Why didn't it work?

[EricDHobo]

People who I talk to about communism always tell me it will never work. I was wondering what exactly made it crumble in the past so I could start thinking about how to fix those problems.

[Marxman]

People who you talk to are abviously some unscrupulous men who don't bother to read books for their minds. Now tell me, how can some ideology that Karl Marx has written 50000 pages, Engels 50000 pages, Lenin 100000 pages, Trotsky 10000 pages then say that communism can't work. Wow! They must be real geniuses that they can sum up all those pages in one sentence:"It can't work." I really really hate this. My advice, don't listen to them, ever. Read, read, read and you shall see that Karl Marx didn't write those pages for nothing and that the ideology of communism can work. Remember, BOOKS are the greatest weapons, not guns. Guns only shoot projectiles with a massive kinetic energy.

[mentalbunny]

You say that, and I don't disagree, but with the human race such as it is, nothing really comes out as it should, so I doubt communism, or any other ideology that actually benfits people will succeed as it should.

[Pinko]

We need to overcome greed. Using education we need to iron out the lust for personal glory and replace it with a desire for societal glory. Unfortunately the easiest and quickest way to do this is by appealing to national pride, as nationalism is close to societal pride. This in itself causes problems because nationalism has no place in communism.
I think it would take three or four generations of constant effort to implement the change needed, they say a week is a long time in politics though. Three or four generations is a huge length ot time, plenty of time for cappy-bastards to repeatedly lob spanners into the works. Over this time the govrnment in question needs to maintain popularity, so as not to get voted out (a democracy is the most legitimate and easy form of regime to make the change to communism in a non-revolutionary manner) and still be able to maintain a coherant and constant policy on the move toward socialism.
There will also have to be a conciliatory stance toward cpitalist industry for a while (if the change is not happening globaly). You cannot turn around to the county's industrial infrastructure one day and say "ours now" (all your industry are belong to us). They will spot that coming decades before it happens and just leave the country, taking their infrastructure with them. An arrangement has to be made where you either buy them all out over a few decades and allow them to operate the state owned industry until change-over, or start a massive infrastructure building drive to replace them when they leave (this has the problem of environmental damage done by the building of industrial infrastructure alongside the existing stuff).
All in all, it is a tall order. Maybe the government doesn't need to stay in power for that long, as long as there is a mutual concensus between the parties of government to work toward the same goal without much difference of opinion about the method or end. The disolution of the monetary system will need to happen at some point, the sooner the better.

Revolution involves a quick change, this has the problems that we have seen in the past in Russia, China, Cuba (before you start the flaming, their human rights record isn't great). A communist government doesn't just need a popular majority, it needs an almost total support, 95%, of its values and quiet aquiessance from four out of the other five percent. Serious dessent will cause too many problems. Where a relolutionary change occurs, you will have to implement communism in a society that is unprepared for it and likely to cling onto old values.
It is not impossible, I think if people are informed about Marxism in an honest and open manner, without a background of McCarthyist murmering, then most will come to the descision that it is the way forward. We need to be able to overcome the hysteria and misinformation that has been build around communism by people trying to stop its spread.

[Marxman]

Communism needs approximately 500 years or more to be fully implemented as a social system. First step is the most important of all - dictatorship of the proletariat (with an alliance of peasantry). Why? Because proletariat (read a full marxist definition) has got a socialist conscious in their genes, otherwise they can't become proletarians if they do not work COLLECITVELY. Their mind is collective, part of a group of thousands and even millions. Proletariat is not a class that deviates or alienates from the peasants or other groups of people but. In capitalism, the ruling class is totally alienated from the lower class as they have a conscious of a king and do not know the issues of a normal person. Dictatorship of the proletariat is the best democracy we can have in practice now. Greed, lust, gluttony all become extinct when proletariat leads the society to socialism. The point of all is also that proletariat in the dictatorship works less than in capitalism, much less. Proletariat then also deals with the problems of society as they work less and are more numerous. The means of production and the productive forces in the dictatorship of the proletariat become more and more advanced, so the collateral effecr of this is that the working hours become decreased to a minimum and still exceed the production in capitalism.

[anger is a gift]

marxman is correct. let us not forget that communism cannot and was never meant to be implemented. it is a process that takes many generations to develop. lenin missed this point early in the 20th century. there are many conditions that must be in place in order to facilitate a communist revolution. i doubt these conditions will ever exist in the US but it is possible that somewhere in the third world they are in place today. i believe that with the correct condtions and alittle effort, communism can succeed.

[Comrade Marcel]

Quote: from anger is a gift on 5:44 pm on Sep. 8, 2002
marxman is correct. let us not forget that communism cannot and was never meant to be implemented. it is a process that takes many generations to develop. lenin missed this point early in the 20th century. there are many conditions that must be in place in order to facilitate a communist revolution. i doubt these conditions will ever exist in the US but it is possible that somewhere in the third world they are in place today. i believe that with the correct condtions and alittle effort, communism can succeed.

I think you are wrong on a key point there. Revolution has to come from an industrialist advanced country, not a backwards one or else it will fail. Marx and Engels both said this.

Conditions are getting closer to ripeness in the U.S., Canada, & England for a revolution, it is peoples understanding of Marxism that needs to be addressed. If people never undestand what Marxism is they will never want it.

Also, the point about Capitlists smelling the revolution coming and moving away is a good one, but eventually where are they going to run? If you have a revolution in a 1st world country & your revolution is spreading, they can only hide for so long & they would be forced to leave their industry behind. Remeber, we don't need the actual products but the means of production i.e. the factories and machineries.

So let the capitalists flee in masses with their boxes of Nike's, We don't want them & we don't need them.

Eventually revolution would spread to every other country, but it is going to have to start either in the U.S. or somewhere in Europe like England or Germany.

[Marxman]

That's right, comrade Marcel. The ripeness for a revolution is too ripe, I'd say. The means of production are now advanced than ever, more than they should be for a socialist revolution. Proletariat is numerous throughout the world and more educated than it was in the 19th century or in the 20th century. The factors for a revolution are complete, totally. The only thing that's missing is a tendency for marxism. We need to educated more and more people to become marxists. That's the only missing link and I think that now the time will be more fruitful for communism, since stalinism is almost destroyed.

[anger is a gift]

for revolution to work in the first world especially in the US, there needs to be a sense of community. unlike many third world countries, in the US we are taught that we are all that matters and that on our own, we can accomplish anything. until we value our community over ourselves, we will not understand or welcome a revolution.

[Marxman]

Exactly. The ways of commune, the ways of socialist society. The crisis of capitalism unites us in the battle for a better way of living. The dictatorship of the proletariat teaches us how to live in a community as we have a collective teacher.

[Marxboriqua]

Personally, I think the U.S. has had the largest role in holding back Communism, since as soon as a country even has a chance of turning to it, they use their muscle to send them back to the stone age.

[trebboR]

I share that thought with you Marxboriqua, the U$A has always been interfering with communist countries.

[Dynatos]

that's the part i don't understand. what the fuck dose the American government have against communism? Communism obviously works and its obviously better than capitalism. Why don't they give it a chance?