North Korea

[viva le revolution]

What do you guys think about the north korean situation. Is the U.S justified in taking action against the Stalinist state or has their inaction against the north over nukes betrayed a double-standard?

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

In my opinion they deserve each other. I admit that's not very helpful, but suffice to say that while resistance to US hegemony is progressive in of itself, it does not prevent some very unsavoury characters from being anti-imperialist.

Think of it as NK's single redeeming feature.

[LSD]

What do you guys think about the north korean situation.

I think the DRPK is an embarassment to the world.
I think Kim Jong Il is a maniac.
I think there's very little we can do about either.


Is the U.S justified in taking action against the Stalinist state

Kim Jong Il is a lunatic.

I can't imagine many more dangerous scenarios than the DPRK with 10 or 15 TN ICBMs.

Still though, Bush is a lunatic too and he has several thousand of them...

As bizzarre and unseemly as it seems, it appears that MAD is still ticking away. Long term, however, there is very litte that any one can do about the DPRk developing nuclear weapons. By all indications they either have them already or are about to.

More importantly, in the next 50 years, a good 5 or 6 other countries will doubtlessly do so as well. Iran probably within the next ten, unless there's major "regime change".

As technology improves, it will become easier and easier, and cheaper and cheaper to build and acquire nuclear technologies. By the end of the next century, there will be very few countries on earth that won't be able to build a nuke if they want to.

...interesting world we're heading into.. :o!


Think of it as NK's single redeeming feature.

That and their sexy sexy hair (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4157121.stm)! :lol:

[986Boobop424]

The Dear Leader has inspired many people out in the world under the path of Marxism.

Meanwhile over in the peanut gallery here, people get dumber by the minute thanks to all the uninspirational garbage that gets written down on each and every one of these posts. :lol:

[ÑóẊîöʼn]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 11:12 PM
Meanwhile over in the peanut gallery here, people get dumber by the minute thanks to all the uninspirational garbage that gets written down on each and every one of these posts. :lol:
Care to validate that with evidence fuckface? Or were you simply spamming?

[El_Revolucionario]

Here are my thoughts on North Korea:
I don't know much about the Korean War, but it seems that the US wanted to keep the separation of North Korea and South Korea, instead of probably allowing them to unite together, which would've been better than the current situation.

Kim Jong Il is a crazy lunatic because he claims to be one but he is not at all, Kim Jong Il is a fascist-in-communist-clothing. I hate totalitarians who claim to be communist. He's a lunatic dictator. The only good thing about him is he is anti-bush. And hell no I don't want the US to invade ANY country.

I think North Korea and South Korea should unite together to form Korea. I don't know how such a plan would work, but that would involve somehow getting Kim Jong Il to give up his power (LOL!), maybe the people of North Korea could have a REAL revolution and set up a REAL communist/socialist state in North Korea. But I don't know if that could happen.

[El_Revolucionario]

Originally posted by [email protected] 7 2005, 11:12 PM
The Dear Leader has inspired many people out in the world under the path of Marxism.


You need to add a new word into that sentence...fake Marxism......

[Redmau5]

I like to kiss Stalin on the lips all day long.

So you're a necrophiliac ? I thought the Kremlin would have barred that sort of thing :P

[El_Revolucionario]

Originally posted by [email protected] 8 2005, 12:12 AM

I like to kiss Stalin on the lips all day long.

So you're a necrophiliac ? I thought the Kremlin would have barred that sort of thing :P
This person was either a wacko stalinist or a wacko capitalist trying to be funny. But I don't think there would be much of a difference between the two. ;)

[bolshevik butcher]

It would be terrible if North Korea got nukex becuase they might actually use them. North korea is ruled by a brutal military dictatorship.

[viva le revolution]

Apparently the people in south korea are against U.S action against the north.

[viva le revolution]

I don't think the North will use their nukes nobody is that stupid, not even the regime of Kim Jong Ill. They are probably replying to U.S muscle flexing by establishing a nuclear deterrant. In other words, the nukes are just for show.
The regime is well aware that people in the South are sympathetic towards them and are taking more of an anti-U.S stance. They are also aware that the South has more conventional military power than the north. They would not jeopardize that by bombing Seoul using nukes, not even China could then restrain the world powers from getting more aggressive towards the North.

[b14ck]

I believe that as communists, the goal of the communist movement would shift itself in North Korea. It appears that North Korea, is, in fact, a dictatorship. There is no equality, everyone is blighted with famine and drought. These conditions are the breeding grounds of communism. I propose that we continue this "standoff" between the world and North Korea until the people of Korea overthrow him on their own terms. Only then will justice be serverd without un-needed bloodshed.

[jagjkdfblfjasl;gj]

Apparently the people in south korea are against U.S action against the north.

No shit. That's because the North is a symbol of true Marxist freedom and they don't want the Yankees or pot-smoking douchebags to interfere in their lives.

[red_orchestra]

North Korea is a Stalinist state, plain and simple. I do not support Stalinism. No, "jagjkdfblfjasl;gj" North Korea is not a symbol of marxist freedom, but cold dictatorship. Marxism is defined as liberation from oppression of anykind.

[Commie Girl]

Even though Kim Jong Il is nuts, the U$ is the last country that should be doing anything....their hypocracy is nauseating..."Blah Blah, we have more nukes than anyone else, we are the only country that has used them on civilians, and noone else can have any because we are the only responsible people and every one should trust us...." :lol:

[Non-Sectarian Bastard!]

Originally posted by jagjkdfblfjasl;[email protected] 9 2005, 02:37 AM

Apparently the people in south korea are against U.S action against the north.

No shit. That's because the North is a symbol of true Marxist freedom and they don't want the Yankees or pot-smoking douchebags to interfere in their lives.
The logic of Rice: Don't give a damn about and hate Revleft, spend entire afternoon at Revleft.

[American_Trotskyist]

I fully support NK getting WMDs. I hate Stalinism, but Bush is just as worse. Look at this, Clenchfist, you are hearing capitalist propaganda and regurgitating it. Some of that is true, but the US is much worse, it has a higher percent jailed rate, killed more people, bombs indiscriminately. I hope there is a communist-democratic revolution and that the workers take power, but they are better off under Stalinism than western capitalism. Kim is probably not a manic, but another bureaucrat. North Korea is a cold dictatorship, but look at the west, is it any different? The US can point thousands of nuclear weapons at North Korea and if they as much as raise a finger of resistance they are a threat to peace? I hate Kim more than anything, but the solution isn’t the ultra leftist one where people support Imperialism’s attack.

Fuck North Korea, but fuck the United States more.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by American_Trotskyist
...but the solution isn’t the ultra leftist one where people support Imperialism’s attack.

I think we all know by now that you love to "score points" off the "ultra-left" whenever you can (or think you can).

But how about keeping it at least remotely plausible?

The "ultra-left" position is always one of opposition to "one's own" imperialists.

Just as I support the Iraqi resistance to U.S. imperialism, I would likewise support North Korean resistance for the same reason.

Anyone who supported U.S. aggression against Korea -- in 1950 or now -- would not be any kind of an "ultra-leftist".

They'd be a servile lackey of U.S. imperialism.

That should be obvious...even to you.

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[American_Trotskyist]

Ah are you still mad about that impotence thing? Ah well life’s too short for that, especially for your age.

No, many of the Ultra-Leftists ARE servile to US imperialism, but not as obvious about it. Trotskyists who are Ultra-Leftist usually think the fall of the USSR was good because they were communists, to completely throw the baby out with the bathwater. I support even the deformed states, but I support a Communist/Democratic revolution there more. Red you seem to agree with me, but are just hostile to me.

[redstar2000]

Originally posted by American_Trotskyist
No, many of the Ultra-Leftists ARE servile to US imperialism, but not as obvious about it.

WHO are you speaking of here?

Name names!

http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/123.gif

[American_Trotskyist]

[QUOTEWHO are you speaking of here?

Name names!

user posted image[/QUOTE]

People who say that North Korea, the Soviet Union and so on should have been distroyed and brought back to capitalism because they were true socialism. Clenchedfist would be one.

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 9 2005, 02:26 AM
I fully support NK getting WMDs. I hate Stalinism, but Bush is just as worse. Look at this, Clenchfist, you are hearing capitalist propaganda and regurgitating it. Some of that is true, but the US is much worse, it has a higher percent jailed rate, killed more people, bombs indiscriminately. I hope there is a communist-democratic revolution and that the workers take power, but they are better off under Stalinism than western capitalism. Kim is probably not a manic, but another bureaucrat. North Korea is a cold dictatorship, but look at the west, is it any different? The US can point thousands of nuclear weapons at North Korea and if they as much as raise a finger of resistance they are a threat to peace? I hate Kim more than anything, but the solution isn’t the ultra leftist one where people support Imperialism’s attack.

Fuck North Korea, but fuck the United States more.
AT, i want a nuclear free world, and the U$ govermnet is better than the north korean one. If it's so good why don't you go ive there and tell me about how great it is?

[Bolshevist]

AT, i want a nuclear free world, and the U$ govermnet is better than the north korean one.

Your true colors revealed!

[bolshevik butcher]

oh i'm sorry, im not a stalinist!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o just hit you?

[viva le revolution]

Looking just at the scales of influence the two wield, i would say that a North Korea with Nukes is much less harmful than an imperialist giant with them. It would act as a counter-balance to U.S aggression. Nuclear tehnology can also be used for generating power and would lighten the economic burden currently suffered by the north korean economy and people.
In this case i would support North Korea getting nuclear technology.

[Bolshevist]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 9 2005, 07:32 PM
oh i'm sorry, im not a stalinist!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :o just hit you?
When the Juche idea differs so greatly from Marxism-Leninism as it does, I do not understand why you would call DPRK Stalinist, nevertheless it is one of todays most powerful anti-US and anti-imperialist blocks. If war erupts between the DPRK and the USA it will turn into a true meat grinder for the US and it would bring the imperialist machinery to a halt. If you truly are a communist, you support DPRK's anti-imperialist and anti-US stance. But you consider the US government to be better than DPRK, a stance I find very strange. American_Trotskyte, even though he is a Trotskyite manages too see things more clearly.

[bolshevik butcher]

Hell in the event of a war i would support the nkoreans because they were defending themselves and the U$ would just put someone else in place.

[Bolshevist]

Why, when you think the US government is better than the government of DPRK?

[bolshevik butcher]

i think that because there is no opposition in norht korea, and that it is abrutal reigieme. At least in the U$ there are some freedoms. However, the U$ has no right to invade other countried and would just impose another dictatorship.

[Bolshevist]

http://www.nlg.org/korea/2003delegation_report.html

Read that if you belive such obvious lies.

[bolshevik butcher]

very interesting, but are there any oppisiton parties? Could someone stand in opposition to the party line?

[Karl Marx's Camel]

AT, i want a nuclear free world, and the U$ govermnet is better than the north korean one. If it's so good why don't you go ive there and tell me about how great it is?

If you think the US government is better than the North Korean one.. Well, I think you just decided what side you were on. If North Korea would have the military strength and will to invade and occupy the US... Would you be opposed to such a move?


Obviously, you are not a marxist. I would consider it madness to support the US over North Korea, but that's your choice. US imperialism at its present state will always (in my opinion) be worse than today's North Korea. And even if it was worse, I would support the DPRK over the US, because of the world's power-balance.





very interesting, but are there any oppisiton parties?

There are several parties in the DPRK.

According to CIA - The World Factbook:


major party - Korean Workers' Party or KWP [KIM Jong Il, general secretary]; minor parties - Chondoist Chongu Party [RYU Mi Yong, chairwoman] (under KWP control); Social Democratic Party [KIM Yong Dae, chairman] (under KWP control)

Whether the Chondoist Chongu Party or the Social Democratic Party is under control of KWP, I do not know.

But you have to remember that several parties does not equal democracy. Democracy in its essence means that the people have direct political power. Just because a nation claim to be democratic, doesn't mean it is. Words and actions does not neccesarily come together. Especially not in the world of politics.



I should have some articles on North Korea, as well as pictures. Have you ever seen any pictures of North Korea, Clenched Fist? I think you will be suprised.


edit: I thought I had saved some articles.. I was actually going to refer to the article 'Lenin i Stalin' posted. A very interesting article.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

No, many of the Ultra-Leftists ARE servile to US imperialism, but not as obvious about it.


Sadly, I will have to agree.

[Bolshevist]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 9 2005, 08:29 PM
very interesting, but are there any oppisiton parties? Could someone stand in opposition to the party line?
Democracy does not have to be parlamentarism.. I thought this was rather obvious to Marxists..

[bolshevik butcher]

no, but i mean is it possible to realistically oppose the goverment? Can you openly oppose them and greely assemble and protest? I disagree with the principles of having one all powerful leader as well.

[Guerrilla22]

The DPRK is whacked. Kim Jong Il is busy spending millions on nuclear research while his people are starving to death. At the same time developing nuclear weapons is probaly the only way to keep the US, an imperailist nation hell bent on exerting its hegemony over the rest of the world and willing to take military action to achieve this hegemony. What would you all do?

[bolshevik butcher]

The U$ cannot afford another iraq. They won't invade nkorea. i'd help the popel, like i'm meant to.

[viva le revolution]

What most people overlook is that nuclear technology has civilian uses as well. It can be used to generate power and lighten the burden on the North Korean economy and reduce it's dependance on foriegn investment.
This, plus deter any imperialist who wants to bomb the crap out of the country!

[Bolshevist]

Don't forget that nuclear weaponry in the Korean hands also mean that they can lower the military budget and put more funds into their economy.

[viva le revolution]

Exactly.

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by Lenin i [email protected] 10 2005, 07:43 PM
Don't forget that nuclear weaponry in the Korean hands also mean that they can lower the military budget and put more funds into their economy.
The Nkoreans don't have to spend as much money as they do as it is.

[viva le revolution]

Originally posted by Clenched [email protected] 10 2005, 07:58 PM

The Nkoreans don't have to spend as much money as they do as it is.
Why are they spending so much? because they are being threatened by south korea, who by itself has a much larger and more effective conventional military force, and the U.S. Once the North Koreans have the nukes then the size of the conventional forces wont matter as much and huge spending on the military will no longer be a priority.