarily ends in the enslavement of mankind, both in theory and in practice.

"Unless, then, we desire the enslavement and degradation of mankind . . . we may not, must not make the slightest concession either to the God of theology or to the God of metaphysics. He who, in this mystical alphabet, begins with A will inevitably end with Z; he who desires to worship God must harbour no childish illusions about the matter, but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity.

"If God is, man is a slave; now, man can and must be free; then, God does not exist." [God and the State, p. 25]

For most anarchists/marxists, then, atheism is required due to the nature of religion. "To proclaim as divine all that is grand, just, noble, and beautiful in humanity," Bakunin argued, "is to tacitly admit that humanity of itself would have been unable to produce it -- that is, that, abandoned to itself, its own nature is miserable, iniquitous, base, and ugly. Thus we come back to the essence of all religion -- in other words, to the disparagement of humanity for the greater glory of divinity." As such, to do justice to our humanity and the potential it has, anarchists argue that we must do without the harmful myth of god and all it entails and so on behalf of "human liberty, dignity, and prosperity, we believe it our duty to recover from heaven the goods which it has stolen and return them to earth." [Op. Cit., p. 37 and p. 36]" credit to -http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1931/secA2.html#seca220


Well yeah if you deserve to.

And what basis is this judged? The 'laws' of the bible?

[workersunity]

you have much to learn

lesson one: dont listen to your pastor or congressman, both full of lies

[OleMarxco]

.....and that's funny coming FROM a pastor and congressman. Paradox, anyone? ;)

Anyways. How can a capitalist truely be "interested in the Great Che" and stuff and still be capitalistic? It doesn't add up. Makes no sense! A flaw in his lie. I was a little puzzled, and I -could've- thought it was a fraud, but I saw no reason in to being....he got himself restricted, what harm could he possible do...so I just concluded the guy was a fuckin' nut-case.

[Che1990]

Well said, but then most cappies are!

[Che1990]

ooo sorry was that a bit too controversial? hahahahaha

[OleMarxco]

No. They don't deserve our humbleness :angry:
What, dissing Capitalists in a Communistic Forum is CONTROVERSIAL?
Hell no, It's FRONT-PAGE ENCOURAGED! :D

[Artkill]

I am previously from DaC and I informed redstar through PM.

I'm the only communist from DaC and they all mock communism, so I felt it was appropriate that you all shouldn't be made a fool.

[OleMarxco]

....And now you are exiled from your Fallout-community I 'spose, for standing up and trembling at this injustice, eh? :)

[Artkill]

As if I would care, I was already an outcast at the DaC forums.

[STI]

Well, feel free to make revleft your new internet home.

[Che1990]

Yer just to let you all know I am no longer a christian. I have realised that God isn't real as if he was, why is the world so shit? Would you sit back in silence as someone destroyed something you created? No! This and many other reasons have led me to believe that religion is all bullshit and science is correct.

[OleMarxco]

Right...like anyone cares. Anyways, welcome to the club. Not like that changes anything. You're one step closer to the bottom - Personally, I believe God exists and just let's shit happens 'cuz he's a sadistic piece of fuck (Considering this is just his toy empire)! But Christians aren't the only believerers in "God", but Jehovah, there's other kinds of God(s) that need to be "killed off" :D

Me: You don't exist!
God: *poof*
Like a sky! :)